"Pool's REAL FATAL FLAW"

[justnum]

Why don't you two guys take your rhetoric off of this thread, since it has absolutely nothing to do with it, and frankly...NOBODY CARES! Play your match (if it actually comes off), and you can report the score, if you like. But please, quit your fourth back-and-forth BS here.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

It is called "spam" because it is more of an advertisement or distraction than anything else. The posters on AZ recently are becoming better spammers, but their intentions are clear based on the content of their posts.

By drawing attention to their ideas it becomes a "tangent of the thread."

I suggest just to post about the ideas you want to get out.

Like how pool's real fatal flaw are the investors from 40 years ago that got us in the mess we are in today. Their poor investing and lack of developing a self-sustaining infrastructure is causing a lot of heartbreak and headaches across the industry and fan community.

I guess when the business people tasted success they wanted to taste the best pieces of it by spending all their profits on non-business development investments. From what I can tell the operations and planning are all pretty much the same today as back then, meaning if they were making money they spent it on their bills and didn't have any for expanding the business or didn't know how to grow the business.

It happens in industries all the time. The important thing is the people that survived all the turmoil take the reins and pony up and start deciding what should happen to pool instead of fixing the mess the old people left. The question to answer is "what should have happened forty years ago that didn't?" Was the industry to focused on selling instead of investing? Was the industry unable to learn that they had a surge of interest that will fade? And what did the industry do to try to make sure it the pool community has strong traditions or some core values to keep alive?

As amazing as the BPA video was in which Archer made it clear that "whats in the past is in the past." They aren't interested in giving up on the old guys, they are interested in seeing them succeed as well. And they are laying out plans for the business people to help themselves with player ideas.

 

[paksat]

So wait a minute.

U get the 6 and the other dude gets the 7&8?

How does that work?

This stupid while and I am one pissed off...

What you said^ this seems to be running all over the forum these days.

OP you need to re-think about how you're going to post if you're going to just insult someone without some serious substance.

 

[paksat]

I'll completely disagree with you because I don't think money will solve anything.

Pool has had money before.

We had it with RJ Reynolds.

We had it with Kevin Trudeau.

You can watch guys betting it up big in live streams for 5 figures.

The money is there.

What pool is seriously lacking, is maturity. I've been watching very closely for a long time. You could throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at some people, and they will still land flat on their asss because they don't how to effectively manage themselves or their money. In the absence of maturity, money will only makes things worse - or it will further complicate things.

If there is no return on the investment in the game of pool, why continue tossing money at it? The money and the financing should be there because we either earned it or attracted it - not because we begged for it or on some level believed that we deserved it.

People have been BORED watching tournament pool since the sixties - we need to change our success formula. I believe that when people produce live streams, they should produce them in the same way they would present the product to a television network. They should have professional quality commentary - not whomever grabbed the seat or the mic to BS with their buddies in the chat room, swearing, being immature. That might be a lot of fun, but IMO, it says a lot about the attitudes people have about pool getting out of this rut. That tells me that some people are comfortable with the way things are. I know a lot of people won't like me saying that, but its true - and I have scores of people (in and out of pool) that agree with that. You can have the best quality live stream in the world, but without a professional appearance and presentation to your product, you won't attract sponsors or positively promote the game at all.

Adjust the attitudes and maturity levels, and perhaps you'll see some changes. Until that happens it will be business as usual.

Damn good post blackjack, you're completely right

 

[paksat]

The real flaw is billiards need to be run by professionals not investors.

Most of the events are run like investors trying to be professionals.

And when investors manage events they can be real cheap sometimes.

Some of the player match-ups aren't even announced via email or posted on a website.

The incorporation of technology to run events is severely deficient almost to the point it is third world, at least in America.

When pool popped and technology peaked the two never met. I see a pool tournament today is run the same way it was 40 years ago, poorly and unprofessionally.

I will be very specific if your interested in a more detailed opinion.

Let's hear it, looks like everyone is going all out today anyway.

 

[justnum]

Damn good post blackjack, you're completely right

The only attitudes that can be changed are the players, the business people are still sobering up from their half century long party. So now that the idea has passed, anyone have suggestions on what a professional pool players life should be like in the course of a year.

I am thinking they should have some exposure to business aspects of the billiards industry and know all the "cronies" in the industry and how they have "messed up players in the past."

The first step is a black list or black book detailed all and any incidents of oppression, discrimination or ignorance by pool organizers or tournament operators. Call it a list of things that should never happen, have the chance to happen or should be planned for to prevent from happening.

Number 1 on that list would be ensure that players can receive or obtain proof or notification that all prize money is available prior to a tournament or proof that prize money can be paid on time regardless of how much money is brought in during an event. If the prize cannot be paid in full when the tournament starts players be notified before any competitive play begins.

 

[justnum]

Let's hear it, looks like everyone is going all out today anyway.

I will limit my comments to being constructive.

The first comment is that players of obscenely high skill level not be allowed to compete with players of disgustingly lower skill level. There has to be a clear qualification or class to differentiate which players should be competing against top pros.

In some cases pros beating on new guys doesn't really prove anything, its a wasted match for the pro and a non-developmental experience for the new person. Sure it can happen but let's be realistic.

The second thing matchups and match up annoucements have to be planned better. Scheduling a match for a player to play after 10 hours of grueling tournament play is wrong. It is reasonable that some matches go long and whatever the consensus between the players is should decide what happens next. In other words if a match runs long and the winner/loser is to play after 3 hours sleep, that the next match be postponed to allow the player get adequate sleep (6 hour min.).

Before I outline a whole series of policies I will just cite these two as the most important.

 

[justnum]

When players sign up to pay for a tournament they be given a receipt or some specific knowledge about what their entry fee is financing.

If the entry fee is for filling the prize pot be explicit. If it is used to reimburse costs for tournament expenses says so.

There has to be a control that protects players from being a victim of theft.

Some new promoter could decide to run a tournament and then take the entry fee and skip town. That situation should be planned for. I am still working out the ideas for a solution.

In some industries instead of using cash people use a voucher system, like a line of credit, this way the running with the money doesn't happen. A money manager says ok I will collect these fees and it will be reserved for prizes and only prizes, and the completion of the event the manager releases the funds for the promoter to use for paying out prizes.

It sounds complicated but it is easier to understand when you just see it.

 

[paksat]

I will limit my comments to being constructive.

The first comment is that players of obscenely high skill level not be allowed to compete with players of disgustingly lower skill level. There has to be a clear qualification or class to differentiate which players should be competing against top pros.

In some cases pros beating on new guys doesn't really prove anything, its a wasted match for the pro and a non-developmental experience for the new person. Sure it can happen but let's be realistic.

The second thing matchups and match up annoucements have to be planned better. Scheduling a match for a player to play after 10 hours of grueling tournament play is wrong. It is reasonable that some matches go long and whatever the consensus between the players is should decide what happens next. In other words if a match runs long and the winner/loser is to play after 3 hours sleep, that the next match be postponed to allow the player get adequate sleep (6 hour min.).

Before I outline a whole series of policies I will just cite these two as the most important.

I completely approve, carry on.

 

[justnum]

I completely approve, carry on.

The remaining ideas are not ready for publication it will needs to be translated for the AZ community, but they concern:

Outlining responsibilities that tournaments are required to take on.
Stuff like whose job is it to get the group discount at the hotel.
A clear set of known policies for player ejections and player forfeits.
Mostly the boring stuff about tournament operations and promotions.
( I don't want to be technical yet.)

 

[paksat]

The remaining ideas are not ready for publication it will needs to be translated for the AZ community, but they concern:

Outlining responsibilities that tournaments are required to take on.
Stuff like whose job is it to get the group discount at the hotel.
A clear set of known policies for player ejections and player forfeits.
Mostly the boring stuff about tournament operations and promotions.
( I don't want to be technical yet.)

I know where you're going, i'll pm when i'm in feeling better.

 

[Blackjack]

OMG David. that's a great post. Been waiting a long time for somebody to state the obvious (from a sponsor's viewpoint). Pool people are so far from understanding this very basic premise that there really is almost no hope for the game to move forward.

Yeah... I have this bad habit of making sense years before anybody is willing to agree with me. It's a blessing and a curse. lol

BTW... I sent you a PM with the tracking number for those items.

 

[justnum]

Yeah... I have this bad habit of making sense years before anybody is willing to agree with me. It's a blessing and a curse. lol

BTW... I sent you a PM with the tracking number for those items.

Your not the only one with logical and critical thinking skills.

The real problem is making sure the people that should have those skills have them.

"Blessing and curse" quit selling sitcom quotes, those lines are cheaper than the paperbacks sold at a supermarket. I think it breaks down to about $0.000005 per word.

 

[UGETTHE6]

The remaining ideas are not ready for publication it will needs to be translated for the AZ community, but they concern:

Outlining responsibilities that tournaments are required to take on.
Stuff like whose job is it to get the group discount at the hotel.
A clear set of known policies for player ejections and player forfeits.
Mostly the boring stuff about tournament operations and promotions.
( I don't want to be technical yet.)

Is this being brought up because of earl being ejected at the sbe ? Just askiing.

 

[justnum]

Is this being brought up because of earl being ejected at the sbe ? Just askiing.

Yes hot topics are easy to sell.

I'd much rather bring up old issues that the IPT left unsolved. But I figure most people forgot about that stress inducer.

 

[justnum]

When the players are on tour or at events they have no one to complain too, many of the issues I raise are things I would want to vent out if I was a player in that situation.

Pretty much the flaw is players do not openly complain. Complaints are healthy versions of demands

There were so many things I saw at the events I attended. But whats past is past, the important thing is how and who is going to develop a better future and what ideas need to be developed to have a clear vision.

 

[Patso44]

Agreed!

I'll completely disagree with you because I don't think money will solve anything.

Pool has had money before.

We had it with RJ Reynolds.

We had it with Kevin Trudeau.

You can watch guys betting it up big in live streams for 5 figures.

The money is there.

What pool is seriously lacking, is maturity. I've been watching very closely for a long time. You could throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at some people, and they will still land flat on their asss because they don't how to effectively manage themselves or their money. In the absence of maturity, money will only makes things worse - or it will further complicate things.

If there is no return on the investment in the game of pool, why continue tossing money at it? The money and the financing should be there because we either earned it or attracted it - not because we begged for it or on some level believed that we deserved it.

People have been BORED watching tournament pool since the sixties - we need to change our success formula. I believe that when people produce live streams, they should produce them in the same way they would present the product to a television network. They should have professional quality commentary - not whomever grabbed the seat or the mic to BS with their buddies in the chat room, swearing, being immature. That might be a lot of fun, but IMO, it says a lot about the attitudes people have about pool getting out of this rut. That tells me that some people are comfortable with the way things are. I know a lot of people won't like me saying that, but its true - and I have scores of people (in and out of pool) that agree with that. You can have the best quality live stream in the world, but without a professional appearance and presentation to your product, you won't attract sponsors or positively promote the game at all.

Adjust the attitudes and maturity levels, and perhaps you'll see some changes. Until that happens it will be business as usual.

I would have agree to this quote on this post. The money might not fix the problem and again the live streams have lacked tremendously in maturity. Bring into the quality commentators and explain the real depths of the game as it is played. I think you would need to bring in the real business minds to fix the problems....

 

[paksat]

I would have agree to this quote on this post. The money might not fix the problem and again the live streams have lacked tremendously in maturity. Bring into the quality commentators and explain the real depths of the game as it is played. I think you would need to bring in the real business minds to fix the problems....

I think someone like John schmidt is exactly what pool needs. He brings excitement and cleverness to commentating which is exactly what is needed.

Not to mention, he is an incredible player so there you are what more could you possibly ask for.

 

[master9baller]

A good run

Well I think this game just needs more action, everywhere. Tonight $180 for 1st in the local 9 ball weekly. After the tournamnet 3 $100 sets straight, ended giving 8 and a game to a very borderline A player. Yesterday's take another $300 spotting the 8 to a solid A player. Plus Sundays $300 in the 2nd chance Joss tour undefeated vs. 6 AA and A players. I dont see anything wrong with this game, $1080 in 3 days, please.

Do I care about pro level pool, sure I do. What I care about more is having good events to go to nearby and all the action I can find in my backyard.

Mike if you are serious I'm on for Sunday. The room owner's son Chuck has my cell number, he's working Sunday and I told him to call me when you arrive. They have 2 tables that were just reclothed for the Joss tour and play very nicely.

I know some of your people may want some of this too, I'm good for several hundred more, perhaps $1000 total.

I'm playing the best I have this year and can't wait to show that to anyone who cares to watch, matchup or side bet.

 

[master9baller]

Please Brian, you wipe asses for a living. I work for a Multi-Million Dollar company in NYC so, you can **** off.

And I never said anything about the rules touch hole.

10 ball 7 out, race to 11 for $500. That’s the game, you called it. Or we can play your MASTER game, and play 9 ball with the 6 out, remember Brian YOU called me OUT. I never said anything to you and never said I wanted to gamble, you’re the one who set the line.

Just remember again, YOU called me out, I will take your ass wiping money, and BURN it as soon as I win it. Because your money is nothing to me. You probably make what I make, probably not a dime more.

Look up the professional licenses in NYS and you will see my name idiot.

Just remember when you DON'T Agree to this game, it's because your a pussy and CANT HANDLE what you BARK.

You woofed it, now play it, and you got a bet. Hell scum bag, I'll let you take my whole check, bet up to $2000, I'll send you home to your wife begging for money.

So you want the last 4 balls called now? Even you aren't that bad and you are horrible.

We have a guy you know who plays in our weekly tournament, almost 70, had a stroke and multiple other illnesses and his spot is the 6 out called. Guess what? He even won 1st place once. What events have you ever won, zero to my knowledge.

You are a joke. Don't bother coming Sunday if this is what you call heart you POS. What a clown.

BTW I don't wipe ass I write prescriptions, diagnose illness and treat cancer patients with real issues daily. I have a Master's degree and make a lot more than a guy who mows lawns in Denver.

http://http://newyorksecuritylicense.com/8_pre-16.htm
Oh yeah you don't mow lawns anymore that's right. You are a licensed mall cop. Well now I can sleep safely at night. Good job Mr. Blart.

 

[master9baller]

There was 1 pissed off player. Ask Allen where the money is, I don't have it, never did. All my money I earn, Allen ows me about $8,000 in my mind since I spent $19,000 on my year long road trip and the contract we signed, it was an equal buisness partnership.

So Brain again learn your facts before you open your mouth.

No one is owed anything from the DMIRO tour I am way past it, and frankly it hasn;t been brought up in a year, until I very stupidly decided to write on this forum again.

Brain I probably shouldn't show up to Salt City again, beucase it will take all the energy in my body not to punch you in the ****ing face.

But I will I will let your dumb ass take a swing at MY money, that I EARNED. Should we bring pay stubs and comapre, since you always seem to belittle me, and want to have a cock size contest.
Your upset beucase no one in the pool world cares about little Brian Lipes, you walk to up me talking to Mika or Shane at TS to try and act like my freind so you can say hi to them like it's all that big of a deal. You always try and suck my dick everytime you see me, and I try and be nice to you beucase I feel sorry for such a sad sack of shit. Do your self and the WORLD a favor, find a rock and hide.

- Richard.

You are one twisted head case. Is that what this is all about? Do you think I'm pretty? Why would a normal man go the places you do?

One last time, you are getting the world. 10 ball pro rules, 8+9 ball called, race to $500 posted money. Take it or leave it. Not taking it will show that you have none of the self-reported heart you proclaim.

Christ, I never had anyone except Grau give me the last 2 before the money ball called, ever. Nobody every gave, me the 6 out either. Pretty slick asking for a spot that is so out of line, people will understand that you are the problem here.

BTW, unlike yourself, as a mature adult I really don't give a rat's ass what every one thinks. You are a flawed individual, mentally and emotionally arrested at the developmental level of a 10 year old. What's the background story there. The other kids didn't play with you when you were a child? You need professional help son.