Pre-flag masters - was there really any change?
- Thread starter r9ball
- Start date
Not the first time and probably not the last.
Post
A lot of pool chalk has to do with where and how it's stored and also the climate or season of where its manufactured and held.
I can tell the difference of the sound and feel when applying the chalk to the tip of how dry or wet a room is.
Some guys swear by the color/dye of chalk is best...
Have you tried sky blue masters?
I've removed chit tons of old chalk from coin op tables over the years but never kept any of it, I would give it to the table owner and not think to try it out n play with some for awhile to see how it takes.. I'll collect chalk that drops into bar tables when removing the slate and bag em up for your studies if you'd like. I'd be curious if anyone could taste the difference between the brands and colors..
Rob.M
A lot of pool chalk has to do with where and how it's stored and also the climate or season of where its manufactured and held.
I can tell the difference of the sound and feel when applying the chalk to the tip of how dry or wet a room is.
Some guys swear by the color/dye of chalk is best...
Have you tried sky blue masters?
I've removed chit tons of old chalk from coin op tables over the years but never kept any of it, I would give it to the table owner and not think to try it out n play with some for awhile to see how it takes.. I'll collect chalk that drops into bar tables when removing the slate and bag em up for your studies if you'd like. I'd be curious if anyone could taste the difference between the brands and colors..
Rob.M
I wasn't expecting this quick of responses to my OP. I'm glad to see all the posts and opinions. I also agree with the post about how the chalk was/is stored over the years could have an effect.
Hope to read more replies going either direction.
Thanks to all
Hope to read more replies going either direction.
Thanks to all
There are many good chalks out now. What is best is going to be different to different people. If you miscue a lot like me, its the stroke, not the chalk!!
The formulation of preflag is not different, and the method of production isn't either. As previously pointed out, the climate of various parts of the country and world however do have an effect over time. Common sense stuff.
Mr. Tweeten's ( Skip Nemecek ) family has been intimately involved in the development of chalk and tips for 100 years, working hand in hand with professional players along the way, so you simply will not find anyone with more knowledge and experience in this particular field.
That said, I will offer one little tidbit of info that is relevant to the obnoxious conspiracy rumor. Many many years ago, our illustrious government required certain dyes and colorants to be reformulated to exclude potentially harmful substances. So it may be true that at one time, the actual dye used in some chalk was different than it is today. However, the proportion or ratio of dye has not changed and therefore the chalk's consistency has not changed, regardless of whether or not the dye was changed.
Mr. Tweeten's ( Skip Nemecek ) family has been intimately involved in the development of chalk and tips for 100 years, working hand in hand with professional players along the way, so you simply will not find anyone with more knowledge and experience in this particular field.
That said, I will offer one little tidbit of info that is relevant to the obnoxious conspiracy rumor. Many many years ago, our illustrious government required certain dyes and colorants to be reformulated to exclude potentially harmful substances. So it may be true that at one time, the actual dye used in some chalk was different than it is today. However, the proportion or ratio of dye has not changed and therefore the chalk's consistency has not changed, regardless of whether or not the dye was changed.
My posts address this every time as well.
TookMeASecond.....ThatWasGood
Was it really 2001? I'm not good with dates.
As I said in the other thread, the first box of flagged masters that my local pool room (UIUC Illini union) was terrible. Not just a little different, but almost unusable. After that it was good again. I assume we weren't the only ones who got a bad box. I believe that's the origin of this story.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As I said in the other thread, the first box of flagged masters that my local pool room (UIUC Illini union) was terrible. Not just a little different, but almost unusable. After that it was good again. I assume we weren't the only ones who got a bad box. I believe that's the origin of this story.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is there any truth to the rumor that Blue Diamond is relabeled Master?
Here's the gaff. I'm finally going to let the cat out of the bag.
Tweeten is the only company in the world making chalk. Every piece of chalk you buy is relabeled Master's or Triangle.
If you're paying more than a few bucks a dozen for chalk you're getting ripped off.
Post
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Siver cup is made in GA.
Chalk is made all over the map.
I can make some in my kitchen.
Rob.M
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Siver cup is made in GA.
Chalk is made all over the map.
I can make some in my kitchen.
Rob.M
From your friend and mine.......... Fast Larry.
"CHALK BLUE DIAMOND
We’ve all heard the stories about Blue Diamond Chalk. Some people swear by it, saying it is by far the best pool cue chalk on the market. Other people think it’s just a bunch of marketing hooey and people are paying an insane amount of money for chalk.
Blue master will cost you about 35 cents a cube and they are selling Blue diamond for $4 a cube. So what’s the truth?
The one thing I have learned about pool players is if you are selling something for 25 cents, and you raise the price to 35 cents nobody buys it. But make that same item now $4 and tell everyone it’s much better, and they line up around the block to jump on it.
They tell you that produced with a secret Longoni formula created over 30 years ago and you get it from the Italian Longoni company. The truth is, is comes from Tweeten in Chicago, and it’s sold to Italy from their old American formula created 30 years ago using lead and Mercury.
To uncover some answers, I decided to send an email to the main man over at Tweeten. Considering the fact that Tweeten makes the best chalk in the world, I figured they’d have some insights on the Blue Diamond stuff. Here’s what I asked:
There have been quite a few rumors swirling about Blue Diamond Chalk, including one that has Tweeten as the manufacturer of the chalk. I was wondering if you could dispel some of these rumors:
1. Is Blue Diamond made by Tweeten?
2. If so, does Tweeten use a different chalk blend than what they use in Master Chalk?
I did get some information, but it looks like the mysteries around Blue Diamond will continue. Here’s the response from Skip Nemecek, the President of Tweeten Fibre Co.:
“To answer one of your questions, yes we manufacturer Blue Diamond Chalk for the Norditalia company in Italy. Sorry but I cannot answer the second question.”
This is so typical of them, they keep everything secret, don’t want you to know most of their tips are soft and wear out too fast, and you can never get a straight story out of them. They will even tell you their green and blue formula is the same, which is total BS.
Is it really worth 7 bucks for 2 cubes of chalk? Is it just Master Chalk in a fancy label? Ultimately, I guess it doesn’t matter. People love Blue Diamond chalk, Blue Diamond is made by the best pool cue chalk manufacturer in the world, so it’s no surprise that Blue Diamond is widely considered the best chalk on the market. If you feel like the Blue Diamond chalk makes you a better player, it’s worth spending the dough. Master Chalk I think is better than Silver Cup in my completely worthless opinion. As to what’s in it… your guess is as good as mine. But I think my guess is correct and makes sense.
The rumor I’ve heard about Blue Diamond Chalk is that it’s the old formula for Master Chalk which contained mercury and Lead in it and that the US has laws against manufacturing items that contain mercury and there was concerns about your kids or your dogs and cats eating the chalk that falls on the floor and having brain damage. Italy doesn’t care or isn’t as strict.
I don’t know for sure but it makes sense as Old Master Chalk is better than today’s new Master Chalk. Everyone noticed the difference when Master changed the chalk a few years ago. The new chalk was not as good as the old chalk with the Lead and Mercury. The old chalk adhered and stayed on the tip better. The new chalk Master put out has the American flag on it so you can tell it from the old. Look in Johnny Archer’s bag and he has a dozen old pre flag pieces half worn out he is hanging on to and still using. He will tell you flat out if he finds an old preflag piece in a pool hall he will steal it in a heartbeat.
I am a little more fortunate; I had 3 gross of it when the change took place. I am now down to l l/2 gross so I have a lifetime supply for my personal use. So do I need to pay for Blue Diamond, no, I am using the preflag Master and that apparently is what Blue Diamond is. The old Master chalk formula with lead and mercury. So keep it away from the little kids and pets. Don’t let a piece fall on the floor, because dogs love to chew on chalk.
Why would Tweeten make an entirely new formula and batch just for one small company and production run? They would not. And why sell it only to Italy. Answer, because it’s the old lead mercury formula they can’t directly sell anymore in America? So there is the real truth on this subject that they won’t come clean on?
OK, so you don’t have any of the preflag Masters sitting around anymore.
Then do try out the Blue Diamond Chalk and it does stick better. If it’ll save you from a miscue in a critical match then it’s well worth the $7 IMHO for the 2 pieces. For those kinds of prices, you will learn to not leave the chalk on the table after you shoot and keep it in your pocket. I use the Flag in practice and the preflag in competition and in tourneys or in my shows and exhibitions.
And the preflag I guard with my life. I have my initials on each piece, just in case I do leave a piece on a rail and somebody picks it up. Then they can’t say it’s a house piece.
Check out the green piece from my antique collection, 1930's, it was round, what a cool idea, why did they change, I would guess a block would be cheaper to make? Old pre 50's chalk is very expensive to acquire, a lot of people collect it and what little comes up, too many are after it and they drive the price up. Also at the turn of the 20th century most of the chalk was white, and you can buy white from silver cup today, but I could not imagine where you would use it at?
I show up with my chalk in 3 small bags, each has 4 pieces in it sealed. Bag 1 is my flag chalk I practice with. In competition I use a piece out of bag 2, my 1993 preflag blue, and before they come out of my big box and go into the sealed bag and into my case, I put them on a pie pan and bake them at 400 degrees to insure all the moisture is out of them since they have been sitting around in my pool room for the 16 years. When I have a competitor I take 2 brand new pieces out of bag 3, this is my bait. He sees this brand new chalk and jumps on it and begins using it and ignores his pos piece that is half worn out. These I have soaked with water and soon his draw begins to die and his cue ball control goes to she-yit and he has no idea what happened. Simple, I fooked him. That one simple little trick has taken more out than I can shake a stick at. So control your piece of chalk, I could have just spit in it when you went to the can.
"
"CHALK BLUE DIAMOND
We’ve all heard the stories about Blue Diamond Chalk. Some people swear by it, saying it is by far the best pool cue chalk on the market. Other people think it’s just a bunch of marketing hooey and people are paying an insane amount of money for chalk.
Blue master will cost you about 35 cents a cube and they are selling Blue diamond for $4 a cube. So what’s the truth?
The one thing I have learned about pool players is if you are selling something for 25 cents, and you raise the price to 35 cents nobody buys it. But make that same item now $4 and tell everyone it’s much better, and they line up around the block to jump on it.
They tell you that produced with a secret Longoni formula created over 30 years ago and you get it from the Italian Longoni company. The truth is, is comes from Tweeten in Chicago, and it’s sold to Italy from their old American formula created 30 years ago using lead and Mercury.
To uncover some answers, I decided to send an email to the main man over at Tweeten. Considering the fact that Tweeten makes the best chalk in the world, I figured they’d have some insights on the Blue Diamond stuff. Here’s what I asked:
There have been quite a few rumors swirling about Blue Diamond Chalk, including one that has Tweeten as the manufacturer of the chalk. I was wondering if you could dispel some of these rumors:
1. Is Blue Diamond made by Tweeten?
2. If so, does Tweeten use a different chalk blend than what they use in Master Chalk?
I did get some information, but it looks like the mysteries around Blue Diamond will continue. Here’s the response from Skip Nemecek, the President of Tweeten Fibre Co.:
“To answer one of your questions, yes we manufacturer Blue Diamond Chalk for the Norditalia company in Italy. Sorry but I cannot answer the second question.”
This is so typical of them, they keep everything secret, don’t want you to know most of their tips are soft and wear out too fast, and you can never get a straight story out of them. They will even tell you their green and blue formula is the same, which is total BS.
Is it really worth 7 bucks for 2 cubes of chalk? Is it just Master Chalk in a fancy label? Ultimately, I guess it doesn’t matter. People love Blue Diamond chalk, Blue Diamond is made by the best pool cue chalk manufacturer in the world, so it’s no surprise that Blue Diamond is widely considered the best chalk on the market. If you feel like the Blue Diamond chalk makes you a better player, it’s worth spending the dough. Master Chalk I think is better than Silver Cup in my completely worthless opinion. As to what’s in it… your guess is as good as mine. But I think my guess is correct and makes sense.
The rumor I’ve heard about Blue Diamond Chalk is that it’s the old formula for Master Chalk which contained mercury and Lead in it and that the US has laws against manufacturing items that contain mercury and there was concerns about your kids or your dogs and cats eating the chalk that falls on the floor and having brain damage. Italy doesn’t care or isn’t as strict.
I don’t know for sure but it makes sense as Old Master Chalk is better than today’s new Master Chalk. Everyone noticed the difference when Master changed the chalk a few years ago. The new chalk was not as good as the old chalk with the Lead and Mercury. The old chalk adhered and stayed on the tip better. The new chalk Master put out has the American flag on it so you can tell it from the old. Look in Johnny Archer’s bag and he has a dozen old pre flag pieces half worn out he is hanging on to and still using. He will tell you flat out if he finds an old preflag piece in a pool hall he will steal it in a heartbeat.
I am a little more fortunate; I had 3 gross of it when the change took place. I am now down to l l/2 gross so I have a lifetime supply for my personal use. So do I need to pay for Blue Diamond, no, I am using the preflag Master and that apparently is what Blue Diamond is. The old Master chalk formula with lead and mercury. So keep it away from the little kids and pets. Don’t let a piece fall on the floor, because dogs love to chew on chalk.
Why would Tweeten make an entirely new formula and batch just for one small company and production run? They would not. And why sell it only to Italy. Answer, because it’s the old lead mercury formula they can’t directly sell anymore in America? So there is the real truth on this subject that they won’t come clean on?
OK, so you don’t have any of the preflag Masters sitting around anymore.
Then do try out the Blue Diamond Chalk and it does stick better. If it’ll save you from a miscue in a critical match then it’s well worth the $7 IMHO for the 2 pieces. For those kinds of prices, you will learn to not leave the chalk on the table after you shoot and keep it in your pocket. I use the Flag in practice and the preflag in competition and in tourneys or in my shows and exhibitions.
And the preflag I guard with my life. I have my initials on each piece, just in case I do leave a piece on a rail and somebody picks it up. Then they can’t say it’s a house piece.
Check out the green piece from my antique collection, 1930's, it was round, what a cool idea, why did they change, I would guess a block would be cheaper to make? Old pre 50's chalk is very expensive to acquire, a lot of people collect it and what little comes up, too many are after it and they drive the price up. Also at the turn of the 20th century most of the chalk was white, and you can buy white from silver cup today, but I could not imagine where you would use it at?
I show up with my chalk in 3 small bags, each has 4 pieces in it sealed. Bag 1 is my flag chalk I practice with. In competition I use a piece out of bag 2, my 1993 preflag blue, and before they come out of my big box and go into the sealed bag and into my case, I put them on a pie pan and bake them at 400 degrees to insure all the moisture is out of them since they have been sitting around in my pool room for the 16 years. When I have a competitor I take 2 brand new pieces out of bag 3, this is my bait. He sees this brand new chalk and jumps on it and begins using it and ignores his pos piece that is half worn out. These I have soaked with water and soon his draw begins to die and his cue ball control goes to she-yit and he has no idea what happened. Simple, I fooked him. That one simple little trick has taken more out than I can shake a stick at. So control your piece of chalk, I could have just spit in it when you went to the can.
"
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Blue Diamond is made by Tweeten and labeled by Longoni. Looking at it I would say there is some difference in the consistency just as there is between Master's and Triangle. But the two cube box packaging was a great marketing idea. I asked Tweeten why they didn't offer this and was told it cost more than the chalk. They did some for the trade show and I got a couple of those.
Complete hogwash. Why in the world would this trash even be put on here?
Great pun! The story I recalled was a supplier for Tweeten had remove lead or mercury from the dyes.
*tinfoil hats on*
I heard a rumour that Tweeten also supplies Masters without the US Flag for foreign markets.
Now, who removed lead from pencils. No wonder our kids are doing so poorly with their number 2 pencils. There is no lead, just this expensive graphite.
*tinfoil hats on*
I heard a rumour that Tweeten also supplies Masters without the US Flag for foreign markets.
Now, who removed lead from pencils. No wonder our kids are doing so poorly with their number 2 pencils. There is no lead, just this expensive graphite.
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