Pool Table Mechanic Directory - Bad Experience

cjohnsonjr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I Purchased a 2006 Gold Crown IV and had it moved and installed by JL's Pool Table Services - Sterling, Virginia on December 8, 2009. I chose JL's from the Pool Table Mechanic Directory because they service my area. The installation did not go well. Below is a PM I sent to Dartman concerning my experience. I am posting this PM at Dartman's request. By posting this PM on this forum I hope to warn other forum members about JL's business practices and give JL an opportunity to respond publicly. BTW - I love my new Gold Crown. It's matt black with chrome trim and, the best part, it has a Gold Crown V frame. Chuck

Hello Dartman: First I'd like to thank you for establishing the Table Mechanics Directory. It's a great idea. Unfortunately, I selected JL's Pool Table Service - Sterling, VA from the directory and had a bad experience. I purchased a GCIV and had the table moved and set up by JL on Dec.8, 2009. I requested Simonis 860 cloth. I've discovered the cloth installed is Championship. Also, the table isn't level, the slate seams are separating and screws are falling out of the ball return. I've tried to contact him three times and he hasn't responded. I don't want to flame anyone on the Forum, but no one else should have to deal with this. What do you suggest? Best regards, Chuck
 
Sorry about your expierience with JL, I only know of him from his Craigslist ads, I did not realize he was on the directory. I hope he will make good with you somehow, if not I would be able to re-install it for you if needed.
 
Sorry about your expierience with JL, I only know of him from his Craigslist ads, I did not realize he was on the directory. I hope he will make good with you somehow, if not I would be able to re-install it for you if needed.

I can vouch for Bob's work. The other gentleman I do not know.
 
Thanks for the responses. I'm still waiting to hear back from JL. I'm really surprised that he has decided not to respond in any way. Chuck
 
Bad Experience - Chapter 2

After three telephone calls and a threatening email, JL finally sent me an email. The following is what he had to say. Please let me know whether you believe his statements are credible.

Regarding the use of Championship Tour Edition cloth instead of Simonis 860, he wrote: "[T]he felt on the pool table is Championship Tour Edition cloth which is better then any product out there and is about 25.00 more then 860." He added: "This is the best material and last longer then 860 and plays better as well."

Regarding the slate seams separating, he wrote: "[T]his is caused by the table settling in the carpet and the floor up stairs moves back and forward from the weight of the table. The day we installed the table when I was leveling the table when any one walked in that area where the table was the level bubble would move around the whole time we were working."

Some additional information may be useful. The table was installed in the family room on the main level of my newly constructed home. The house is well built by Haverford Homes and uses engineered floor joists, which are stronger than standard wood floor joists. Also, he used a carpenter's level - not a machinist's level. It's difficult to believe that he could have seen any such movement using such a crude tool. JL claims that he discussed using Championship cloth with me on the day of the install. That never happened. I have had Simonis 860 on my old Olhausen for years, and the tables I compete on use Simonis 860. I would not have considered a change. Moreover, when he arrived for the install he had already recovered the rails with the Championship. At that point it would have been a little late to discuss an alternative cloth.

He has offered to fix the seams and re-level the table. He is not willing to change the cloth.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Chuck
 
After three telephone calls and a threatening email, JL finally sent me an email. The following is what he had to say. Please let me know whether you believe his statements are credible.

Regarding the use of Championship Tour Edition cloth instead of Simonis 860, he wrote: "[T]he felt on the pool table is Championship Tour Edition cloth which is better then any product out there and is about 25.00 more then 860." He added: "This is the best material and last longer then 860 and plays better as well."

Regarding the slate seams separating, he wrote: "[T]his is caused by the table settling in the carpet and the floor up stairs moves back and forward from the weight of the table. The day we installed the table when I was leveling the table when any one walked in that area where the table was the level bubble would move around the whole time we were working."

Some additional information may be useful. The table was installed in the family room on the main level of my newly constructed home. The house is well built by Haverford Homes and uses engineered floor joists, which are stronger than standard wood floor joists. Also, he used a carpenter's level - not a machinist's level. It's difficult to believe that he could have seen any such movement using such a crude tool. JL claims that he discussed using Championship cloth with me on the day of the install. That never happened. I have had Simonis 860 on my old Olhausen for years, and the tables I compete on use Simonis 860. I would not have considered a change. Moreover, when he arrived for the install he had already recovered the rails with the Championship. At that point it would have been a little late to discuss an alternative cloth.

He has offered to fix the seams and re-level the table. He is not willing to change the cloth.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Chuck

That's all just smoke, Championship costs less than Simonis...but is sold at a higher margin of profit by a mechanic. It don't play better...I don't care what anyone says...as it speeds up over time.

If the seams had been glued like they're suppose to have been...they'd still be together today:wink:
 
After three telephone calls and a threatening email, JL finally sent me an email. The following is what he had to say. Please let me know whether you believe his statements are credible.

Regarding the use of Championship Tour Edition cloth instead of Simonis 860, he wrote: "[T]he felt on the pool table is Championship Tour Edition cloth which is better then any product out there and is about 25.00 more then 860." He added: "This is the best material and last longer then 860 and plays better as well."

Regarding the slate seams separating, he wrote: "[T]his is caused by the table settling in the carpet and the floor up stairs moves back and forward from the weight of the table. The day we installed the table when I was leveling the table when any one walked in that area where the table was the level bubble would move around the whole time we were working."

Some additional information may be useful. The table was installed in the family room on the main level of my newly constructed home. The house is well built by Haverford Homes and uses engineered floor joists, which are stronger than standard wood floor joists. Also, he used a carpenter's level - not a machinist's level. It's difficult to believe that he could have seen any such movement using such a crude tool. JL claims that he discussed using Championship cloth with me on the day of the install. That never happened. I have had Simonis 860 on my old Olhausen for years, and the tables I compete on use Simonis 860. I would not have considered a change. Moreover, when he arrived for the install he had already recovered the rails with the Championship. At that point it would have been a little late to discuss an alternative cloth.

He has offered to fix the seams and re-level the table. He is not willing to change the cloth.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. Chuck

My thoughts are a complaint to the local BBB and if the product/services were paid by credit card I would be calling my card issuer to file a dispute.

I won't start a Simonis/Championship debate but I will say that Simonis 860/760 is a more expensive cloth than Tour Edition. This is easily verifiable via the internet. If you specified Simonis then that is what should have been put on the table regardless.

On the seams/leveling - if the seams were glued they should not separate despite some settling of the table on the carpet. Using a carpenters level is for hacks.

If he comes back to redo the slates/level there's no assurance that problem will be permanently fixed. As for the cloth, while it is a very good cloth it's not Simonis. All I see is a pissing contest with this guy down the road. While it would hurt your pocketbook you're probably better served bringing in someone new that will do the fixing correctly.

As an aside this JL guy wasn't listed in the mechanics directory as best as I can tell since I'm the one that maintains the list and went back thru every post to research.

Maybe both of these folks are the same but are you
referring to this guy -
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/1552343658.html
or this guy -
http://www.jlspooltables.com/index.html
 
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Bad Experience - Chapter 2

Thanks, Glen. I know people have different preferences in cloth, but I never heard anyone declare that Championship is clearly better than Simonis. As to the seams, they were not glued; they were filled with Bees Wax. Chuck
 
Bad Experience - Chapter 2

Thanks, Dartman - those are good suggestions. Also, something else just occurred to me. JL claims that we discussed the use of Championship cloth at my home when he arrived to install the table. That makes no sense inasmuch as he had already covered the rails with Championship when he arrived. It's not likely that he expected to redo the rails if I had objected. Chuck
 
Thanks, Dartman - those are good suggestions. Also, something else just occurred to me. JL claims that we discussed the use of Championship cloth at my home when he arrived to install the table. That makes no sense inasmuch as he had already covered the rails with Championship when he arrived. It's not likely that he expected to redo the rails if I had objected. Chuck

Assuming you made the table purchase/setup arrangements prior to the install date do you have anything in writing?
If I had to guess I'd say they put on Tour Ed and got called on it maybe thinking you wouldn't know the difference. Why cover a set of rails without instructions on which cloth to use unless you gave them carte blanche simply for fresh cloth.
 
Bad Experience - Chapter 2

Dartman: The link you provided is the guy who set up my table. When I was looking for a table mechanic, I used the Mechanic's list on this forum. I was certain I had gotten his name from that list, but I was obviously mistaken. It's nice to know that he is not a member of this forum. I think you're right, having him fix the problems is probably prolonging the inevitable. It may make more sense to cut my loses and have it done correctly by someone who takes pride in his work. Chuck
 
Dartman: The link you provided is the guy who set up my table. When I was looking for a table mechanic, I used the Mechanic's list on this forum. I was certain I had gotten his name from that list, but I was obviously mistaken. It's nice to know that he is not a member of this forum. I think you're right, having him fix the problems is probably prolonging the inevitable. It may make more sense to cut my loses and have it done correctly by someone who takes pride in his work. Chuck

Chuck,
Your not going crazy. It was post number 12 on the first page. I had put up the info from another directory. I took it down when you complained of there work. :embarrassed2:
 
Bad Experience - Chapter 2

Thanks, Pat. I truly thought I was losing my mind. If I didn't get his contact information from the forum, I had no idea how I obtained it. Chuck
 
Thanks, Pat. I truly thought I was losing my mind. If I didn't get his contact information from the forum, I had no idea how I obtained it. Chuck

And I didn't see where I added the guy to the actual list but I'm partial to Jack D so no chance of losing my mind (I think). :wink:
:smash:
Pat
 
So I shouldn't use his coupon?!?!:eek:
Billiard Balls, Pool Table Service
JL's Pool Table Service

Print This Coupon for a 5% Discount
for Your First-Time Complete Service
JL's Pool Table Service



That "first time" thing already makes me think someone is about to get F----d....:eek:
Let's see....$5 off per hundred, must have been about $500 on the bill, so $25 off of over priced bad service is- ridiculous.
Oh wait...is that slander...?
 
It Ended Well

Kudos to Rob Kay of TableTek. Rob worked on my table last night and into the morning fixing what was done incorrectly by JL. He also recovered the table with blue/green Simonis 860. He did an absolutely wonderful job. The table looks great and plays great. It is dead level and the cuff finish on the pocket cloth just adds a bit of class to the work. Thanks a lot, Rob. Chuck
 
Kudos to Rob Kay of TableTek. Rob worked on my table last night and into the morning fixing what was done incorrectly by JL. He also recovered the table with blue/green Simonis 860. He did an absolutely wonderful job. The table looks great and plays great. It is dead level and the cuff finish on the pocket cloth just adds a bit of class to the work. Thanks a lot, Rob. Chuck

Good to hear the table was fixed correctly by a real mechanic and AZB member.
So where's the pics? :D
 
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