poolhall smoking

Smokers and nonsmokers ... we need parallel universes to survive! No way to read all the pages of this, especially because I've read the same posts by the same posters for at least 3 or 4 years running.

Only hope for Donny, or anybody else who likes to breathe normally, has to be, if a deal cannot be reached to play after hours, to move away from the smoke-infested parts of the country! Laws may change, but who knows when. Probably be a long time since the right-wing nutballs are sure to take over again this fall.
 
Hierovision said:
<surprise>LWW comes with two incredibly failed attempts to rebut!</surprise>
You just likened peanuts and fatty foods to tobacco smoke. How the hell can you fail so miserably in an argument/debate with so much practice? You just earned a place next to cowboy on my ignore list.
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True ... fatty foods are more dangerous than second hand tobacco smoke, but I was trying to give a lame argument an edge.

Now ... please explain why your rights trump the rights of the pool room owner?

Show me what ya got.

LWW
 
Travis Bickle said:
Smokers and nonsmokers ... we need parallel universes to survive! No way to read all the pages of this, especially because I've read the same posts by the same posters for at least 3 or 4 years running.

Only hope for Donny, or anybody else who likes to breathe normally, has to be, if a deal cannot be reached to play after hours, to move away from the smoke-infested parts of the country! Laws may change, but who knows when. Probably be a long time since the right-wing nutballs are sure to take over again this fall.
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What is "RIGHT WING" about believing in liberty?

Also, why do you assume that congress will change hands this fall? Is it because you know in your heart of hearts that the American people have seen rabid statism and determined it is evil?

LWW
 
I smoke Cuban cigars daily (right now, a Cuaba Salomon.)

Although they have no added chemicals, and are less dangerous than cigarettes, many pool halls that allow smoking do not allow cigars.
 
D_Lewis said:
"According to the World Health Organization, tobacco is the second leading cause of deaths all around the globe. The WHO estimates that 10 percent of all deaths are smoking related, which comes out to about five million people each year. This number is expected to grow to 10 million by 2020. Half of all smokers will die from their tobacco use. That's about 325 MILLION deaths total. "

http://www.ehow.com/about_4760390_deaths-caused-smoking.html

Looks like your 262 Million was just trumped.
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Where to start?

1 - 100% of smokers will die.

2 - 100% of non smokers will die.

3 - Diet and lack of exercise cause more deaths than anything. Would you suggest the state mandate a certain amount of minimum daily exercise and maximum calorie intake?

4 - Do you believe that you own you, or that the state owns you?

5 - If you believe that the state can determine what you can ingest then you believe the state owns you. If you believe the state owns you then you by default believe that the state can mandate whatever it wants to you.

6 - Do you believe a home owner has the right to smoke in their own home? I don't see how you can because what if a non smoker wants to visit? We have already determined that you believe the property owner has no rights to determine the use of their property.

You guys really need to think this through, because you are selling your own self into slavery and getting nothing in return.

LWW
 
LWW said:
Eating fatty foods in a poolroom, or anywhere else for that matter, is not, and should not be treated as an emotional issue, but as a medical issue.
Eating fatty foods causes cancer, heart disease, pulmonary diseases, obesity, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, liver diseases, kidney disease, and birth defects. We all have seen and heard so much data regarding these ill effects that the information has now become common knowledge. When the argument that eating fatty foods is not harmful to others, even after medical science has proven over and over again that it is, one wonders why it is even listened to.
The right to eat fatty foods, as if it were somehow guaranteed by devine charter, is completely without merit, as well. Along with that, the notion that somehow monies gathered by tax, earned through related employment, or any other socio-economic consideration, will cause an undue hardship on the general population is equally preposterous.
In the interim, it is my opinion that ordinances should be passed that would promote, improve, and benefit the health of the two-thirds of the population who do not smoke, by banning this vile habit in poolhalls, poolrooms, and bars, as well as promoting an even more aggressive approach to helping those who are now caught up in its tragic addiction.

Therefor it is only fair that beef burgers be replaced by tofu burgers, potato chips be replaced by carrots, and all fatty foods be removed from pool hall menus nationwide.

After all, how hard is it to walk next door to the nearest McDonalds to have one's arse widened if that's what their addiction compels them to do?

LWW
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Yeah, well sitting next to you while you eat a cheese burger isn't going to bother my health. But, when you smoke it does. Food is a really poor analogy, by-the-way.
 
For those that want a smoke free poolhall. The answer is very simple. Start one.

Get some investors and start a smoke free pool hall. Do it in your community. Where ever you are. Start one.

Then.. when everyone sees how well you're doing, they too will take the appropriate action.

Everyone wants to cry and gripe, and say we need this law and that law.

No.. we don't. Come up with a business model, and implement that model. Build it and they will come. That's what makes this country great. You have the freedom to open a business for a need, for which you can provide a service.

But.... I think the reality is... people want others to be forced to do what they think is right.
The reality is... No one is forcing you to play pool.
No one is forcing you to play pool in a bar/poolhall.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people smoke.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people drink, smell bad, eat fatty foods, swear, pick their noses, etc.. (maybe you get the point....?)
If you want a poolhall, that is smoke free. You are free to open one. No one is forcing you NOT to do this. If there is a high demand for this, you will be very successful.

I hope everyone has an enjoyable rest of the day... and weekend.
 
Some guy named Thomas Jefferson once said
"Being myself a warm zealot for the attainment and enjoyment by all mankind of as much liberty as each may exercise without injury to the equal liberty of his fellow citizens, I have lamented that... the endeavors to obtain this should have been attended with the effusion of so much blood."

Any public establishment that exercises their liberty by allowing smoking is injuring my equal liberty to not die of cancer.

Of course I don't have to go to any pool hall that allows smoking. Smokers also don't have to smoke. Why the hell should their right trump mine?!??! My right causes ZERO "injury" (and in fact promotes good health) while theirs causes a laundry list of horrible diseases.

Way to keep an open mind Mr. Failed Argument #1879817359871958
 
Oh, what would Thomas Jefferson know about Liberty? :wink:

I do believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head. Nicely done.
 
Ponytail said:
For those that want a smoke free poolhall. The answer is very simple. Start one.

Get some investors and start a smoke free pool hall. Do it in your community. Where ever you are. Start one.

Then.. when everyone sees how well you're doing, they too will take the appropriate action.

Everyone wants to cry and gripe, and say we need this law and that law.

No.. we don't. Come up with a business model, and implement that model. Build it and they will come. That's what makes this country great. You have the freedom to open a business for a need, for which you can provide a service.

But.... I think the reality is... people want others to be forced to do what they think is right.
The reality is... No one is forcing you to play pool.
No one is forcing you to play pool in a bar/poolhall.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people smoke.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people drink, smell bad, eat fatty foods, swear, pick their noses, etc.. (maybe you get the point....?)
If you want a poolhall, that is smoke free. You are free to open one. No one is forcing you NOT to do this. If there is a high demand for this, you will be very successful.

I hope everyone has an enjoyable rest of the day... and weekend.
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I take it you're a smoker. One of those who, as I mentioned earlier, believe the right to smoke was endowed by our creator, or something like that. Someone who says, "They may pass a law to ban smoking at my pool room, but Ill be damned if they'll stop me at home." And home is probably a place not much different than the poolroom, where everything smells like an ashtray. Where the furniture, the TV screen, and the curtains in the window, are a bit off color because of a thin film of tar and nicotine. Where the kids have more colds each year than their friends do. A place where you find a pack of smokes and a book of matches under your teenagers mattress, and then wonder what ever motivated them to take up such an unhealthy habit.
It is not my intent to deprive you, or anyone else of their liberties, nor spend half a day writing these damnable soap box oratories. It is, however, my wish that we all enjoy good health, in or out of the poolroom. A smoke filled environment will not allow that happen.
And, just so you'll know. I smoked for twenty-eight years. As a result I have had three heart attacks, four angiograms, two stents installed, and two coronary by-pass operations. Other than that, I feel peachy.
If you are not a smoker then I apologize for the reference.
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Yeah, well sitting next to you while you eat a cheese burger isn't going to bother my health. But, when you smoke it does. Food is a really poor analogy, by-the-way.
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#1 - Nobody os forcing you to sit by me.

#2 - The owner not catering to my needs deprives me of the food that I want ... and I don't want to go elswhere. I want to make everyone else cater to what I want. After all it's ME.

Now ... is there any example of a pool hall that MADE you enter and MADE you stay?

If so ... I'm with you.

If not ... you are making the same argument that I made in point #2. I know you'll say that's different ... because it's YOU.

LWW
 
Hierovision said:
My right causes ZERO "injury"
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Do you have a "right" to play in any pool room? I don't think I'd agree if I owned a pool room. I might want and even need your business, but as an owner who reserves the right to refuse service, any rights pertaining to who plays in my room would ultimately be mine.
 
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Hierovision said:
Any public establishment that exercises their liberty by allowing smoking is injuring my equal liberty to not die of cancer.
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1 - Jefferson was a smoker.

2 - Jefferson would blow smoke in your face as he laughed at you over that argument.

3 - I do not believe that any pool hall has ever forced you to enter.

4 - I believe that every pool hall you have ever entered, you entered because you chose to.

5 - Does second hand smoke carry a health risk? Probably. So what. So does other cars on the highway. By your logic, when I want to go for a drive I should be able to demand that the roadways be cleared of other cars because one of them might kill or injure me.

Apply this tyrannical logic to anything else and it appears ridiculous.

Get over yourself.

LWW
 
Ponytail said:
For those that want a smoke free poolhall. The answer is very simple. Start one.

Get some investors and start a smoke free pool hall. Do it in your community. Where ever you are. Start one.

Then.. when everyone sees how well you're doing, they too will take the appropriate action.

Everyone wants to cry and gripe, and say we need this law and that law.

No.. we don't. Come up with a business model, and implement that model. Build it and they will come. That's what makes this country great. You have the freedom to open a business for a need, for which you can provide a service.

But.... I think the reality is... people want others to be forced to do what they think is right.
The reality is... No one is forcing you to play pool.
No one is forcing you to play pool in a bar/poolhall.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people smoke.
No one is forcing you to go anywhere people drink, smell bad, eat fatty foods, swear, pick their noses, etc.. (maybe you get the point....?)
If you want a poolhall, that is smoke free. You are free to open one. No one is forcing you NOT to do this. If there is a high demand for this, you will be very successful.

I hope everyone has an enjoyable rest of the day... and weekend.
Click to expand...

Rep for common sense.

LWW
 
Tramp Steamer said:
I take it you're a smoker. One of those who, as I mentioned earlier, believe the right to smoke was endowed by our creator, or something like that. Someone who says, "They may pass a law to ban smoking at my pool room, but Ill be damned if they'll stop me at home." And home is probably a place not much different than the poolroom, where everything smells like an ashtray. Where the furniture, the TV screen, and the curtains in the window, are a bit off color because of a thin film of tar and nicotine. Where the kids have more colds each year than their friends do. A place where you find a pack of smokes and a book of matches under your teenagers mattress, and then wonder what ever motivated them to take up such an unhealthy habit.
It is not my intent to deprive you, or anyone else of their liberties, nor spend half a day writing these damnable soap box oratories. It is, however, my wish that we all enjoy good health, in or out of the poolroom. A smoke filled environment will not allow that happen.
And, just so you'll know. I smoked for twenty-eight years. As a result I have had three heart attacks, four angiograms, two stents installed, and two coronary by-pass operations. Other than that, I feel peachy.
If you are not a smoker then I apologize for the reference.
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I'm not a smoker....

I just don't think creating laws are the answer to THIS issue.
 
Ponytail said:
I'm not a smoker....

I just don't think creating laws are the answer to THIS issue.
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In the past I shared my story on the forum. Short recap - When I was 28 I was diagnosed with Tonsil Cancer. I never smoked and rarely drank. The doctors were shocked by my diagnosis. The only thing that anyone could point to was the amount of time that I spent in smoky pool halls. That may or may not have been the cause of my Cancer, but I stopped playing pool for several years because there were no options. No places at that time were smoke free. So I had to give up the game I loved so much. In the last several years, the laws in DC, Maryland, and now VA have allowed me to enjoy the game that I love again. For people like me, the laws ARE the answer, and they are the only answer. Before those laws, I NEVER HEARD OF ONE SMOKE FREE POOL HALL within 150 miles of DC. Politically, I disagree with having laws for everything and telling people how to run their business, but when people's health are at stake, it's time for someone to step in.
 
mapman72 said:
In the past I shared my story on the forum. Short recap - When I was 28 I was diagnosed with Tonsil Cancer. I never smoked and rarely drank. The doctors were shocked by my diagnosis. The only thing that anyone could point to was the amount of time that I spent in smoky pool halls. That may or may not have been the cause of my Cancer, but I stopped playing pool for several years because there were no options. No places at that time were smoke free. So I had to give up the game I loved so much. In the last several years, the laws in DC, Maryland, and now VA have allowed me to enjoy the game that I love again. For people like me, the laws ARE the answer, and they are the only answer. Before those laws, I NEVER HEARD OF ONE SMOKE FREE POOL HALL within 150 miles of DC. Politically, I disagree with having laws for everything and telling people how to run their business, but when people's health are at stake, it's time for someone to step in.
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Finally! A voice in the wilderness. Thank you, my friend.
 
mapman72 said:
In the past I shared my story on the forum. Short recap - When I was 28 I was diagnosed with Tonsil Cancer. I never smoked and rarely drank. The doctors were shocked by my diagnosis. The only thing that anyone could point to was the amount of time that I spent in smoky pool halls. That may or may not have been the cause of my Cancer, but I stopped playing pool for several years because there were no options. No places at that time were smoke free. So I had to give up the game I loved so much. In the last several years, the laws in DC, Maryland, and now VA have allowed me to enjoy the game that I love again. For people like me, the laws ARE the answer, and they are the only answer. Before those laws, I NEVER HEARD OF ONE SMOKE FREE POOL HALL within 150 miles of DC. Politically, I disagree with having laws for everything and telling people how to run their business, but when people's health are at stake, it's time for someone to step in.
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You stopped playing pool because you didn't like the option, not because you didn't have any options. (I would have chosen the same... but it was still a choice.) Other options could have been getting your own table. Didn't have room? Work to get a place that does have room. Find a rec center that has a pool table. Most of those are smoke free.

My wife co-owns a couple of pool rooms here in Texas. Rusty's Billiards (Shameless plug). One of those rooms has a non-smoking section. There is a wall between the two sections, so it really is smoke free. On the non-smoking side, there are 10 tables. 9 8 footers, and an 9 footer. There is about the same on the smoking side, but it does have more 9 footers.

There are people that come here just because it's a smoke free environment.

(BTW. The other room has 4 smoke eaters in it. It remains fairly smoke free... fairly...)

My point is.... if there is a demand for something, someone will see there is a profit to be made, filling that demand.

Another choice you had, was to start up a room that was no smoking.
There are lots of ways to start up a business. The key is to go out and find those ways. But this takes effort, and most people don't want to put forth that much effort. I said most... They would rather cry about how their rights to go play pool are being infringed upon, when they don't have a right to play pool. They may have a desire. But not a right.

They do have a right to voice their opinions to the room owners. They have a right to try to get a room owner to change their policy. They have a right to go into business and compete with that room owner if they so choose.

And again.. I am a non-smoker. I don't like smoking. Do I wish smoking would go away forever.. yes I do. It's a nasty, gross, disgusting habit. But the way to change things in a business, is to show a better way of doing things, that will attract more money. Not by making laws that may or may not hurt those businesses.
 
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