Poolology: Side Pocket Aiming

7

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a couple of questions about Side Pocket Aiming:

1. When would the end rail position value of 75 ever come into play? Keep in mind that the author of Poolology has said that Poolology does not work well for 1/8 ball cuts and that Poolology isn't applicable to thinner cuts than 1/8 ball cuts. In other words, as the alignment value gets close to the position value, you are on your own.

2. There is an example where the ob is on the position line 60, and it says that anywhere between 30 on the side rail and 30 on the end rail will work with a 1/2 ball cut. But, I find I have to use a 3/8 cut when the alignment value is 30 on the end rail. Anyone else seeing that? I find that re-labeling the 30 end rail diamond to 40 works better: the overhang is 40/60, or 2/3, which means the overlap is 1/3 (33/100) or about a 3/8 cut (0.375).
 
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7stud said:
I have a couple of questions about Side Pocket Aiming:

1. When would the end rail position value of 75 ever come into play?
Click to expand...

ANSWER: Probably never.

Keep in mind that the author of Poolology has said that Poolology does not work well for 1/8 ball cuts and that Poolology isn't applicable to thinner cuts than 1/8 ball cuts. In other words, as the alignment value gets close to the position value, you are on your own.

2. There is an example where the ob is on the position line 60, and it says that anywhere between 30 on the side rail and 30 on the end rail will work with a 1/2 ball cut. But, I find I have to use a 3/8 cut when the alignment value is 30 on the end rail. Anyone else seeing that? I find that re-labeling the 30 end rail diamond as 40 works better: the overhang is 40/60, or 2/3, which means the overlap is 1/3 (33/100) or about a 3/8 cut (0.375).
Click to expand...

There could be several factors causing the halfball aim not to work for you: Side pocket could be tighter than about 5 1/8 inches. Your cb could be too close to the ob, forcing the shot to be a little thinner than a halfball. You could be causing more throw than normal, depending on how you're hitting the cb. The system could be less accurate at that particular position on the table.

A good medium speed with draw or follow works for me just fine, with about 12 inches or more between cb and ob. But it's a tight shot when using the 30 on the end rail, meaning it's very close to not hitting the pocket.

Paying attention to where the ball hits is what's important, because that's how the system helps you develop a good eye/feel for the shots. The system provides solid and consistent aiming references, but not every line or number works perfectly from everywhere. However, your eyes work. So what's important is to learn how to use the aiming references in conjunction with your own visual awareness.

Like I said, the shot is close to missing when using the 30 on the end rail. But it's dead on when using the 30 on the side rail. That exact shot can be made using a halfball aim reference as long as the alignment line hits anywhere between 30 on the side rail and the middle of the corner pocket. With bigger side pockets, or when using draw or folllow or a touch of outside spin, it goes in pretty sporty when the alignment value is at 30 on the end rail.

Anyway, nothing says you can't use a 3/8 hit instead. In fact, that's how you develop aiming skills - you recognize when a certain aiming reference has reached its limits, and therefore you aim thinner, or thicker as needed.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Have you tried measuring the cut angles of the troublesome shots?
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I'll print out the angle template tomorrow. From practicing the shot, I know it's a thinner cut than a half ball hit--the angle is between 30 (1/2 ball hit) and 49 degrees (1/4 ball hit)--close to 39 degrees I would guess.
 
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7stud said:
I'll print out the angle template tomorrow. From practicing the shot, I know it's a thinner cut than a half ball hit--the angle is between 30 (1/2 ball hit) and 49 degrees (1/4 ball hit)--close to 39 degrees I would guess.
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It's a 34° cut to center pocket. So the example shot is a little off, but not by much, about a 3 mm aim difference. Aim a quarter tip thinner than a dead halfball.

Like I keep saying, the system is not perfect, due to the fact that it was designed using circular patterns, not the straight lines shown in the book. Straightlining the postion values made it more user-friendly, but unfortunately it also introduced some inaccuracies here and there, mainly with the difference between long rail and short rail diamond references.

I need to correct some things in the book, I suppose. But the main goal of Poolology is to help players learn/develop aiming skills. Despite its inaccuracies, the references provide consistent and solid aiming data to help with visualizing cut shots.

It's a training tool, but it requires the player to pay attention to the little subtleties here and there when needed (a touch thinner on some shots, a touch thicker on others, but pretty damn spot on for the vast majority of shots).
 
On the steeper cuts to the side pocket I believe Poolology cuts to center pocket, when it's steep, I hit the close nipple of the pocket. I do the alignment and just cut a hair thinner on those. Works for me.

Again, when the alignment value equals the position value, I find this is usually just a quarter ball hit, 45 degree cut.

Look at the corner pocket as an example. 10/10, 20/20, 30/30. The cue and OB is straight on to rail and the ball is up and down between the corner to side pocket. This is a straight on spot shot (20/20).

When rise over run are equal, the triangle is 90, 45, 45 if memory serves me correctly.

If your OB value is higher than your alignment value, your doing something wrong.
 
Thresh said:
On the steeper cuts to the side pocket I believe Poolology cuts to center pocket, when it's steep, I hit the close nipple of the pocket. I do the alignment and just cut a hair thinner on those. Works for me.
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You seem to say that Poolology gets you to center pocket, but you don't like that. Why? Isn't your margin for error greatest when the shot line is to the center of the pocket?

Thresh said:
If your OB value is higher than your alignment value, your doing something wrong.
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I think you have that backwards--the position value is almost always greater than the alignment value. The overhang is found by:

alignment value / position value

Because that is usually a fraction less than 1, the alignment value is usually smaller than the position value.
 
7stud said:
You seem to say that Poolology gets you to center pocket, but you don't like that. Why? Isn't your margin for error greatest when the shot line is to the center of the pocket?


I think you have that backwards--the position value is almost always greater than the alignment value. The overhang is found by:

alignment value / position value

Because that is usually a fraction less than 1, the alignment value is usually smaller than the position value.
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Yes I just it backwards, correct.
 
For each position line there is a sweet spot area where the balls go center pocket. However, the farther the ob gets from this sweet spot the more it begins to track left or right of center pocket. That's because straightlining the system had to involve using the entire pocket. But if the player pays attention to results, to exactly where the ob goes (especially when the results aren't as accurate as you expect), the mind will automatically begin fine-tuning as needed. This builds subconscious aiming skills.

For example, after using any aiming system for a while, and paying attention to where the ob goes on each shot, you'll eventually reach a point where you are not quite using the system anymore. You simple look at a shot and your subconscious mind compares it to known references and you find yourself lining up for the shot. Contrary to what some people might think, that is the end goal of the Poolology system -- to become system-free.
 
Here is what the system looked like before it was straightlined. There was a 60 for the end rail 30 (red) and a 60 for the side rail 30 (blue)...

Screenshot_20230713-104139_Gallery.jpg


With the ob anywhere on the red line and the cb-ob line pointing to the red 30, it's a dead halfball shot (with at least 10" or more between cb and ob).
Same goes for the blue line. But it's a bit difficult to imagine these arcs, and so I got to thinking that just having solid and consistent references to help guide the player to an accurate aim point would be a great training tool. So I straightlined all the arcs and made one position line for each value. Some lines are more accurate/precise than others, but it is what it is in order to not be too complicated looking.

Some say it's too complicated anyway, but imagine what it would look like with two arcs called 20, two called 30, and so on... It would be much more accurate, but not very user-friendly at all.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Have you tried measuring the cut angles of the troublesome shots?
Click to expand...
With the 60 position value and 30 alignment value on the long rail, I get an angle of ~23 degrees(the 20 degree line points at one side of the pocket, and the 25 degree line points at the other side of the pocket). With the 60 position value and 30 alignment value on the end rail, I get an angle of ~30 degrees (the 30 degree line points to the middle of the pocket), so a 7 degree difference.

I measured the side pocket at 5 1/4".
 
7stud said:
With the 60 position value and 30 alignment value on the long rail, I get an angle of ~23 degrees(the 20 degree line points at one side of the pocket, and the 25 degree line points at the other side of the pocket). With the 60 position value and 30 alignment value on the end rail, I get an angle of ~30 degrees (the 30 degree line points to the middle of the pocket), so a 7 degree difference.

I measured the side pocket at 5 1/4".
Click to expand...

I don't believe you're measuring the angles properly. The shot angle is not derived from the centerline of the balls. Here are the measured angles, which shows the system being off by about 5° with the end rail 30, but very accurate for the side rail 30.... (a halfball shot comes off closer to 28-29° due to collision-induced throw)

Screenshot_20230714-003603_Billard Aiming Calculator Pro.jpg
Screenshot_20230714-003011_Billard Aiming Calculator Pro.jpg
 
BC21 said:
I don't believe you're measuring the angles properly. The shot angle is not derived from the centerline of the balls.
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I was just watching a Shortstop on Pool video, and he mentioned that the angle is measured from the line of centers of the *ghost* ball and the cb. I'll try again to see if I can come up with your numbers. What app are you using to measure the angle?
 
7stud said:
I was just watching a Shortstop on Pool video, and he mentioned that the angle is measured from the line of centers of the *ghost* ball and the cb. I'll try again to see if I can come up with your numbers. What app are you using to measure the angle?
Click to expand...

Billard Aiming Calculator

(Yep, "Billard"... it is mispelled. Lol)
 
Bob Jewett said:
For French and German it's spelled gud but the other words are wrong.
Click to expand...
I've been trying to use Dr. Dave's angle template, and I have to admit I'm befuddled. The thing makes no sense to me. I think the 90 line on the template should be relabeled 0, and the 0 line's should be relabeled 90, with the other lines numbered accordingly.
 
7stud said:
I've been trying to use Dr. Dave's angle template, and I have to admit I'm befuddled. The thing makes no sense to me. I think the 90 line on the template should be relabeled 0, and the 0 line's should be relabeled 90, with the other lines numbered accordingly.
Click to expand...
maybe you should put out an aiming system and template that meets your quality control
everyone would buy it based on your reputation for detail....;)
 
7stud said:
I've been trying to use Dr. Dave's angle template, and I have to admit I'm befuddled. The thing makes no sense to me. I think the 90 line on the template should be relabeled 0, and the 0 line's should be relabeled 90, with the other lines numbered accordingly.
Click to expand...
Makes sense to me. Here's how I visualize it:
- The measles cue ball below is in the ghost ball position.
- The numbers 0 to 90 represent the cut angles when the cue ball comes from those directions to cut the object ball in the direction shown.
- The red and blue lines represent the cue ball's direction of approach for 90 degree (red lines) and 0 degree (blue line) cuts.

pj
chgo

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