Pool quiz on cue questions

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deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1) Do points make the cue play better?and how can you prove this?

2)How does the ballance point affect the play of the cue if you hold the cue near the end of the butt? What difference is an inch either way?

3) Can you support your opinion with evidence or science,please explain?

4) If not why all the concern?
 
deanoc said:
1) Do points make the cue play better?and how can you prove this?
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Not in anyone's nightmare


2)How does the ballance point affect the play of the cue if you hold the cue near the end of the butt? What difference is an inch either way?
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You asked three questions, which makes it loaded. The complex answer is that if we all agree that virtually every shot is taken with the cuestick slightly to more than slightly elevated, then by the potential energy formula, a loose stick, cue dropping type of stroke takes less energy and therefore less effort to stroke with a balance point further back. The downside is that it takes more energy to get and hold that stick to the elevated (or slightly elevated) position to begin with. Choose your battle wisely.

What difference does an inch either way make? From a percentage point difference, a really small percentage. But most experienced players can feel the difference of an inch immediately.

3) Can you support your opinion with evidence or science,please explain?
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Did. Potential Energy = mgh. But, it doesn't matter from a study of balance alone. Let's not make a false conclusion.

4) If not why all the concern?
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The concern is simply from a feel standpoint. Your question is the same as why a baseball batter swings a bat with a thin vs. thick handle or bat head. They're going with feel during the swing. All of the bats in baseball can get hits over the fence. But, how a particular individual is able to swing a particular bat is part of the equation of their particular optimization.

Even a small percentage, a human can discern a difference. Whether that difference is detrimental is a completely different question and answer for each individual. For me, once the balance point gets too far away from comfort zone, I cannot hold the cue for much longer than a few strokes.

Same as any sport. Same as pool. Throughout our experience, we as individuals will be able to tell what type of parameters feel best to them.

Fred
 
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deanoc said:
1) Do points make the cue play better?and how can you prove this?

2)How does the ballance point affect the play of the cue if you hold the cue near the end of the butt? What difference is an inch either way?

3) Can you support your opinion with evidence or science,please explain?

4) If not why all the concern?
Click to expand...

I heard from a cue maker that points do indeed make a cue play different, maybe better maybe not.

Some people like different balance points so that is a preferance question.
 
deanoc said:
1) Do points make the cue play better?and how can you prove this?

2)How does the ballance point affect the play of the cue if you hold the cue near the end of the butt? What difference is an inch either way?

3) Can you support your opinion with evidence or science,please explain?

4) If not why all the concern?
Click to expand...

1. I read somewhere that a cue maker said that points (spliced not inlayed) stabilize the forearm wood. I don't know how true is this. But a full splice cue does feel different than a 3 piece constructed butt. Better is a subjective thing, what will feel better for one might not feel that good for another.

2. I read somewhere (I get to read a lot...) that one of the old-school players said that the cue should be griped at it's balanced point, so the balance point will be under your elbow at contact point. This is from the era of players where the common pool stance the chin was high and not on the cue, unlike nowadays stance that is similar to the snooker stance. Snooker player grip the cue at the end of the butt and all snooker cues are butt-heavy.... I believe that again this is a personal preference, I like a forward balance, it makes the cue feels lighter.

3. The pool world is filled with superstitions, what right or wrong is really hard to say. I guess each one should be open minded and try different things, different cues with different specs and decide what works best for themselves.

4. Playing pool is totally against the human body nature and reflexes, that's what makes it hard and yet appealing to so many at the same time. Looking for the right instrument that will make the game easier is a good psychological thing. It's one less thing to worry about when focusing on the game.
 
Cornerman said:
Not in anyone's nightmare


You asked three questions, which makes it loaded. The complex answer is that if we all agree that virtually every shot is taken with the cuestick slightly to more than slightly elevated, then by the potential energy formula, a loose stick, cue dropping type of stroke takes less energy and therefore less effort to stroke with a balance point further back. The downside is that it takes more energy to get and hold that stick to the elevated (or slightly elevated) position to begin with. Choose your battle wisely.

What difference does an inch either way make? From a percentage point difference, a really small percentage. But most experienced players can feel the difference of an inch immediately.

Did. Potential Energy = mgh. But, it doesn't matter from a study of balance alone. Let's not make a false conclusion.

The concern is simply from a feel standpoint. Your question is the same as why a baseball batter swings a bat with a thin vs. thick handle or bat head. They're going with feel during the swing. All of the bats in baseball can get hits over the fence. But, how a particular individual is able to swing a particular bat is part of the equation of their particular optimization.

Even a small percentage, a human can discern a difference. Whether that difference is detrimental is a completely different question and answer for each individual. For me, once the balance point gets too far away from comfort zone, I cannot hold the cue for much longer than a few strokes.

Same as any sport. Same as pool. Throughout our experience, we as individuals will be able to tell what type of parameters feel best to them.

Fred
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I agree with Fred.

I am not gonna put science up as my backer, just my personal experiences.

How much difference is there between 12.5 mm shaft and 12.6? I can tell the difference. I don't know how, I just can.

I was recently in Pete Petree's shop and he took the buttcap off of a cue he made and it was only barely one ounce. I took the cue in my hands and stroked it and it felt like a completely different cue. It basically felt like an incomplete cue with something missing from the back.

I personally love to play with full spliced cues and think that putting those points in makes the wood more stable which is why they were done in the first place. The large area of glue surface made it an ideal way to join two pieces of wood together without screws or adding any other type of joinery. Half spliced cues are simply an abbreviated version of doing full spliced cues and therefore get only half the result. Feel and all.

During the ICCS, Bill Schick, Jerry McWorter, and others brought up the fact that we are essentially copying those of the past. Why do cue makers today still build cues with points, and would we even be doing it had it never been done before? Why wouldn't we be making waves, or egyptian style mortise & tenons, or japanese joinery? who knows?

The only thing I can think of is that there is a basic fundamental of joining a round wooden dowel to make it first of all, fit together in the best way possible and stand up to the test of time and abuse they way a player would handle his cue.

Basically, with the balance point, I think if a human (experienced player) can detect variances going from 12.5 to 12.6 mm, or a difference in the thickness of a tip and even whether or not a joint face is not completely faced off perfectly, is a tribute to human sensitivity and all boils down to personal preference and what one likes over another.

Why does a person like chocolate and another like strawberry? I like pistachio almond ice cream and all I can tell you is that I like the flavor. I don't necessarily know why I like a full spliced cue over any of my 3 piece cues. All I can say is that there is more of a resonating tone that vibrates with a ton of feedback into my hand and up into my body. That type of feedback is something that an experienced player needs. That as well as the use of deflection and touch is where I get a huge part of my enjoyment.

sorry if I rambled on, but I was just trying to speak from the heart.
 
DoubleD said:
I disagree with the method of your 'proof'. Potential energy will say that the energy you put in, you will get out in kinetic energy--1/2*m*v^2 (Newtonian Physics). Thus, you have to lift the weight first to get the potential energy.
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I'm pretty sure I said that.

Fred
 
Whillakers fellas, all of these formulas and my head is spinning.After all the talk it gets down to what seems to feel better to the individual player.

I never heard the subject mentioned until I got on AZ,then I asked some of the very best cue makers in the USA,and concensus is that it isn't worth talking about. Then I sold or gave cues to some of the very best players in the world and not one of them asked a single question about balance point,they took the cue,put balls on the table and played for a few minutes and seldom found a single thing to complain about.

At Galveston Ronnie Alcano took one of my deano cues took it to Daviney for a minor shaft taper,put his tip on it ,took off to the pool room for 2 hours and returned owning a new cue he pronounced "very good" No questions about all this stuff.

My conclusion is pick up the stick,hit some shots and if you like it don't think about it again.
 
I can also take a cue that I don't like at first and make mods to my specs and like it. I did that to a Linds Cue that I bought. But before I bought it, I inspected it and can see what I don't like in it... The mod was easy... Take weight bolt out and ask Linds to make a 4oz+ shaft at 13mm.

Before mod:
#1 - Weight was heavy due to large weight bolt (20oz+).
#2 - Balance Point was backward (17").
#3 - Shaft was too thin 12mm.

After mod:
#1 - Weight was around 18.5oz.
#2 - Balance Point was 18.75".
#3 - New shaft with 13mm tip.

I have some more that I bought and will be doing some mods too. :)

deanoc said:
Whillakers fellas, all of these formulas and my head is spinning.After all the talk it gets down to what seems to feel better to the individual player.

I never heard the subject mentioned until I got on AZ,then I asked some of the very best cue makers in the USA,and concensus is that it isn't worth talking about. Then I sold or gave cues to some of the very best players in the world and not one of them asked a single question about balance point,they took the cue,put balls on the table and played for a few minutes and seldom found a single thing to complain about.

At Galveston Ronnie Alcano took one of my deano cues took it to Daviney for a minor shaft taper,put his tip on it ,took off to the pool room for 2 hours and returned owning a new cue he pronounced "very good" No questions about all this stuff.

My conclusion is pick up the stick,hit some shots and if you like it don't think about it again.
Click to expand...
 
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