Pool players - born or breed

Snorks said:
So, let's say a guy has taken lessons, practices correctly, plays tournaments, analyzes his stroke properly, gets professional corrections by his coach etc, etc, etc... What level do you think they can get to?

I honestly think that the part between our ears is difficult to master, but also some people for whatever reason some people will never get beyond a C level player.

Born or breed... I would argue most are born with a level that they can achieve but not surpass. Of course age and other factors come into play.

There is a 'natural' player at our pool hall. I have seen him run racks effortlessly. I mean, boom boom boom, done. He gets out of stuff that most cannot even fathom. He plays once/week, never practices, and only enters the occassional tournament which he often places in. He is a natural pool player in every sense of the word. Can other 'fighters' achieve his level.....?? I just can't see it happening.
Click to expand...
IMO.
Like everything else... born AND breed. You can't be at the top of any sport without certain physical and mental capabilities being born in, but you can't be the best in any sport without hard work no matter how gifted you are. If you got lots of natural talent and don't work you can be among the best, but not the cream of the crop. If you've mediocre talent but work very hard you can be among the best, but not the cream of the crop. If you've got natural talent and work very hard you can be the cream.
 
MUST be born with "it" and then "it" must be cultivated correctly. If you don't have "it" in your genes you'll never be able to reach the upper echelons no matter how much you fertilize and cultivate. You cannot make a rose out of a peonie or a poodle out of a beagle. It's in the genes ... or it ain't.
 
This is a good time of the year to raise this question. Several years ago a study was conducted concerning the life histories of Nobel Prize winners. An interesting set of results was found that relates to the issues raised here.

It seems that most (not all) Noble Laureates are naturally gifted in their respected scientific fields and were fortunate to study with the right people. They are genius level people. One of these people that I knew personally told me that he was asked to teach calculus as a junior in high school when his teacher was sick.

However, being gifted is not sufficient, it seems that most laureates were also fortunate in that they came from families who supported their endeavors (had money) or they made or had connections that placed them in places where their talent could shine. For instance Sir John Eccles, Nobel Laureate in Neurophysiology (the fellow I worked with), was born in Australia but attended Oxford because his parents could afford it and because his accomplishments resulted in a form of scholarship. He was fortunate and studied with Sir Charles Sherrington (another Nobel Laureate) as a graduate student. Sherrington encouraged Eccles? work, helped him develop new insights and provided a climate for growth.

With all of this training Eccles returned to Australia where he taught and conducted research for the next 25 years. He spent most of his professional life in a backwater area of the world. However, his work resulted in a Nobel Prize and recognition as one of the primary intellects of the 20th century. Eccles is one of three people who received the prize for determining how the synapse and the overall nervous system works.

The point here is that natural talent must be accompanied by the right environment to get to a truly major contributor in any field of endeavor. Currently there is a Nobel Prize winner who did not have this early environment as he lived on the streets during WW II. However, I would bet that his genius was later supported by the times he reached his teens. I do not know his whole story.

It seems to me, though I do not remember the source, that most truly great athletes had a training partner who pushed them to even greater accomplishments through stiff competition.

Apparently, a world class player needs talent and early exposure. In the arts, most of us can draw a rudimentary picture or learn to play the guitar; very few can develop the unappreciated world class talent.

Natural talent accompanied by world class training is what is needed to produce genius in any field. In psychology we distinguish between those who are gifted which is defined as unrecognized and perhaps untrained ability to perform and genius. The genius is a recognized gifted individual.

Several years ago Eccles said to me when we were discussing where I was going to graduate school and a subsequent career that he found that after one is well trained the choice was to go to a big school and ride on someone else's coat tails or go to a small school and have control of ones destiney. He chose the lattter. And based on his advise I did the same.

I think that all of this means that to be a world class player one needs to "study" with the greats players of the day and then go out on one's own -- if the player has the natural talent.
 
Last edited:
Don't Make Me Laugh

Pool players - born or breed ?

Neil sez: (It's bred, not breed)


Lol, I always thought it was bread.
Doug
( because they play for dough ) :)
 
You cant train in what God left out,

Some things come easily for one person and are impossible for the next person, we all have talants for many things, mine is telemarketing, i can talk anyone out of their last dime with ease, I became a champion telemarketer in a few months, in bodybuilding i have zero shot at being competitive and i have done all the roids, in pool i was born with little talent but can still make Jay Helfert work to beat me, but he is better. Look at Landon Soffett(hope i spelled his name right) he is shorter than his cue, well almost and he plays great, even with proper instruction some guys just cant play. I cant hit a golf ball off a tee, i have no shot at that game so i dont play it.
 
Almost every great player started young and had a lot of natural talent. Johnnyt

PS. Let me add that a big percentage of them had a father, relative, or friend that owned a poolroom and had all the free time on the tables from a very early age. Also a big percentage had a pool table at home and their father played well.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Good question. I think it is a bit of both.
Click to expand...

No question.

We've all seen natural talent wasted, and hard work and dedication NOT pay off.

Some people have it, and can't figure out how to use it, some will never have it now matter how much hard dedicated work and effort they put into it.
 
Gregg said:
No question.

We've all seen natural talent wasted, and hard work and dedication NOT pay off.

Some people have it, and can't figure out how to use it, some will never have it now matter how much hard dedicated work and effort they put into it.
Click to expand...
Exactly and that is true in all facets of life not just sports.
 
I Know What I'm Talking About.... imo

JoeW said:
This is a good time of the year to raise this question. Several years ago a study was conducted concerning the life histories of Nobel Prize winners. An interesting set of results was found that relates to the issues raised here.

It seems that most (not all) Noble Laureates are naturally gifted in their respected scientific fields and were fortunate to study with the right people. They are genius level people. One of these people that I knew personally told me that he was asked to teach calculus as a junior in high school when his teacher was sick.

However, being gifted is not sufficient, it seems that most laureates were also fortunate in that they came from families who supported their endeavors (had money) or they made or had connections that placed them in places where their talent could shine. For instance Sir John Eccles, Nobel Laureate in Neurophysiology (the fellow I worked with), was born in Australia but attended Oxford because his parents could afford it and because his accomplishments resulted in a form of scholarship. He was fortunate and studied with Sir Charles Sherrington (another Nobel Laureate) as a graduate student. Sherrington encouraged Eccles? work, helped him develop new insights and provided a climate for growth.

With all of this training Eccles returned to Australia where he taught and conducted research for the next 25 years. He spent most of his professional life in a backwater area of the world. However, his work resulted in a Nobel Prize and recognition as one of the primary intellects of the 20th century. Eccles is one of three people who received the prize for determining how the synapse and the overall nervous system works.

The point here is that natural talent must be accompanied by the right environment to get to a truly major contributor in any field of endeavor. Currently there is a Nobel Prize winner who did not have this early environment as he lived on the streets during WW II. However, I would bet that his genius was later supported by the times he reached his teens. I do not know his whole story.

It seems to me, though I do not remember the source, that most truly great athletes had a training partner who pushed them to even greater accomplishments through stiff competition.

Apparently, a world class player needs talent and early exposure. In the arts, most of us can draw a rudimentary picture or learn to play the guitar; very few can develop the unappreciated world class talent.

Natural talent accompanied by world class training is what is needed to produce genius in any field. In psychology we distinguish between those who are gifted which is defined as unrecognized and perhaps untrained ability to perform and genius. The genius is a recognized gifted individual.

Several years ago Eccles said to me when we were discussing where I was going to graduate school and a subsequent career that he found that after one is well trained the choice was to go to a big school and ride on someone else's coat tails or go to a small school and have control of ones destiney. He chose the lattter. And based on his advise I did the same.

I think that all of this means that to be a world class player one needs to "study" with the greats players of the day and then go out on one's own -- if the player has the natural talent.
Click to expand...



All quite true... and helps to come from a long line of relatives... imo
Doug
( it's in the jeans ) :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top