Possible new rule in Viking Tour events. Opinions wanted, please

[akaTrigger]

I have an honest question. Why do you believe that just because it's only certain players that that means they are sharking? Do these individuals cause other problems besides being picky about the rack? Is it possible that these certain players just have a higher (or different) standard of what a good rack is?

A lot of times, I look at a rack and I'm not too thrilled about how it looks, but since it doesn't appear to be a complete dud, I'll just break it anyway. I rarely ask someone to re-rack, just because I don't want to cause a production. But I'm not thrilled about it. I could see where if I stood up for the rack I want (similar to the rack I might give) it really could take a while to get one from some players and I might be labeled some kind of troublemaker or shark because of that.

Another problem with rack-for-each-other is that if a picky rack-recipient is on a table for the first time, he won't know how good or bad a table is racking until it's their opponent's turn to break. So he might not realize at first that he should lower his standards and let his racker off the hook, due to a tough-racking table.

I didn't mean to imply all players that check the racks and want a rereack are sharking - but the ones that are recurring "offenders" sometimes are. If someone sees that indeed it needs to be reracked and they want it racked again - that's not sharking imo, no. But, if they keep asking every player on all the tables they play on, or do it only when they are down in the match, it seems like sharking to me.

I love honest questions!

 

[ne14tennis]

There are people

I didn't mean to imply all players that check the racks and want a rereack are sharking - but the ones that are recurring "offenders" sometimes are. If someone sees that indeed it needs to be reracked and they want it racked again - that's not sharking imo, no. But, if they keep asking every player on all the tables they play on, or do it only when they are down in the match, it seems like sharking to me.

I love honest questions!

When the BCAPL went to the rack your own, people here in Texas called it the "Name Omitted" rule. I think you know who I'm talking about. He would check the rack so often and request reracks that most of his opponents were ready to choke him.....come to think of it, someone did do that once if I remember correctly.

On the other hand he was as meticulous when racking for someone as he was when breaking. He just wanted good racks!

As for this threads orginal question, if I was in Mikes shoes, I would require them to rack for the opponent and each time they refuse, forfeit a game.

 

[av84fun]

Rigging racks clearly is a form of knowledge but it is against the rules and therefore is cheating.

There are some very smart bank robbers too but they can't plead the "knowledge defense" in court!

(-:

Jim

Not to beat a dead horse into the ground here, but I just don't get it . The best pool players in the world get to where they are at by combining physical skill, mental skill, KNOWLEDGE, and a little luck (at times). If a player has the KNOWLEDGE to know how to get a better rack and his opponent doesn't, then IMO he/she should be able to use this to HIS/HER advantage. The opponent should have the onus on him/her to acquire this knowledge for use in future events. Racking for yourself is the only way for a more knowledgable player (or I should say a more knowledgable racker) to use HIS/HER acquired skill in this circumstance.

If I'm playing Johnny Archer race to 11, alternate breaks, rack for yourself, and Johnny knows how to rack to insure himself that he makes a particular wing ball on every break, then he should be allowed to use this KNOWLEDGE that he has acquired. I have the same opportunities in life to learn the same type of racking techniques. It is solely up to me to "progress" my pool shooting abilities.

It would be up to TD's (or individuals if playing "head-to-head" action sets) to alter the rules to counteract this acquired knowledge.

Once again, this is just my opinion. I am but a small, inconsequential person in the pool community. There are probably many more people with more experience and smarts about this subject who can explain to me why a player shouldn't be allowed to use some knowledge they have learned.

Rack for yourself should be the standard, IMO.

Maniac

 

[Doug]

Opinions

Whatever rule you decide should be THE RULE however, IMO forfeit for refusal to rack seems counterproductive due to the fact that spectators came to see them play. Perhaps charging a racking fee (say $2 each rack) which could be added to the Calcutta could be one remedy. Tournament directors share a good part of the blame for such player behavior by not adhering to THEIR stated tournament guidelines. The first offense is committed is never starting a tournament at time stated. Immediately players get the message they are in charge of the tournament and entitled to special treatment. How many tournaments are delayed due to not enough spectators being present or a certain spectator called and said their golf round was delayed and they would be an hour late? Should TD's be fined an appropriate amount for delays?

 

[Cuebacca]

I drew the analogy earlier to other sports. Since no one has given an example of another sport that has the equivalent of rack-for-each-other, I'll give one: baseball.

In baseball, the opposing team's pitcher pitches to your batter. So maybe we should make racking more like that. Pitch me a rack, and if I don't want to swing at it, I can call the ump over to check the rack. If it's deemed a bad rack, the racker gets some punishment for it. If it's deemed good, I get a punishment for wasting the ump's time.

Right now, it's like baseball except they can throw all the balls they want and there's never a walk. What's up with that? :shocked2:

 

[Maniac]

Rigging racks clearly is a form of knowledge but it is against the rules and therefore is cheating.

There are some very smart bank robbers too but they can't plead the "knowledge defense" in court!

(-:

Jim

It wouldn't have to be cheating if BOTH players had the knowledge on how to rack for him/herself. BOTH players have the opportunity to help themselves. If one didn't have the knowledge (which is out there for anyone to learn) then that would just be tough $hit for the one who chose to NOT gain this knowledge. Besides, rack-rigging doesn't guarantee anything, certainly anything that can't be fixed by a smart TD, and each player still has the task of running-out.

Comparing bank robbers with pool players is like comparing apples to cinder blocks. Not even closely related.

Maniac

 

[ShootingArts]

not on the same page

Maniac,

You aren't even on the same page. Rack rigging can make the nine most of the time, no run out needed. Then the game becomes a rack rigging contest not nine ball.

Hu

It wouldn't have to be cheating if BOTH players had the knowledge on how to rack for him/herself. BOTH players have the opportunity to help themselves. If one didn't have the knowledge (which is out there for anyone to learn) then that would just be tough $hit for the one who chose to NOT gain this knowledge. Besides, rack-rigging doesn't guarantee anything, certainly anything that can't be fixed by a smart TD, and each player still has the task of running-out.

Comparing bank robbers with pool players is like comparing apples to cinder blocks. Not even closely related.

Maniac

 

[av84fun]

It wouldn't have to be cheating if BOTH players had the knowledge on how to rack for him/herself. BOTH players have the opportunity to help themselves. If one didn't have the knowledge (which is out there for anyone to learn) then that would just be tough $hit for the one who chose to NOT gain this knowledge. Besides, rack-rigging doesn't guarantee anything, certainly anything that can't be fixed by a smart TD, and each player still has the task of running-out.

Comparing bank robbers with pool players is like comparing apples to cinder blocks. Not even closely related.

Maniac

You are missing the point entirely. Rack rigging violates the rules...period...and is therefore "illegal" regardless of whether both players are playing illegally.

So, intentionally illegal behavior on the part of a pool player makes the bank robber analogy entirely apt.

Regards,
Jim