Pre-Flag Master, Kamui or Blue Diamond, what's best?

Standard Pre-Flag Blurb

SkiCop said:
Pre-Flag and Post-Flag are the same. I can prove it by selling you one of each for $30 per cube. They have been stored in the same room since purchased withing a year of each other. People who think that Pre-Flag is in any way different need their heads examined. I used to, and still do, throw away chalk that has become gummy due to exposure to the elements and builds up on the tip, cueball, and table like Kamui. That crap is junk. Blue Diamond is where it's at.
Click to expand...


I wrote this Standard Pre-Flag Blurb as a brief overview of the entire situation...

There is a noticeable difference between older Master chalk and today's Master Chalk. The people who observed the difference initially, say they noticed it in the mid to late '90's. The flag was added to the label after 9-11, 2001 by Tweeten as a patriotic gesture. So there is not even close to a perfect correlation between the change in the chalk and the time frame the flag was added. And they still make "non-flag" labeled chalk today, I believe for foreign markets. I do think it's an unfortunate misnomer to call it "pre-flag".

A lot of people can tell the difference using this chalk, myself included. It is definitely different. It's grittier, holds on the tip better, less miscues, less cast off, and lasts longer. Tweeten says they made no change to the chalk itself, just the flag added to the label. Hence it became, and still is, a controversial issue. My theory is that something inexplicable changed in their formulation, ingredients or process. Hey, $h1+ happens.

The change in the chalk has no correlation to WHY the flag was added to the label and a very imperfect correlation to WHEN the flag was added. It definitely can be hard to say for sure that you are getting the real deal until you actually use it. If you want to buy "genuine pre-flag", try to ensure it was made before 1995-ish if you can.

For what it's worth, today's Master is perfectly good chalk. It's a matter of perspective. If you use center ball or minimal spin, you probably wouldn't see any difference from chalk to chalk in terms of playability. If you use extreme spin, I think you will miscue less with better chalk.

You can find more info about "Pre-Flag" by searching the AZ forums for "master" "chalk" and "flag". Here's one thread to check out...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=126352
 
I've been using Masters for 20 years and have not felt the need to change to a different chalk. I use ALOT of english/spin and as long as my tip is in good shape and my stroke is in check, I RARELY ever miscue. When I do, I can always attribute it to what I did wrong.
 
To answer the OP's original question, I like pre-flag over Blue diamond. Have yet to try Kamui. If I ever do it would be out of curiosity - no plans to ever use chalk that expensive. Blue Diamond is readily available, but imo too expensive as well. pre-flag is actually cheaper than BD, but getting harder and harder to come by and you can easily not be getting the real deal when you buy it (see my post above). Today's Master is not bad chalk.

Taking all these factors into consideration, my first choice is genuine pre-flag, and my second choice is post-flag Master. I think BD is a little better than today's Master, but I'm also factoring in the cost - to me it's not worth the difference.

Fatz
 
Anybody ever hear of "NTC"? National Tournament Chalk...made in Macon, GA.? I have one piece of it in a box of chalk I bought back in the early 70's. Dunno where it came from. I also have a few pieces of "championship" chalk..in the same box. Says "stays on top longer" on the paper...also from the early 70's. I put a piece of that in my pocket chalker..works pretty good tho I suspect it was made in Taiwan back then..

Anyway, I have pre flag and flag masters..and darned if I can tell any difference. Haven't tried any of the $pendy stuff.
 
Well talking Chalk, or what is BEST is IMHO. Like Saying what is the BEST Chinese Restaurant in Los Angeles.
Many will be mentioned, all will be GREAT.
 
Chalk shmalk.....does it really make that much of a difference? I have seen really bad chalk (and used it because it was there), but most reputable brands are the same to me.

I use whatever is available, I blame miscues and over/under cue spin on my stroke, not my lack of or use of chalk. By habit I chalk once at the start of a rack and once again on the money ball....that's it. (If I happen to miscue I will scuff and rechalk.)

Maybe I need a chalk education.....:cool:
 
Plain Master's is the best. Nearly EVERY pro uses it at EVERY pro event. Every crazy stroke shot, routine shot, runout, etc., has been performed with plain masters, that was provided by the tournament crew.

End of proof.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Plain Master's is the best. Nearly EVERY pro uses it at EVERY pro event. Every crazy stroke shot, routine shot, runout, etc., has been performed with plain masters, that was provided by the tournament crew.

End of proof.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call that "proof." Until Y was invented, everyone used X. You can fill in X and Y from a zillion different areas of sports (and life more generally).
 
I'd really rather not start a new chalk thread.. but has anyone heard anytihng about this new chalk from tweeten?

s5gEp.jpg


It was the first page in the May 2012 issue of Billiards Digest
 
As some people have mentioned, I can find no difference between the pre-flag and the flag Master's chalk. I do see a difference between the green Master's and the blue Master's. The blue Master's leaves marks on my Aramith cue ball where the green doesn't. I've been playing with Master's chalk for years and have a jar full of half used chalk (including a lot of the pre-flag chalk), and have been completely safisfied. But after reading so many threads I decided to buy some Balabuska chalk. I talked to my friend about it and he gave me a cube of Blue Diamond to try. After playing with the Balabuska chalk for a week (I decided that a minimum of a week would be needed to fairly compare chalk) I noted that I seem to get a little better grip with the cue ball with the Balabuska. I seemed to get just a little more draw with the long draw shots compared to the Master's. I don't think I saw much difference with english. I did note that the Balabuska left a lot more chalk on my right hand ring finger that the Master's and a little more blueing on my cue shaft. Both chalks left blue on my ring finger and I do brush it on gently with the cue slightly tilted. Next week I switched over to the Blue Diamond. Physically there was little difference between the Blue Diamond and the Balabushka. Both chalks when rubbed between my fingers left a very fine coating. Again, the Blue Diamond appeared to give me just a little more draw on the long shots. Both Blue Diamond and Balabushka seemed comparable. The major selling point for me was that after an hour long session, with chalking on every shot (my pre-shot routine) my right ring finger was completely clean - not a trace of blue. Wiping my cue shaft with Magic Eraser, after playing with Blue Diamond, showed just a minimum of blue. So for me, the best chalk between the three would be Blue Diamond - gives me a shade of better draw on the long shots and is a lot cleaner than Master's and Balabuska. I'm sorry but I just won't spend $30 for a piece of Kamui. Too expensive and it would screw up my pre-shot routine. Now I have to decide if I should but more Blue Diamond or stay with the Master's. Would anyone like to buy some Balabuska's chalk? I have two unused pieces and one that's slightly used.
 
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