Pool Playing as a profession

[JoeW]

There are very few (if any) professional pool players. Most players work for a paycheck and that is not a professional’s way.

To get pool playing out from the smoking rooms and tardy reputation there is a need for a Professional Pool Players Association. In many sports there are players’ associations and it seems to me, though I know little about the subject, that they are formed more like unions.

A professional association such as the American Medical Association or the American Psychological Association is formed for different purposes and they have a significant impact on the practice of their respective disciplines. Their impact includes not only acceptable practices, but to some extent earnings, self policing, and standards. Pool players could achieve this level of development if they formed an association to further the interests of pool and billiards.

Voting membership would be restricted to players who have placed in the top three in “X” number of tournaments over the last five years, have applied for membership, and been accepted by the membership committee.

Associate (non-voting) members would be “B” level players

Supporter would be all others.

Members who do not meet the requirements for membership because of lack of winning in the last five years could become “emeritus” non-voting members.

Such an association would have committees that set standards for equipment, rules for various games, ethical conduct, public relations, archival materials, perhaps a hall of fame, and similar activities.

Over time a credible association would “recognize” tournaments that they found acceptable and would hold annual gatherings to coordinate their business and recognize their members.

Currently most of these things are under the control of tournament sponsors and anyone other than the players. The idea here is to get away from the money making goal and make pool a highly credible sport, the money will follow such an association.

A “working person” is employed for a wage or a fee. They care nothing about the process and have no real commitment to the employer. A professional does not work a 40 hour week for any employer, they work to further their profession. Do not misunderstand me, I am not demeaning those who “work” for a living, it is a very honorable life style. None-the-less there is a difference.

These thoughts are of course idealistic but they are the place to begin if pool playing is to gain respectability.

 

[Gerry]

well....in a perfect world, your ideas are sound and would be great! BUT if we go back in time to the 50's forward and sum up all the various "PRO" associations to the present I think we could learn why things did and didn't work. I can remember the PBT, and CAMEL tour as being events I was impressed with and felt were run well, but over my head at the time. They both died for different reasons, but had a structure that could lend some good to another venture. I think it's a catch 22 with Pros saying if there are events we will show up, and the promoters saying if the players show up we will put on events with both waiting for the other to jump.....some day hopefully

Gerry

 

[JoeW]

I think it's a catch 22 with Pros saying if there are events we will show up, ...
Gerry

And therein lies the rub. Players need to show up at their professional meetings because it is their "profession" Tournaments are another matter.

Initially tournament directors would not pay much attention to such an association except in an attempt to control it. This would be avoided through membership requirements. As the membership grew and matured tournament directors would use the association's guidelines to set up tournaments. Little by little the association would gain control over how pool is played because prominent members of the profession in a credible group are influential especially if they have been recognized by their peers.

Companies and those who want credability (and this would include Tournament Directors for pool) seek out the advice and guidance of recognized professional associations before they make important financial decisions. In general, professional associations do not "endorse" a product but they may allow stamps such as "certified by" or some such recognition that does not convey the impression that the association made money from the endorsement.

Companies and similar groups do contribute unrestricted gifts to an association to further its work with xyz or in some specific area, such as programs for children, standardization, etc.

 

[ShootingArts]

Sounds great but . . .

Joe what you are saying in your posts sounds great but after competing at many things I can say that given power the competitors are their own worst enemies. There needs to be a strong association and the players should be members. However if the players start calling the shots they will put themselves out of business by making rules that venues, suppliers, and supporters can't live with. Voting members will pass rules to gain advantage over nonvoting members too, it is the way of the world.

The sport needs a real structure and a strong association. As we see from one fiasco after another, the devil is in the details.

Hu

There are very few (if any) professional pool players. Most players work for a paycheck and that is not a professional’s way.

To get pool playing out from the smoking rooms and tardy reputation there is a need for a Professional Pool Players Association. In many sports there are players’ associations and it seems to me, though I know little about the subject, that they are formed more like unions.

 

[Craig Fales]

Joe what you are saying in your posts sounds great but after competing at many things I can say that given power the competitors are their own worst enemies. There needs to be a strong association and the players should be members. However if the players start calling the shots they will put themselves out of business by making rules that venues, suppliers, and supporters can't live with. Voting members will pass rules to gain advantage over nonvoting members too, it is the way of the world.

The sport needs a real structure and a strong association. As we see from one fiasco after another, the devil is in the details.

Hu

Something along the lines of an association is needed...checks and balances will keep things honest...if others industries can do it so can pool...
Whatever happened to the cry for a pool players union after the IPT disaster...

 

[ShootingArts]

Somebody ought to do something!

Something along the lines of an association is needed...checks and balances will keep things honest...if others industries can do it so can pool...
Whatever happened to the cry for a pool players union after the IPT disaster...

Well I think it went like this:

Somebody ought to do something!

Very few people are actually willing to take responsibility. Also any such group needs some funding from already cash short players. The idea probably ran out of gas in a hurry when the realities of founding a group or union were on the table.

Hu

 

[Craig Fales]

Well I think it went like this:

Somebody ought to do something!

Very few people are actually willing to take responsibility. Also any such group needs some funding from already cash short players. The idea probably ran out of gas in a hurry when the realities of founding a group or union were on the table.

Hu

There's the root cause that pocket billiards won't increase it's popularity...nobody wants to REALLY unite and develop the sport...we're not talking something that takes heavy cash to do...just put together an association that is for players and players only...

 

[StraightPoolIU]

To me it sounds like there should be 3 separate organizations. The first organization would be the association for professionals that sets standards for professional conduct and what it means to be a professional. The second should be a governing body who's job it is to put out a uniform set of rules for games and equipment and protecting the integrity of the game itself. Third there should be a pro tour independent of the other two that has the job of exclusively holding it's own tournaments and marketing itself and it's players. These three entities should co-exist and work with one another so our sport has uniformity and standardization. Just my .02. It's seems to work out pretty well for golf.

 

[BlackDragon]

Isn't it up to the pro's to do it? They just wanna play pool , don't they?

 

[justnum]

AZ already has the groundwork done. They host rooms at events like the derby. I am not sure where else they have these annual conventions.

As for the members who participate, well thats likely to cause some controversy.

Even the pros on the board are keeping it professional. But there should be a better filter for the questions they receive.

And as for what the AZ gang is doing, well I've been reading quite a bit about all kinds of stuff from billiards to hot topics.

What were you hoping for a gang to go out bust down doors and say play billiards?

 

[Eddie4269]

Why is it every couple of weeks someone is on here talking about "what pool really needs" to get its image away from smoky rooms with gambling and drinking, etc.

First of all, the idea that pool lacks widespread popularity because of an image problem is horsesh*t!! Poker has always had an even "seedier" image than pool, and now its the hottest thing going. Housewives, college professors, actors, and now and then even poolplayers are playing poker like there's no tomorrow. So let us play in our smoky rooms. Let us gamble. We like it. If you don't, then don't show up. I'm all for no-smoking rooms if it's that way because the owner of the joint wants it that way.

And as far as an organization for "professional" pool players, are you nuts??? What's a group like that going to do for the players? You've already presented a bias against those who in YOUR opinion don't lend respectibility to the game. What would your organization do in regards to players who gamble in regions of the country where it is "technically" illegal? Would they be sanctioned? Booted? Banned from tournaments? Or would you go the route of hypocrite and look the other way? It's a double edged sword and I say let sleeping dogs lie...

The only thing pool needs is more tournaments and more money!

This is just my opinion and is in no way meant to be disrespectful.

 

[td873]

There are very few (if any) professional pool players. Most players work for a paycheck and that is not a professional’s way.

The subtle point that is missed in this debate is that being a professional team player (basketball, football, baseball, soccer, etc) equates to a salary, whereas individual professionals (i.e., golf, tennis, bowling, pool, poker, darts, etc) equates to getting paid by "winning." And, the more popular the sport, the more money can be won.

In the pool world (as with most individual sports), the best that can be accomplished (other than winning everything in Efren-esque fashion) is to have a deep pockets sponsor. Being a professional in this context does not mean you get (or deserve) money.

The tragedy of pool is that the players that are truly able to compete and win are still not able to sustain a reasonable standard of living due to lack of funds.

Thus, I believe the real issue is infusing financial support from outside sources in order to increase the number of players that can sustain a living simply by competing (and winning, of course). This should include more money for winning, as well as deeper and larger payouts. However, pool has received another unfortunate black eye (in the form of the IPT) to keep big business away from pool yet again.

The future of pool does not look dismal, but at the same time, pool is not the rising star in the sporting world. It appears that we are destined for a life in the middle ground - and the "big time" will elude pool players as it has for decades.

-td

 

[ShootingArts]

the bottom line

I think the bottom line is simple. We have to find a way to generate enough interest from the general public to attract corporate advertising and/or major network TV deals which is saying basically the same thing. There aren't really megabucks to be had from within the pool community. Those that have the money to sponsor events mostly already have market saturation.

I think at least the top one hundred ranked players in the US should be able to make a decent living year in and year out for as long as they can hold that ranking, simply from prize winnings. Sponsors are nice but we shouldn't have to live or die on individual sponsorship.

The money isn't inside pool for this and we have seen the result of counting on a rich sugar daddy. So how do we extract money from a reliable source?

Hu

The subtle point that is missed in this debate is that being a professional team player (basketball, football, baseball, soccer, etc) equates to a salary, whereas individual professionals (i.e., golf, tennis, bowling, pool, poker, darts, etc) equates to getting paid by "winning." And, the more popular the sport, the more money can be won.

In the pool world (as with most individual sports), the best that can be accomplished (other than winning everything in Efren-esque fashion) is to have a deep pockets sponsor. Being a professional in this context does not mean you get (or deserve) money.

The tragedy of pool is that the players that are truly able to compete and win are still not able to sustain a reasonable standard of living due to lack of funds.

Thus, I believe the real issue is infusing financial support from outside sources in order to increase the number of players that can sustain a living simply by competing (and winning, of course). This should include more money for winning, as well as deeper and larger payouts. However, pool has received another unfortunate black eye (in the form of the IPT) to keep big business away from pool yet again.

The future of pool does not look dismal, but at the same time, pool is not the rising star in the sporting world. It appears that we are destined for a life in the middle ground - and the "big time" will elude pool players as it has for decades.

-td

 

[fasteddienc]

Too many tours / promoters / rules / ETC. ETC.

I think that pool has grew apart from itself instead of together. Over the past years there has been extreme growth of regional tours, leagues, and organizations. BCA, VNEA, APA, 8 Ball Express and this is just a few of the organized leagues and all have their own rules and formats. It's come to a point where players always have to ask what rules they are playing by. Some organizations (BCA) label themselves as the "governing body of pool". Now how is a sport governed when it has so many different organizations playing by their own rules??

In addition there are numerous regional tours that are all competing for sponsorship monies and products. It would be so much easier if all these tours could unite and use the same rules and formats as a basis for a larger and organized "pro tour" that would share the sponsorship rather than competing for it. I must commend Mike Janis for his idea of the N.U.T.S system that was a basis of a system in which all tours would serve as a qualification system and would collect a $2.00 fee as part of entry money to be reserved for larger tournaments with bigger payouts. It seems the tours could not get together and support such an effort.

Most problems with pool is that each organization, tour, or league wants to operate under their own conditions and therefore pool doesn't have the bond it needs to gain strength in numbers. There is a continuing interest in getting the youth involved with such things as the Junior Nationals but it's such a sad thing that some of those youth that develop a love for pool and have extradinary talent will have no future in pool until something changes. It's as if the pool world is setting these youngsters up for a great "letdown" when they realize their is no future in pool.

I often notice these same posts and lots of great ideas. Hopefully in the near future someone will take interest and can set in motion the actions needed to make pool successful. It will have to be someone who can learn from the failures of past tours (Camel, PBA, PBT), and I think many notes should be taken from the success of the women's tour.

 

[AZE]

More money, better business minds. Period.

 

[Flex]

It will have to be someone who can learn from the failures of past tours (Camel, PBA, PBT), and I think many notes should be taken from the success of the women's tour.

Any idea of what the TV viewership demographics of the women's tour might be?

 

[Flex]

Another persistent problem is the image of pool in the popular culture. With the Minnesota Fats/Hustler reputation pool enjoys, it ain't gonna be easy. With the tough guy, tatooed macho dude and his girlfriend draped suggestively over da table, da high class folks and advertisers won't be droppin' da doh anytime soon.

IMHO, the biggest problem pool has is the image pool players project. Will that change? I doubt it.

 

[Fatboy]

Any idea of what the TV viewership demographics of the women's tour might be?

people with broken remote controls<<<<<just kidding I was wondering the same thing, If they had binikini pool then the ratings would be great.

 

[Fatboy]

Another persistent problem is the image of pool in the popular culture. With the Minnesota Fats/Hustler reputation pool enjoys, it ain't gonna be easy. With the tough guy, tatooed macho dude and his girlfriend draped suggestively over da table, da high class folks and advertisers won't be droppin' da doh anytime soon.

IMHO, the biggest problem pool has is the image pool players project. Will that change? I doubt it.

Flex

yeah true but look at Orange County Chopper, that show has done very good and they arny choior boys, they are all tattooed up, loud people fighting all the time, and they have poker going all the time on TV and we all know they are all degenerate gamblers, the general public isnt as fragile as it was 10-15 years ago, the trick is how to generate interest not point fingers at reasons why it wont work, i'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just making observations i want pool to take off like poker did, were on the same team, sorruy if thuis post seems critical of you-i appologize in advance if it does.

best

fatboy

 

[Flex]

Flex

yeah true but look at Orange County Chopper, that show has done very good and they arny choior boys, they are all tattooed up, loud people fighting all the time, and they have poker going all the time on TV and we all know they are all degenerate gamblers, the general public isnt as fragile as it was 10-15 years ago, the trick is how to generate interest not point fingers at reasons why it wont work, i'm not trying to pick a fight I'm just making observations i want pool to take off like poker did, were on the same team, sorruy if thuis post seems critical of you-i appologize in advance if it does.

best

fatboy

Not a problem with your post, not at all.

My only real point is that pool isn't respectable, at least not the way golf is, for instance, or NASCAR racing is. I'm not aware of any big time cheating going on with televised poker, it probably is almost impossible to get away with it. But in pool, there are people who will dump once the money gets big enough, as I'm sure you are aware.

The closest thing that came to working was the IPT, and we saw what happened to it.

Just not a pretty situation.

Flex