Practicing stroke without pool table?

D

Darkridder

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello everyone!

My first time posting here and this might be a terrible question but I'll ask it, i currently don't have my own pool table and would like to work on my stroke, could this be practiced using say my kitchen table? Is there anything i can do?

If this is just a terrible idea... Flame away.

Thanks.
 
Darkridder said:
Hello everyone!

My first time posting here and this might be a terrible question but I'll ask it, i currently don't have my own pool table and would like to work on my stroke, could this be practiced using say my kitchen table? Is there anything i can do?

If this is just a terrible idea... Flame away.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Put a Coke bottle down and try stroking into it with out moving bottle. Or use the straight edge of the table and stroke along side of it keeping stick or broom parallel. Make sure to use the proper head and body positions for each attempt. My favorite is using a dresser mirror or medicine cabinet mirror left edge for righties and aligning my right eye, left and right hand with cue under right eye and on same edge as mirror. This teaches hand & eye coordination. Then stroke cue after set up slowly.
 
The bottle trick isn't great if you have a pendulum style stroke as that necessitates the cue not traveling in a perfectly straight line - the hand rises both during the back swing and the follow through causing the tip to dip relative to a straight line path.

The pendulum stroke is the most consistent and simple stroking style so it's a good one to learn. You could set up two side barriers, using some hardcover books or something and working on a straight stroke that way without having to unduly manipulate the cue into an unnatural straight line path (with regards to the vertical axis) as necessitated by the bottle trick.
 
slide13 said:
The bottle trick isn't great if you have a pendulum style stroke as that necessitates the cue not traveling in a perfectly straight line - the hand rises both during the back swing and the follow through causing the tip to dip relative to a straight line path.

The pendulum stroke is the most consistent and simple stroking style so it's a good one to learn. You could set up two side barriers, using some hardcover books or something and working on a straight stroke that way without having to unduly manipulate the cue into an unnatural straight line path (with regards to the vertical axis) as necessitated by the bottle trick.
Click to expand...


Two golf tees work great
 
When I was practicing my stroke, I bought one of these. You can set it on an ironing board, or mount it to a video camera tripod. FWIW, find a good instructor to identify and focus on which flaws to fix, that will improve your game.

Here is a review.
http://billiards.about.com/od/accessories/gr/StrokeTrainer.htm
 

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slide13 said:
The pendulum stroke is the most consistent and simple stroking style so it's a good one to learn.
Click to expand...
That might be true if we could ignore variable bridge lengths and that many shots require the power provided by movement of the upper arm.
 
itsfroze said:
Edit to add:
Which do you think is better, a straight line path, or a stroke that moves up and down on the vertical axis ???
Which do you think should be your goal ?


You're right I must have lost my head, I'm sure you know much more than Mike Zuglan and can out play him easily I assume.
When I run into him again I'll let him know how much better he could have been, if only you were around when he was learning.
Thanks so much for enlightening me, carry on ! :D

PS. Perhaps if you let the cue pivot on your index and middle fingers, by opening and closing your back hand as you stroke
instead of employing a firm grip, your tip wouldn't dip relative to a straight line path, just a thought. There I go again, losing my head again.
Click to expand...


Wow, defensive much? You don't have to agree with me, it's cool. I think what I said holds true. Even with a loose grip the hand still rises in the backswing and follow through, that is how a pendulum works. Just providing another point of view, but you go on taking it as a personal affront to you - because that's fun. Haha.
 
Colin Colenso said:
That might be true if we could ignore variable bridge lengths and that many shots require the power provided by movement of the upper arm.
Click to expand...

What do you think that bridge length has to do with a pendulum stroke? And, what shots do think can't be done with a pendulum stroke power-wise outside of the break?
 
itsfroze said:
No personal affront, just started with a couple of questions (in the red) which I see you choose not to respond to. No big deal.
Click to expand...

The goal is to hit the cb where you want to hit it. The pendulum stroke just happens to do that easier than the piston stroke. In a pendulum stroke, the cue is level a little before and after contact.

Which you choose to use is your personal preference. But, as was stated, the coke bottle is not very good for a pendulum stroke. And, if you are using it at all on the kitchen table, better to use a plastic bottle because you will be knocking it off the table a lot at first.
 
itsfroze said:
Edit to add:
Which do you think is better, a straight line path, or a stroke that moves up and down on the vertical axis ???
Which do you think should be your goal ?
Click to expand...

Okay, fine, I'll answer you're questions.

I think the goal should be a stroke that is the most consistent and most easily repeatable. A pendulum stroke requires one single pivot point (elbow) and one single muscle movement (contraction of bicep in the forward motion).

To get a straight line stroke involves the activation and manipulatin of the shoulder along wth the elbow joint. These two motions have to be done in perfect synch with each other to perform a perfectly straight cuing action. We now have multiple muscles involved and two joints, one of which allows movement in multiple directions (whereas the the elbow joint is really a single plane type joint movement).

I'm not saying a straight line cuing motion is bad, it's just harder to perform consistently and provides no advantage in normal cuing situations.

When throwing a ball, swinging a bat, or performing a golf shot we don't try to perform a straight line motion. We rely on the consistency of a circular style motion that naturally delivers a consistent result. This is what the pendulum swing is. What the tip does before and after contact is of little importance as long as we're able to consistently deliver the tip to a desired spot at the point of impact. I think the simplicity of the pendulum stroke is the best solution to deliver the tip to the desired point in a consistent manner.

Again, not saying it's the absolute only answer or that there is never a call for a different type of motion. Just providing another point of view that I believe has merit and a solid fundamental grounding.
 
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I'm with Slide13 on this one

slide13 said:
Okay, fine, I'll answer you're questions.

I think the goal should be a stroke that is the most consistent and most easily repeatable. A pendulum stroke requires one single pivot point (elbow) and one single muscle movement (contraction of bicep in the forward motion).

To get a straight line stroke involves the activation and manipulatin of the shoulder along wth the elbow joint. These two motions have to be done in perfect synch with each other to perform a perfectly straight cuing action. We now have multiple muscles involved and two joints, one of which allows movement in multiple directions (whereas the the elbow joint is really a single plane type joint movement).

I'm not saying a straight line cuing motion it bad, it's just harder to perform consistently and provides no advantage in normal cuing situations.

When throwing a ball, swinging a bat, or performing a golf shot we don't try to perform a straight line motion. We rely on the consistency of a circular style motion that naturally delivers a consistent result. This is what the pendulum swing is. What the tip does before and after contact is of little importance as long as we're able to consistently deliver the tip to a desired spot at the point of impact. I think the simplicity of the pendulum stroke is the best solution to deliver the tip to the desired point in a consistent manner.

Again, not saying it's the absolute only answer or that there is never a call for a different type of motion. Just providing another point of view that I believe has merit and a solid fundamental grounding.
Click to expand...


Slide13, some people don't want to learn unless they already know the answer. I agree with you 100% and I'm pretty sure we both know why. Look forward to shooting some after a little more practice, lol. Tom
 
Anyone else want to comment, it would be appreciated. What is the best way to practice your stroke without a table? Your advice is appreciated. THx, Tom
 
Neil said:
What do you think that bridge length has to do with a pendulum stroke? And, what shots do think can't be done with a pendulum stroke power-wise outside of the break?
Click to expand...
Changing the bridge length changes the tip height at contact with CB for an arcing hand movement. You might accommodate for this by changing bridge height or changing initial shoulder height, but it is still a variable.

If I'm not playing on a slick table, having the added power of using the upper arm comes into play often. It may be that I do enjoy my power shots more than most.

Good luck playing all of these shots with a pendulum stroke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keznf66dSHE

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
Changing the bridge length changes the tip height at contact with CB for an arcing hand movement.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You can move your bridge hand without shifting your entire body. As long as the rest of your body stays in the same position it will make no difference.

As for the power aspect, you'd be surprised how much power you can generate with just a proper pendulum stroke...I was working on it the other day breaking that way and it's more than most people think, certainly enough for most all informal shots you're going to need to play.
 
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Colin Colenso said:
Changing the bridge length changes the tip height at contact with CB for an arcing hand movement. You might accommodate for this by changing bridge height or changing initial shoulder height, but it is still a variable.

If I'm not playing on a slick table, having the added power of using the upper arm comes into play often. It may be that I do enjoy my power shots more than most.

Good luck playing all of these shots with a pendulum stroke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keznf66dSHE

Colin
Click to expand...

Colin, bridge length has nothing to do with it. If your forearm is perpendicular and your tip is near the cb at address, that is where it will return to at contact. As far as stroke shots, I guess you have never watched Judd Trump play.
 
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