Pool - Stopping the Decline and Going Mainstream

Push&Pool

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I've seen a lot of threads about the downfall of pool and especially about the death of professional pool.

The true reason pool is in a decline is the fact that everybody's searching for a solution in the top (pro pool) instead in the bottom (casual pool for masses). Many of you say that pool is a game everyone wants to play and nobody wants to watch. One reason is the fact pool lacks the dynamics of certain sports. But the other cause for that is the fact pool simply isn't popular and mainstream enough so people just don't consider it important and worth following.

I don't have a definite solution for that, but I have a logical idea. Placing all the money there is and every available sponsor in creating a global pool league It would be held in every country possible, where every person, from kids to old people, from pros to complete beginners, could participate for a low fee. It would bring pool to every home, every family, every group of friends. It could either be played in teams or the players could participate individually, I'm personally not sure right now what would be more practical.

Anyway, it could last the whole year, and most of that time participants would play in their own city and surrounding area, so people with regular jobs, college or school wouldn't lose a lot of time on travelling. Only the most successful would go to regional competition, then continental, followed by world finals. That's where the prize money would be.

I'm not going into details at the moment, I just want to clarify one more thing. It could be held at only one game (8-ball preferably, as it's already the most widespread form) or at several games. We could go with WSR rules, but the better idea could be to construct a different rule set which would provide a more even ground so amateurs and players with little table time could actually stand a chance and have some fun and success.

If the pool organizations could pull off something like this, then the reality shows, pool lessons, tv and internet coverage, equipment production and selling, would pay off a lot more. Subsequently, we would have a greater influx of new players in pool, and a much larger base for new professional players to rise from. It would ultimately help pro pool as well.

If anyone has a better idea, please share.
 
Push&Pool said:
I've seen a lot of threads about the downfall of pool and especially about the death of professional pool.

The true reason pool is in a decline is the fact that everybody's searching for a solution in the top (pro pool) instead in the bottom (casual pool for masses). Many of you say that pool is a game everyone wants to play and nobody wants to watch. One reason is the fact pool lacks the dynamics of certain sports. But the other cause for that is the fact pool simply isn't popular and mainstream enough so people just don't consider it important and worth following.

I don't have a definite solution for that, but I have a logical idea. Placing all the money there is and every available sponsor in creating a global pool league It would be held in every country possible, where every person, from kids to old people, from pros to complete beginners, could participate for a low fee. It would bring pool to every home, every family, every group of friends. It could either be played in teams or the players could participate individually, I'm personally not sure right now what would be more practical.

Anyway, it could last the whole year, and most of that time participants would play in their own city and surrounding area, so people with regular jobs, college or school wouldn't lose a lot of time on travelling. Only the most successful would go to regional competition, then continental, followed by world finals. That's where the prize money would be.

I'm not going into details at the moment, I just want to clarify one more thing. It could be held at only one game (8-ball preferably, as it's already the most widespread form) or at several games. We could go with WSR rules, but the better idea could be to construct a different rule set which would provide a more even ground so amateurs and players with little table time could actually stand a chance and have some fun and success.

If the pool organizations could pull off something like this, then the reality shows, pool lessons, tv and internet coverage, equipment production and selling, would pay off a lot more. Subsequently, we would have a greater influx of new players in pool, and a much larger base for new professional players to rise from. It would ultimately help pro pool as well.

If anyone has a better idea, please share.
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The simple fact is, unless there are places for people to play pool will continue to die. There are zillions of cities towns that don't even have one pool room. Out of sight out of mind.

Until people decide that the pool room business is something they want to do it will only get worse. How can you expect people to care about a sport they can't even go play if they want to. Right now it's 9:15 pm. Years ago I would be on my way out to any one of half a dozen pool rooms within a 30 minute drive. The closest pool room near me tonight is about 15 miles and it is a place I would not go if the pool was free.

So I am flipping to see what is on TV and this is coming from a pool fanatic. Of course I can go in the other room and play some on my own table but that doesn't do much for the health and future of the sport.
 
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The game is filled with criminals and thieves

Normal citizens are not interested in a game that offers very little other than "I will bet a zillion" arguments followed up with "he's got a gun in somebody's face".
Check these forums and see how many of the great heroes rant with pride about who had a gun on who or who stole all the stake money or who could do the most blow on the free, who could dump and double dump the best, or how many chumps somebody stuckup or air barreled.
This game, to the general public, is dead as a doornail and the movies have only helped it die. As for 'movies', just check out that thing "Pool Hall Junkies". You think most people want their kids to grow up and be like the trash in that film? Not likely.
Yea, yea, yea, I know "they're all not like that" etc etc.....but OF COURSE they all are not like that, but they are the ones GETTING ALL THE ATTENTION as if being in prison, sleeping in stolen cars, and the like are some kind of "badges of honor"
I've been in the game for 60 years, seen it all, and have done most of it (to my regret) and I can firmly state there is no way I'd invest any money in a damn pool room.
For losers and those with a secret death wish...that's the future of pool in the USA.
Americans don't have enough sense to do it like those Brits do it..."if you're trash...get your ass out of here".
 
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It all starts in the schools. Most people don't even know there are professional pool players. First to be recognized as a sport there has to be scholastic competition. High schools today even have golf teams. If a national organization could get high schools or even colleges (like Mark Wilson's Lindenwood Lions) competing against each other, then the kids get involved, and the parents follow. From there the sport grows.

If espn can carry the national spelling bee, they most certainly would carry the national high school eight ball finals.

After that come the private billiards clubs, like golf or curling up in Canada, clubs with private memberships, house pros, and impeccable equipment are founded like those that exist in Europe. So now the parents and kids can go together and put in two hours a day without fear of their car being broken into.
 
GoldenFlash said:
Normal citizens are not interested in a game that offers very little other than "I will bet a zillion" arguments followed up with "he's got a gun in somebody's face".
Check these forums and see how many of the great heroes rant with pride about who had a gun on who or who stole all the stake money or who could do the most blow on the free, who could dump and double dump the best, or how many chumps somebody stuckup or air barreled.
This game, to the general public, is dead as a doornail and the movies have only helped it die. As for 'movies', just check out that thing "Pool Hall Junkies". You think most people want their kids to grow up and be like the trash in that film? Not likely.
Yea, yea, yea, I know "they're all not like that" etc etc.....but OF COURSE they all are not like that, but they are the ones GETTING ALL THE ATTENTION as if being in prison, sleeping in stolen cars, and the like are some kind of "badges of honor"
I've been in the game for 60 years, seen it all, and have done most of it (to my regret) and I can firmly state there is no way I'd invest any money in a damn pool room.
For losers and those with a secret death wish...that's the future of pool in the USA.
Americans don't have enough sense to do it like those Brits do it..."if you're trash...get your ass out of here".
Click to expand...
What the heck are you talking about. If you say you have been in the game for 60 years it would put you in your mid to late 70's. Pool back in the 60's was a family game. there were family oriented rooms all over the country.

It sounds like you hate the game so what are you doing here on this forum talking about a game you hate so much? Time for you to move on to another interest.

I just did a quick read through of some of your past posts, you are really a miserable person and really hate everything about pool and pool players. I have to ask again, what the heck are you doing reading this forum?
 
At the local level, there are some negatives to overcome if someone wants lots of new pool league members.

The biggest concern, of course, is the lack of clean, safe pool rooms with good equipment, located within 20-30 minutes of enough players to make up several leagues per week.

Long seasons are also a problem, at least for newcomers. Newcomers to a sport want to put a toe in the water first, before they commit to $20-$40 per person per week for a league season lasting most of a year.

Co-ed league play often starts with teams made up of two sets of spouses or boy/girl friends. But some of the handicap leagues force members off teams, if or when they improve significantly. How can you have fun and try to get better at pool if you know that winning your next match might force you off the team you and your wife play on?

When winning is the only goal, leagues and sports suffer. People make fun of the kiddie sports where everyone gets a trophy, but it keeps the kids happy and positive, and they eventually learn better. Promote fun in pool leagues, forget about all the trips to Vegas and big-money end-of-season payouts, forget cut-throat competition, just focus on having fun and learning to play great pool in the here-and-now.

Instead of a year-long 8-ball or 9-ball league, how about a four month league with one month each of 8, 9, and maybe American Rotation, with the game played during the last month determined by a poll of the players, or even breaker's choice? Since it's just for fun, why not try different games? Why not bring back Kelly pool, or pill pool, the greatest natural equalizer in all of pocket billiard sports?

Instead of only playing team A against B, put the names of all the members of A and B in a pot and draw to see who plays whom. This allows team members to have a chance to compete against each other - but would only work if playing for fun and improvement is the goal, and not individual or team standings and end-of-season money.

I'd also suggest rotating Masters-level players who can teach through the regular teams, playing on a team, instructing them, then moving on to another team for the next couple of sessions, and making the season goal individual personal improvement, which can be measured by standardized tests much like Dr Dave and others have made available on the Internet.

Whatever people try, my opinion is that new, untried ideas have a better chance of getting more participation in pool leagues than the ideas currently out there now.

But without clean, safe pool rooms within easy driving distance we all are just whistling past a grave yard.

BTW I live 60 miles from the nearest pool room of any sort. Not fun.
 
macguy said:
What the heck are you talking about. If you say you have been in the game for 60 years it would put you in your mid to late 70's. Pool back in the 60's was a family game. there were family oriented rooms all over the country.

It sounds like you hate the game so what are you doing here on this forum talking about a game you hate so much? Time for you to move on to another interest.

I just did a quick read through of some of your past posts, you are really a miserable person and really hate everything about pool and pool players. I have to ask again, what the heck are you doing reading this forum?
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Why isn't my opinion just as valid as YOUR opinion?
Is it because you cannot control your temper and must make personal attacks instead of keeping focus on what's wrong with the game, when you disagree with an opposite point of view??
I'd guess you have your own problems with being miserable. Maybe you should consider your own suggestion and move on???
(another reason pool players are despised by the general public: Too many hotheads.)
Bye.
 
Texdance said:
At the local level, there are some negatives to overcome if someone wants lots of new pool league members.
The biggest concern, of course, is the lack of clean, safe pool rooms with good equipment, located within 20-30 minutes of enough players to make up several leagues per week.
Long seasons are also a problem, at least for newcomers. Newcomers to a sport want to put a toe in the water first, before they commit to $20-$40 per person per week for a league season lasting most of a year.
Co-ed league play often starts with teams made up of two sets of spouses or boy/girl friends. But some of the handicap leagues force members off teams, if or when they improve significantly. How can you have fun and try to get better at pool if you know that winning your next match might force you off the team you and your wife play on?
When winning is the only goal, leagues and sports suffer. People make fun of the kiddie sports where everyone gets a trophy, but it keeps the kids happy and positive, and they eventually learn better. Promote fun in pool leagues, forget about all the trips to Vegas and big-money end-of-season payouts, forget cut-throat competition, just focus on having fun and learning to play great pool in the here-and-now.
Instead of a year-long 8-ball or 9-ball league, how about a four month league with one month each of 8, 9, and maybe American Rotation, with the game played during the last month determined by a poll of the players, or even breaker's choice? Since it's just for fun, why not try different games? Why not bring back Kelly pool, or pill pool, the greatest natural equalizer in all of pocket billiard sports?
Instead of only playing team A against B, put the names of all the members of A and B in a pot and draw to see who plays whom. This allows team members to have a chance to compete against each other - but would only work if playing for fun and improvement is the goal, and not individual or team standings and end-of-season money.
I'd also suggest rotating Masters-level players who can teach through the regular teams, playing on a team, instructing them, then moving on to another team for the next couple of sessions, and making the season goal individual personal improvement, which can be measured by standardized tests much like Dr Dave and others have made available on the Internet.
Whatever people try, my opinion is that new, untried ideas have a better chance of getting more participation in pool leagues than the ideas currently out there now.
But without clean, safe pool rooms within easy driving distance we all are just whistling past a grave yard.
BTW I live 60 miles from the nearest pool room of any sort. Not fun.
Click to expand...
You're a wise man.
There is the answer...what you said and I highlighted in red. The "glory" days of Johnston City and Hot Springs gambling and gun carrying hoods on the way to prison are gone with the wind.
People with style, dignity, and class will flock to this game like crows to busted watermelons...........IF THE HOODLUMS, CRIMINALS AND THIEVES are not allowed in the venues. People did it in the 60's and they saw enough of the dirty side of the game........so they quit coming and took up with something else
 
GoldenFlash said:
Why isn't my opinion just as valid as YOUR opinion?
Is it because you cannot control your temper and must make personal attacks instead of keeping focus on what's wrong with the game, when you disagree with an opposite point of view??
I'd guess you have your own problems with being miserable. Maybe you should consider your own suggestion and move on???
(another reason pool players are despised by the general public: Too many hotheads.)
Bye.
Click to expand...

Your view has no point other then to talk down pool. So what are your ideas to improve the games? Do you have anything positive to say?
 
You want pool to grow, children need to be expose to it. Not sure about others, but I'm not taking my kids to the place I play because of the smoke. Once smoking is gone, more kids will get involved.
 
macguy said:
Your view has no point other then to talk down pool. So what are your ideas to improve the games? Do you have anything positive to say?
Click to expand...

macguy, have you opened your eyes of recent?

I hate to burst your bubble, but GoldenFlash is spot-on on what he is talking about. GF is being logical here. There are those people that play for fun on a Saturday night honky-tonk bar or a teenie-bopper bowling alley with billiard tables. Yet, when you go to an actual pool parlor (esp. when the demographics are leaning towards the low-income area), there are those people who some will see as delinquents!

As far as famous motion pictures involving pocket billiards go, you will expect people to interpret this about pool rooms because that is how they are informed (sadly).

No joke, but the damage is done. If "pool" (really... let's be real, this is a colloquialism of Pocket Billiards but we're too f***ing lazy to call it so) were to rise up to the masses, we should eliminate all the wrong crap that continues to give its bad reputation, then take it to the middle and high schools. Unfortunately, we all have to drink the damn Kool-Aid.
 
CoachDitka2001 said:
You want pool to grow, children need to be expose to it. Not sure about others, but I'm not taking my kids to the place I play because of the smoke. Once smoking is gone, more kids will get involved.
Click to expand...

There is no swinging in the rooms around me and there is no increase of youth.

Try again?
 
SlickRick_PCS said:
macguy, have you opened your eyes of recent?

I hate to burst your bubble, but GoldenFlash is spot-on on what he is talking about. GF is being logical here. There are those people that play for fun on a Saturday night honky-tonk bar or a teenie-bopper bowling alley with billiard tables. Yet, when you go to an actual pool parlor (esp. when the demographics are leaning towards the low-income area), there are those people who some will see as delinquents!

As far as famous motion pictures involving pocket billiards go, you will expect people to interpret this about pool rooms because that is how they are informed (sadly).

No joke, but the damage is done. If "pool" (really... let's be real, this is a colloquialism of Pocket Billiards but we're too f***ing lazy to call it so) were to rise up to the masses, we should eliminate all the wrong crap that continues to give its bad reputation, then take it to the middle and high schools. Unfortunately, we all have to drink the damn Kool-Aid.
Click to expand...
I have owned one bar and several pool rooms and they were what I chose them to be. You can run a biker place or a nice place it is your choice.

If GF is correct we should not even be discussing this. We should be happy that such a socially unacceptable pastime is disappearing much like whore houses and opium dens. There should be no place in any decent city for such a place as a pool room.

The truth is, there was 10's of thousand of nice family pool rooms all over the country at one time. They didn't begin closing because guys were in there carrying guns and shooting up the place. They closed because of economics.

It takes a lot of sq-age to have a pool room. In a decent location, or even a bad location the pool room got priced out. When you are selling pool time there is a limit to what you can get. Pool rooms just hit a cost ceiling and were not worth the investment any more.

They would lose their leases to places like retail chains stores. Or the building would be sold and bulldozed for a new mall. Either way they were no longer in a market where they could survive. As they closed there were no new one opening to replace them. They were gone for good.

So now you have a cascade effect. No pool rooms, no new players. Even after the COM you saw a bunch of pool rooms open but soon close due to the simple economics. Where the sport is now we almost have to start from scratch.

I know GF said he would not open a pool room if he had a gun to his head. I think he is wrong. I think for the first time in a long time investing in a pool room may not be that bad. If the pool room is to make a comeback, now may be the perfect time.

I was running around a bit at the COM time and I was in dozens and dozens of those new rooms. You could just walk in and tell this place was doomed. They were so over invested with a sky high nut that would eventually crush them.

You have to wonder what a lot of those people were thinking. Who goes in a business riding a wave and can't tell they will go under when the was ends. A pool room is what it is. It is a simple bottom line business.

There are only so many productive hours in the week, weeks in the month and months in the year. It is not like a manufacturing business where you can sign a new contract, put on another shift of workers and double your income. A given pool room has a limit what it can make no matter what, period. If the numbers work they work, if they don't they don't.
 
The glorification of the hustler/road player has to die. Those that still do so are not supporting pool, but a outdated lifestyle that involves pool and not in a good way.

The hustler/road player has never been high on my list and is not why I got into pool, nor is it why I play pool.

I don't tell alot of people I play pool because of the current imagine pool has. The money player, the hustling and so on.

It seems that this has been accepted for so long, no one knows about pool just as a sport to be played and not a sport for gambling.

What is lost the the positive aspects of pool. As with any sport with proper support and guidelines, pool can have a positive impact on youths. It is a great equalizer sport. Cheap equipment wise as compared to other sports.

Requires planning, forethought, understanding about cause and effect and so on. Helps with visualizing what you want to do.

Year round sport and can be play life long and can be learned at any age. Try that with football.

Any age, any sex can play any age, any sex and have a chance to win.

And so........
 
I've read your comments and I have to say that most of you, despite saying things which are true, are somewhat missing the point. You talk about the reputation of pool, the crime, the delinquency, the hustlers. But the hard reality is that for the huge majority of average and casual players pool doesn't have any kind of reputation. They just come to the nearest bar (or pool hall, if there is one), and play a few hours a week. Those who don't play are simply not attracted to the game at this time.

You also like to point out how pool halls are getting more and more rare, but you don't look at the fact there are countless bars with at least one table instead. The city I live in ain't big, some 60000 people live here, but there are 10-15 places where you can play pool, one club and the rest are bars. Literally every town of decent size in the world has at least a couple of places with pool tables today.

The hypothetical league I mentioned would be geared to average and casual players, even beginners, and it could be played in every city, town or village with at least one table. Those places could be pool halls, bars, or even private tables. The owner would get a share of the profit, of course, especially those bars (most halls too) which could in addition sell drinks and food to both participants and spectators.

Also, there would be no sandbagging as I'd be strictly against any type of handicapping. Instead I like the idea of using a more balanced set of rules (the same rule sets those average players usually play by) in order to shrink the gap between the good and the not so good. I can say that from my own point of view, as many games and matches I won in my life would most likely be lost if we played according to the WSR (ball in hand and stuff).

Now, that whole league idea would be much more successful if paired with school and college pool campaign, as someone else mentioned. As I see it, basketball is a top level sport because there is hardly a kid who hasn't played at least a few games in his life. Can the same be said for pool? Well, if we change that, the very idea of playing pool would be much, much closer to practically everyone. At the same time, that global league would be an exciting and fun way for people of both spending time with friends and actually testing their skills and competing.

I bet many would start taking lessons. Even more would buy their own cues and equipment. Bars and halls would notice a major increase in traffic and buy more tables and stuff. Money would start to flow in, and even more importantly, pool would begin its ascension into a more or less mainstream sport.
 
Pool is primarily played in bars, and therefore is obviously associated with drinking. If suddenly tomorrow all pool tables disappeared from bars over 95% of public tables would disappear. Is this really that hard to understand? Pool is mainstream...in bars. Seems some people think "pool" should be a high school sports team complete with cheerleaders. Yep, that will go over like a lead balloon with school boards....unless you're talking about kids with disabilities that can't play active sports.
 
Push&Pool said:
I've read your comments and I have to say that most of you, despite saying things which are true, are somewhat missing the point. You talk about the reputation of pool, the crime, the delinquency, the hustlers. But the hard reality is that for the huge majority of average and casual players pool doesn't have any kind of reputation. They just come to the nearest bar (or pool hall, if there is one), and play a few hours a week. Those who don't play are simply not attracted to the game at this time.

You also like to point out how pool halls are getting more and more rare, but you don't look at the fact there are countless bars with at least one table instead. The city I live in ain't big, some 60000 people live here, but there are 10-15 places where you can play pool, one club and the rest are bars. Literally every town of decent size in the world has at least a couple of places with pool tables today.

The hypothetical league I mentioned would be geared to average and casual players, even beginners, and it could be played in every city, town or village with at least one table. Those places could be pool halls, bars, or even private tables. The owner would get a share of the profit, of course, especially those bars (most halls too) which could in addition sell drinks and food to both participants and spectators.

Also, there would be no sandbagging as I'd be strictly against any type of handicapping. Instead I like the idea of using a more balanced set of rules (the same rule sets those average players usually play by) in order to shrink the gap between the good and the not so good. I can say that from my own point of view, as many games and matches I won in my life would most likely be lost if we played according to the WSR (ball in hand and stuff).

Now, that whole league idea would be much more successful if paired with school and college pool campaign, as someone else mentioned. As I see it, basketball is a top level sport because there is hardly a kid who hasn't played at least a few games in his life. Can the same be said for pool? Well, if we change that, the very idea of playing pool would be much, much closer to practically everyone. At the same time, that global league would be an exciting and fun way for people of both spending time with friends and actually testing their skills and competing.

I bet many would start taking lessons. Even more would buy their own cues and equipment. Bars and halls would notice a major increase in traffic and buy more tables and stuff. Money would start to flow in, and even more importantly, pool would begin its ascension into a more or less mainstream sport.
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The availability of the bar tables is not pool. Pool rooms are pool. The bar table certainly has acted as a lifeboat that has kept pool afloat but it is not pool.

When was the last time you sat in a bar and sweated a good game of one pocket or rotation or straight pool? Or played some bank pool, or got on the bar table and did exercises to work on your game.

All a bar table is for the most part are two guys playing some 8 ball or a league playing 8 ball or occasionally 9 ball. The limitations of the bar table to play pool is more stark then people playing par 3 golf and thinking they are big time golfers.

We owe a lot to the bar table for keeping the game in the public eye to a small degree, but bar tables are not really pool in the largest sense of the word.
 
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