Posted vid of break form

paksat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys,

I posted another vid on the tube. I'd like to get a vid up of me shooting some straight pool. But it's sorta impossible considering there's rarely anytime I got these tables to myself.

I took a couple quick snaps of my break form. Let me know if you have any suggestions or questions etc.

First vids up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqVdoFtzvM4

Second vid up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyYOVuYlb0k hittin about normal speed.

9 ball rack btw.
 
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Hey guys,

I posted another vid on the tube. I'd like to get a vid up of me shooting some straight pool. But it's sorta impossible considering there's rarely anytime I got these tables to myself.

I took a couple quick snaps of my break form. Let me know if you have any suggestions or questions etc.

First vids up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqVdoFtzvM4

Still waiting on second..

9 ball rack btw.

Sorry kiddo, there was nothing I liked about that break form.
1. Didn't like the open bridge
2. There was no power possible by the stance
3. There was no heart in it, you were just hitting the balls

What I would change

1. Closed bridge
2. Not everyone will agree but for me...I got more power by shorting the butt hand and bringing my bridge hand a little closer. Not sure if you can visualize what I'm saying...sorry bout that. But I broke much more solid...you were lacking that.
3. What do you want to do....make balls!!!! Show some heart...passion...BREAK THE BALLS!!!!

Just my 2 cents
 
Sorry kiddo, there was nothing I liked about that break form.
1. Didn't like the open bridge
2. There was no power possible by the stance
3. There was no heart in it, you were just hitting the balls

What I would change

1. Closed bridge
2. Not everyone will agree but for me...I got more power by shorting the butt hand and bringing my bridge hand a little closer. Not sure if you can visualize what I'm saying...sorry bout that. But I broke much more solid...you were lacking that.
3. What do you want to do....make balls!!!! Show some heart...passion...BREAK THE BALLS!!!!

Just my 2 cents

Tough, but true, I agree.
 
Here's my take on it:


For an arm-only break, that's pretty powerful. That's all stroke. I bet that break is up around 19-20mph as is. A lot of people can't hit the balls that hard even though they're throwing their body at it.

Once he gets body into it, it will be much more powerful. But he also says this is just 75%. If he gets some of that Bryant, Busta et al type of body action going - it will be huge.

But it takes a lot of time and work to learn to put that much body into a break AND be accurate. Meaning, good hit on 1 ball and proper hit on CB for CB control.

The modern power break goes contrary to what you are taught to do for a regular shot. We absolutely try to minimize all body movement when shooting, but in breaks - body movement is desired. That's why the break shot is the toughest. Stroking that cue straight and getting a precise hit on the cueball is tough when there's that much body movement going on. Not to mention, so many large muscles all firing off at high speed.


A lot of people push the power-break at all costs view point. I disagree. I say work your way up in a controlled manner. Control is huge. Proof that it is more important than all out power is the existence of soft and medium breaks. Meaning that there's a lot more to making balls than just all out power.


The guys that string racks all have one thing in common - and it's not complete and total super-power breaking. It's the ability to make a ball very often (and that is due to a variety of factors, knowledge and technique) and controlling the rock.


Therefore, there are two goals to a break:

1. Make a ball
2. Control CB


And #2 is almost nearly as important as #1. We have to give the edge in importance to making a ball because without that, you're back in the chair. That said, it's preferable to stay at the table even without a good shot or no shot at all. When at the table, you can always make something happen. Nothing happens in the chair.

But a lot of people make a big mistake getting fixated on what I just said. In reality and practicality, CB control is nearly it's equal because at the higher level, not controlling the CB catches up with you. In other words, it shuts down run outs and when you aren't generating a high enough percentage of run outs from your break - you will not be able to compete. In effect, it makes making a ball on the break nearly moot. That is what separates top pros from semi-pros. Tops pros get out more and that all begins with the break. They have that centrally located cueball that instantly leads to a higher percentage of good opening shot. That means getting and staying in line. That means less push out and safety battles. That means more winning.

Power/speed is merely a component of the greater goal of making a ball. There's more to it. If a pro is smashing the rack at 25.5 and not getting results, sometimes they turn it down to the 20-21mph range and start making a ball. There's rack analysis. CB position and a lot, lot more.


Therefore, making a ball is a goal - speed/power is a tool or device that can be used to achieve that goal. The goal is higher than the tool.


Shouldn't make a tool/device in your game the goal. That's what a lot of players fall into. The quest for generating speed at the cost of other considerations such as control.
 
paksat...Your bridge is too long. Even holding your cue way at the end, your forearm is still way past perpendicular when you strike the CB. Like Robin said, a closed bridge is better for a power stroke like this. I don't agree with the others that you need to put body weight into the break to make it effective. The weight of the cue and perfect timing is plenty of inertia to generate all the energy necessary to break the rack wide open, control the CB, and hopefully pocket a ball or more.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey guys,

I posted another vid on the tube. I'd like to get a vid up of me shooting some straight pool. But it's sorta impossible considering there's rarely anytime I got these tables to myself.

I took a couple quick snaps of my break form. Let me know if you have any suggestions or questions etc.

First vids up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqVdoFtzvM4

Still waiting on second..

9 ball rack btw.
 
You are athletic and have good timing.Traits that are hard to teach.Bend your bridge arm slightly.Shorten bridge length and corresponding grip location.I like the distance between your feet,but try pointing lead foot position down the line of the cue rather than at 45 degrees.The tension on your hamstring will pull you athletically accelerating through the shot.Weight distribution 55-45 forward.Don't slap.Power and accelerate down and through.A closed bridge is a must,more control.Practice from the side rails first then move out to the bed.You need to break well from many different areas and to change speeds.Learn the paths of balls out of the rack and adjust.You've got some tools as far as I can see.
 
On your YouTube home page there is a World Pool Masters video of Wu vs Souquet.With the score tied 4-4 check out Wu's body,arm and foot position on his break.
 
Sorry kiddo, there was nothing I liked about that break form.
1. Didn't like the open bridge
2. There was no power possible by the stance
3. There was no heart in it, you were just hitting the balls

What I would change

1. Closed bridge
2. Not everyone will agree but for me...I got more power by shorting the butt hand and bringing my bridge hand a little closer. Not sure if you can visualize what I'm saying...sorry bout that. But I broke much more solid...you were lacking that.
3. What do you want to do....make balls!!!! Show some heart...passion...BREAK THE BALLS!!!!

Just my 2 cents


It's a 9 ball break, why do I want maximum power for? I hit them harder then I needed to as it was.. sorry but those days of slamming the hell out of them are gone and out of date ( ask earl what he thinks of corey deuel )
 
Here's my take on it:


For an arm-only break, that's pretty powerful. That's all stroke. I bet that break is up around 19-20mph as is. A lot of people can't hit the balls that hard even though they're throwing their body at it.

Once he gets body into it, it will be much more powerful. But he also says this is just 75%. If he gets some of that Bryant, Busta et al type of body action going - it will be huge.

But it takes a lot of time and work to learn to put that much body into a break AND be accurate. Meaning, good hit on 1 ball and proper hit on CB for CB control.

The modern power break goes contrary to what you are taught to do for a regular shot. We absolutely try to minimize all body movement when shooting, but in breaks - body movement is desired. That's why the break shot is the toughest. Stroking that cue straight and getting a precise hit on the cueball is tough when there's that much body movement going on. Not to mention, so many large muscles all firing off at high speed.


A lot of people push the power-break at all costs view point. I disagree. I say work your way up in a controlled manner. Control is huge. Proof that it is more important than all out power is the existence of soft and medium breaks. Meaning that there's a lot more to making balls than just all out power.


The guys that string racks all have one thing in common - and it's not complete and total super-power breaking. It's the ability to make a ball very often (and that is due to a variety of factors, knowledge and technique) and controlling the rock.


Therefore, there are two goals to a break:

1. Make a ball
2. Control CB


And #2 is almost nearly as important as #1. We have to give the edge in importance to making a ball because without that, you're back in the chair. That said, it's preferable to stay at the table even without a good shot or no shot at all. When at the table, you can always make something happen. Nothing happens in the chair.

But a lot of people make a big mistake getting fixated on what I just said. In reality and practicality, CB control is nearly it's equal because at the higher level, not controlling the CB catches up with you. In other words, it shuts down run outs and when you aren't generating a high enough percentage of run outs from your break - you will not be able to compete. In effect, it makes making a ball on the break nearly moot. That is what separates top pros from semi-pros. Tops pros get out more and that all begins with the break. They have that centrally located cueball that instantly leads to a higher percentage of good opening shot. That means getting and staying in line. That means less push out and safety battles. That means more winning.

Power/speed is merely a component of the greater goal of making a ball. There's more to it. If a pro is smashing the rack at 25.5 and not getting results, sometimes they turn it down to the 20-21mph range and start making a ball. There's rack analysis. CB position and a lot, lot more.


Therefore, making a ball is a goal - speed/power is a tool or device that can be used to achieve that goal. The goal is higher than the tool.


Shouldn't make a tool/device in your game the goal. That's what a lot of players fall into. The quest for generating speed at the cost of other considerations such as control.

Glad you get the idea.. I can whale on it hard if I want to but that defeats the whole purpose of the cut break. I'm trying to control the cue ball and get the proper scatter.. not show off my breaking speed. I'm using damn near zero of my body on these breaks.

Second vid finally is processed and up.
 
paksat...Your bridge is too long. Even holding your cue way at the end, your forearm is still way past perpendicular when you strike the CB. Like Robin said, a closed bridge is better for a power stroke like this. I don't agree with the others that you need to put body weight into the break to make it effective. The weight of the cue and perfect timing is plenty of inertia to generate all the energy necessary to break the rack wide open, control the CB, and hopefully pocket a ball or more.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

You are athletic and have good timing.Traits that are hard to teach.Bend your bridge arm slightly.Shorten bridge length and corresponding grip location.I like the distance between your feet,but try pointing lead foot position down the line of the cue rather than at 45 degrees.The tension on your hamstring will pull you athletically accelerating through the shot.Weight distribution 55-45 forward.Don't slap.Power and accelerate down and through.A closed bridge is a must,more control.Practice from the side rails first then move out to the bed.You need to break well from many different areas and to change speeds.Learn the paths of balls out of the rack and adjust.You've got some tools as far as I can see.

I'll do another vid hopefully in the morning and try these change-ups.
 
It's a 9 ball break, why do I want maximum power for? I hit them harder then I needed to as it was.. sorry but those days of slamming the hell out of them are gone and out of date ( ask earl what he thinks of corey deuel )

This is true. There's no need to destroy a 9 ball rack, the break is all in the tightness of the rack and control of the cueball. Your break is fine as is, imo.

Robroy, as a former #1 ranked champion player has a great power 9 ball break. But that is only really useful in 9 ball with bad racks. In the past the corner ball flying in was looked at as an anomoly with the rack, and players would try to "fix" the rack to avoid that "problem", so you had to crush the bad racks to make balls.

At the first pro tournament using tapped tables everyone complained about the corner balls flying in, and even the very best players in the world seemed dumbfounded to realize that it was a good rack that caused it and not a bad rack as everyone (excepting Corey I imagine) had previously believed.

With bad racks, you need a power 9 ball break, with good racks you don't.
 
paksat...Your bridge is too long. Even holding your cue way at the end, your forearm is still way past perpendicular when you strike the CB. Like Robin said, a closed bridge is better for a power stroke like this. I don't agree with the others that you need to put body weight into the break to make it effective. The weight of the cue and perfect timing is plenty of inertia to generate all the energy necessary to break the rack wide open, control the CB, and hopefully pocket a ball or more.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you look at this guys arm when he's at the "strike position" in the first few seconds of the vid, it's also way past the perpendicular position http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

Or are you speaking of something different?
 
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I incorporated though not successfully yet Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryants breaking for more power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkByJCwTqSo&feature=fvw

What I see from your break is a lot of control...all arm. Not that its bad. My break is in a lot of ways similar to yours.

You know this is a good thread ( and it seems to be turning that way anyway ) to debate if him striking the balls like that is all that reasonable.

If you look in his vid at the 4:01 mark that cueball was heading torward the scratch. I think he may have picked it up because of the oncoming balls that were going to kick it in.

Power or control? We should have a thread on it.
 
Maybe this is a stupid question but... Does the arm/elbow need to be at 90 degrees when Q to QB contact is made when breaking? I try to do this when shooting, but never paid attention while breaking. Be it good or bad I do not know, but you are past 90 degrees even in your warm up stroke. Still looks like a nice controlled break to me though.
 
You know this is a good thread ( and it seems to be turning that way anyway ) to debate if him striking the balls like that is all that reasonable.

If you look in his vid at the 4:01 mark that cueball was heading torward the scratch. I think he may have picked it up because of the oncoming balls that were going to kick it in.

Power or control? We should have a thread on it.

Well back in my day...both.
You wanted Control and as much Power as you could without compromising the control.
That is why I shortened everything, I got power and control.
Worked for me back then.
 
Maybe this is a stupid question but... Does the arm/elbow need to be at 90 degrees when Q to QB contact is made when breaking? I try to do this when shooting, but never paid attention while breaking. Be it good or bad I do not know, but you are past 90 degrees even in your warm up stroke. Still looks like a nice controlled break to me though.

That seems to be the accepted method but i've always found that to feel very unorthodox as the wrist/forearm go back "behind" the body when you stroke through it.
 
So do you shoot the same way?

I can get lower and keep my shooting arm in tight with the way I stroke which is with the stick more in front and to the side then what's preached.

But that's just what's comfortable with me and the way my body is aligned for it. You might be a different size etc. if that's what you're asking.
 
paksat...I'm talking about what helps MOST players strike the CB more accurately. You're not Shane, nor do you play anywhere close to his skill level. If you did, I wouldn't say anything about what you're doing (this is also ONE video of Shane...I've seen many more breaks of his, where his stroking arm was much closer to perpendicular at contact with the CB). The top pros all do some eccentric things that go against conventional processes...but that's the top pros (who have superb timing, and YEARS of practice and application). What we teach allows the majority of the rest of us to teach ourselves to play better (better quality stroke, better accuracy, better consistency), without the years long process that 'trial and error' take. You asked for advice on your video...I gave it to you. Whether you choose to accept it (or not) is your privilege.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you look at this guys arm when he's at the "strike position" in the first few seconds of the vid, it's also way past the perpendicular position http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI

Or are you speaking of something different?
 
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