Practicing with tight pockets - I say it helps!

[preacherman]

I want to bring this up. I've seen it under other posts but thought it needed it's own title.

I have pockets that are approx. 4 1/8 and I personally think it helps my game.

My previous table, had pockets that were 4 1/2 (atleast) and I always felt they were too big. I like the tighter pockets, but don't think I would want them any tighter than they are right now. But I feel like when I go out and play on tables with the bigger pockets that they see huge to me in comparison to my table and find it easier to make shots.

Obviously, there are other factors too to help your game, but to me practicing on tight pockets is one plus in improving my game.

Jim "preacherman"

 

[sjm]

I want to bring this up. I've seen it under other posts but thought it needed it's own title.

I have pockets that are approx. 4 1/8 and I personally think it helps my game.

My previous table, had pockets that were 4 1/2 (atleast) and I always felt they were too big. I like the tighter pockets, but don't think I would want them any tighter than they are right now. But I feel like when I go out and play on tables with the bigger pockets that they see huge to me in comparison to my table and find it easier to make shots.

Obviously, there are other factors too to help your game, but to me practicing on tight pockets is one plus in improving my game.

Jim "preacherman"

Preacherman, I'm not sure there's anyone on the forum that disagrees with you. Tight pocket practice helps your game by making you a better pocketer and by forcing you to a higher level of concentration.

The question is whether one pays a price for playing exclusively on equipment that is significantly tighter than tables on which one would normally compete.

I believe that when you are practicing alone, the price paid is negligible. For example, adding speed to a relatively straight shot up the rail to stun the cue ball back out may be less advisable on 4 1/8 pockets than on 4 1/2, but really, it doesn't make too much difference, does it?

It is when you play against an opponent that I think the price paid is a little greater. Tighter equipment calls for a little more safety play on average. I'd also suggest that slightly different push tactics are called for on the tighter equipment. Perhaps some seasoned veteran players can automatically make the minor tactical changes, but I suspect there is at least the danger that your view of the percentages can be slightly obscured if you always practice on equipment that is either far tighter or far looser than the equipment on which you expect to compete.

All these points aside, though, your assertion is correct. It can and will do wonders for you game to practice on tight equipment.

 

[DoomCue]

Tight pockets definitely help to hone pocketing ability. The downside of tight pockets is that it forces you to play a different game. While it may make someone a technically more proficient player, the finer points of the game are lost on tight pockets, like cheating the pocket, firing in at lightning speed, etc. I owned a Diamond Pro, and playing on that table increased my pocketing skill, but when I went to play in my home room (GC IVs), everything was totally different. That being said, I think someone moving from tight pockets to buckets has a huge advantage over someone moving from buckets to tight pockets....

-djb

 

[preacherman]

Tight pockets definitely help to hone pocketing ability. The downside of tight pockets is that it forces you to play a different game. While it may make someone a technically more proficient player, the finer points of the game are lost on tight pockets, like cheating the pocket, firing in at lightning speed, etc. I owned a Diamond Pro, and playing on that table increased my pocketing skill, but when I went to play in my home room (GC IVs), everything was totally different. That being said, I think someone moving from tight pockets to buckets has a huge advantage over someone moving from buckets to tight pockets....

-djb

djb,
Thanks for the feedback. I do miss cheating the pocket - And I was so good at it - lol!

Jim "preacherman"

 

[catscradle]

Practicing with tight pockets ... pocket reducers

I agree to the point that years ago I bought a set of those green rubber pocket reducers which turned out to be completely useless. However recently somebody posted on RSB ( RSB posting )about a method he used to redesign them making them useful as shown here Redesigned Pocket Reducers.
Last weekend I found the 4" sewer coupling referred to in the original post in Home Depot (local hardware store didn't have it, RATS). One of them was enough to do all 6 pocket reducers and the only tools I needed were an exacto knife, a ruler, and a drill with a small bit.
Using the reduced pockets helps I believe, time will tell. If you have got an old set of those useless pocket reducers sitting around gathering dust, consider making the transformation. I managed it and I'm not at all handy.

 

[Bluewolf]

I agree to the point that years ago I bought a set of those green rubber pocket reducers which turned out to be completely useless. However recently somebody posted on RSB ( RSB posting )about a method he used to redesign them making them useful as shown here Redesigned Pocket Reducers.

My husband and I have been discussing tight pockets, and their virtues for quite a time. We currently, in league, are playing on tighter pockets than the ones in our previous league. So for playing in that league, tight pocket practice is advantageous. However, my previous table had tight pockets but was an 8 foot, so the 9 ft tight pockets create addition permutations.

Also, there are some things done on regulation pockets that cannot be done on tight ones, as previously stated, and I do not mean just cheating the pocket, either. There are a few other types of hits, more advanced, that I have seen very good players excel at, which I do practice, and attempt to do, but obviously not at the same level of proficiency. Some types of kick/pots which are doable on regulation pockets become nearly impossible, as well as sending your ball into a pocket around your opponents ball which is at the same pocket, since the larger pockets enable two balls to horizontally fit the width of the pocket. To do this on a tight table, may in fact, require the skill of the player to be such that they can cut the opponents ball away from the pocket, while caroming their ball off of the opponents ball into the pocket.

At this point in my game, I have found this difficult, since the player would have, I am assuming to have to have the skill to strike with perfect spin and perfect ball speed, so that the opponents ball does not travel too far from the pocket or in a direction that does not make the carom possible. So, IMO, some caroms in an inexperienced player are doable on a reg pocket which are not on a tight one, with only very experienced players being able to do this, who have greater proficiency in all needed aspects.

So, IMO, if I am playing on tight pockets all of the time, then go to a tournament with larger ones, I would be rusty on a few types of pots, that would be very doable on that tournament pocket.

And think about those tight side pockets, the many different types of things one can do into the regulation ones, resulting in putting the cb on different places on the table, which cannot be done with the tighter ones, unless at least, theoretically, the player is advanced enough to go multiple rails for the same approximate position that could be achieved on the regulation one, going only 1-2 rails or such an experienced player could achieve this position with highly advanced ball speed control in conjunction with highly advanced knowlege of various spins and combinations of spins. ie side with top or bottom. I think that if a player can achieve position into a regular side pocket with cheating the pocket, perhaps with a little side or bottom, to do this then off of a tight center pocket would require advanced knowlege of these things and the ability to adapt as a result of their knowledge and much higher ability to execute that knowledge. IMO-these skills would be in the a-b range of ability.

I think that it is better to practice on the same size pockets one will be competing on. Now there is another way to increase potting, even with a looser pocket, if you want to do a drill in which case, a dead center hit is a pot, an off center pot is a miss.

JMO.

Laura

 

[chefjeff]

I agree to the point that years ago I bought a set of those green rubber pocket reducers which turned out to be completely useless. However recently somebody posted on RSB ( RSB posting )about a method he used to redesign them making them useful as shown here Redesigned Pocket Reducers.
Last weekend I found the 4" sewer coupling referred to in the original post in Home Depot (local hardware store didn't have it, RATS). One of them was enough to do all 6 pocket reducers and the only tools I needed were an exacto knife, a ruler, and a drill with a small bit.
Using the reduced pockets helps I believe, time will tell. If you have got an old set of those useless pocket reducers sitting around gathering dust, consider making the transformation. I managed it and I'm not at all handy.

Those reducers looks like they'd get in the way too often for my tastes. Plus they're ugly.

My Olhausen has HUGE sides (One whole inch bigger than the Valley bar boxes on which I play---geez! where's the standards?---but I digress).

Anyway, I made reducers for less than a buck. Here's what I did:

I bought a small box of those colorful pencil erasers that fit over the end of a pencil.....like the ones we used in school after the pencil's erasure was worn out (no jokes, please). Using a box cutter, I cut off the tubular part that is supposed to fit over the pencil and used just the pointy part as my reducer.

To attach them to the side pocket, I used two straight pins for each eraser. I adjusted them so that the fat part of the erasers faced the table. I also put them at the height of a ball's equator. These, together, reduced the side pocket dimensions by one inch, just what I wanted.

I chose a color that complemented my cloth.

Ive discovered that they really make me focus more on the side shots, something that was hurting my bar box game. They've also made me chose the corner more often, which has added another advantage to my shot.

Try 'em...if you don't like 'em, they come off in seconds, with zero damage to the table.

Jeff Livingston

 

[catscradle]

Those reducers looks like they'd get in the way too often for my tastes. Plus they're ugly.

Ugly doesn't bother me (take my wife, please! hee, hee), but occassionally the spring portion does get in the way.

My Olhausen has HUGE sides (One whole inch bigger than the Valley bar boxes on which I play---geez! where's the standards?---but I digress).

Anyway, I made reducers for less than a buck. Here's what I did:

I bought a small box of those colorful pencil erasers that fit over the end of a pencil.....like the ones we used in school after the pencil's erasure was worn out (no jokes, please). Using a box cutter, I cut off the tubular part that is supposed to fit over the pencil and used just the pointy part as my reducer.

To attach them to the side pocket, I used two straight pins for each eraser.

I don't think I could do that. My pockets are already shimmed by the installer and I don't think I could push a pin through the shim.

...
Try 'em...if you don't like 'em, they come off in seconds, with zero damage to the table.

Jeff Livingston

I'll try them, it's a pretty cheap experiment, but you still won't get a natural play off the sides of the rail at the pocket opening which was my biggest objection to the green things in the first place.

 

[bill190]

At first when I started using my pocket reducers, my confidence went out the window. It was sort of like stepping back to when I first started playing pool seriously and being at that beginners level again.

But now I'm starting to make my shots again and my confidence is slowly returning.

One thing which has happened is that I am paying a lot of attention to my stroke and aiming. Much more than ever before. The methods I used before just do not work with tight pockets. For example, this shot...

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg

...is quite difficult with regular size pockets, but with the pocket reducers when aiming, just a fraction of a tips width difference will pocket the ball or be a miss. This is a regular shot in my practice routine and I've had a lot of trouble with it since adding the reducers.

I placed reinforcement stickers where the balls go and shot in about 50 balls. This has helped quite a bit with my making of this shot and has "entrenched" it into my memory, but if it was a little different in angle (one which I had not practiced beforehand), I don't know how I would go about aiming and making a similar shot with the precision required?

I'll say one thing though, I went and played on a bar box the other night with regular sized pockets. I could not miss! It was if I was in deadstroke the way I was playing, but I was *not* in dead stroke...

 

[JoeyInCali]

Tight pockets will teach you to be more conservative with english and speed.
You gotta bear down and lock that elbow in-line and have a loose grip.

 

[catscradle]

I placed my pocket tighteners in upside down with great success. They don't get in the way now, only when you are getting the balls back out of the pockets LOL.

You know I can't envision that at all, but when I go home tonight I'll see if I can see what you mean.

 

[BAZARUS]

I want to bring this up. I've seen it under other posts but thought it needed it's own title.

I have pockets that are approx. 4 1/8 and I personally think it helps my game.

My previous table, had pockets that were 4 1/2 (atleast) and I always felt they were too big. I like the tighter pockets, but don't think I would want them any tighter than they are right now. But I feel like when I go out and play on tables with the bigger pockets that they see huge to me in comparison to my table and find it easier to make shots.

Obviously, there are other factors too to help your game, but to me practicing on tight pockets is one plus in improving my game.

Jim "preacherman"

Tight pockets do make a difference. I used to play snooker for sometime on 12 foot table where the pockets was big enough to fit a single ball. Try to cheat the pocket on this one Still if you watch pro snooker players you will see that they can do almost anything on those tables.
Most 9 foot tables will fit 2 balls in their pockets. Right now I own Diamond Pro 9" with pro cut pockets. Front of a corner pocket is 4 1/2" and back of it is 4". First time when I played on this table I was so frustrated and confused, I wasn't sure what happened. I thought I was in a slam or something. I started to think that I don't know how to play anymore. After sometime when I got used to it I've notice that my game was much better. Right now when I play on loose pockets my game jumps couple levels up.

 

[Kerry Impson]

Good point, BAZARUS, as evidenced by the former snooker players who are dominating the WPBA right now. One might not be able to do as much cheating of the pocket and such on a tight table, but I think it's pretty easy to adjust when later playing competitively on a looser table (and I do agree that to round out one's game it is worthwhile to practice occasionally on looser equipment). I also agree with WW in another thread about having faster cloth on one's primary practice table - it is much easier to go from fast cloth to slower cloth. Plus (in my case for instance), as my table is in the basement, it plays fairly slow even with Simonis 860, so we will most likely recover it with 760 in the near future.

 

[lunchmoney]

I replaced the 100 year old cushions on my Brunswick-Balke-Collender with Accu-fast cushions and asked the table mechanic to tighten up the pockets which were over 5". He did a great job. They are less than 4" now. It has helped my game quite a bit. I do have to concentrate more to make balls and I try to play the game the same way I would if the pockets were "normal size". I only use the table for practice and also still spend plenty of time at the pool hall. Granted, there are shots that I just can't do on the tighter pockets; sharp angle side pocket shots, cheating the pocket, hard stun shots down the rail etc. but I have also noticed that I am paying a lot more attention to getting the correct angles so I don't have to cheat the pocket as much. By playing the game as if the pockets were normal size, not only has my shotmaking ability increased but so has my position play. It can be frustrating at times but it is all worth it when I started beating people that I was losing to before. Just my .02 worth, I say if you have the opportunity to play on tight pockets, go for it.

Lunchmoney

 

[catscradle]

I placed my pocket tighteners in upside down with great success. They don't get in the way now, only when you are getting the balls back out of the pockets LOL.

I'll be darned, I came home tonight and tried putting them in upside down and they worked great. I still don't like the effect of the original green triangles and will go with the redesigned ones described above, but your suggestion eliminated the springs in the way problem.
Thanks.

 

[Bluewolf]

I placed my pocket tighteners in upside down with great success. They don't get in the way now, only when you are getting the balls back out of the pockets LOL.

Well I play on the same table, and those reducers still suck!!!! IF YOU are trying to get dead in the center ok, but what if you want to do a special shot it is very difficult.

I still do not see a way to do things like caroms and certain kick pots, etc. perhaps an advanced player can do those, but some of the shots makeable by a c in a regulation pocket would take an a to do it in the tight pocket. JMO

Laura

 

[preacherman]

Good point, BAZARUS, as evidenced by the former snooker players who are dominating the WPBA right now. One might not be able to do as much cheating of the pocket and such on a tight table, but I think it's pretty easy to adjust when later playing competitively on a looser table (and I do agree that to round out one's game it is worthwhile to practice occasionally on looser equipment). I also agree with WW in another thread about having faster cloth on one's primary practice table - it is much easier to go from fast cloth to slower cloth. Plus (in my case for instance), as my table is in the basement, it plays fairly slow even with Simonis 860, so we will most likely recover it with 760 in the near future.

Good thought on the switch from 860 to 760 cloth. I had always thought use 860 as that is what you will always play on, but my table too is in the basement (though finished), I run a dehumdifier in the room year round. It pulls about 1 1/2 - 2 gallons a day in the summer - that's a lot of water - IMO! I the winter it is dryer, so it pulls maybe a gallon a week.

Jim "preacherman"

 

[preacherman]

Well I play on the same table, and those reducers still suck!!!! IF YOU are trying to get dead in the center ok, but what if you want to do a special shot it is very difficult.

I still do not see a way to do things like caroms and certain kick pots, etc. perhaps an advanced player can do those, but some of the shots makeable by a c in a regulation pocket would take an a to do it in the tight pocket. JMO

Laura

On my former table, with big pockets, I used the pocket reducers and found them very helpful for straight in percision shooting! Which is when I used them - when I wanted to work on percision center pocket shots, but obviously for other types of practice they need to come off. I love my new table with tight pockets (though I can no longer use the pocket reducers - which is fine with me) as I can now practice pretty much any shot, not just straight in shots.

Jim "preacherman"

 

[catscradle]

Well I play on the same table, and those reducers still suck!!!! IF YOU are trying to get dead in the center ok, but what if you want to do a special shot it is very difficult.

I still do not see a way to do things like caroms and certain kick pots, etc. perhaps an advanced player can do those, but some of the shots makeable by a c in a regulation pocket would take an a to do it in the tight pocket. JMO

Laura

Maybe you should consider a redesigned version as I previously described (see here Redesigned Pocket Reducers ).
They play remarkably true and reduce the pockets about 3/4 inch. Occassionally a missed ball comes out at a funny angle, but I think with further refinement with my exacto knife that can be allievieated too. I also have to make further changes dictated by Whitewolf's suggestion of putting them in the pockets instead of over the pockets.