CubaElFlaco
Registered
Thanks.
I'm sorry gentlemen I'm not familiar with PEP or what SPF school is.
I'm sorry gentlemen I'm not familiar with PEP or what SPF school is.
Pre shot Routine
- Thread starter CubaElFlaco
- Start date
PEP is personal eye pattern
SPF is the foundation of the stroke fundamentals some instructors teach. Set Pause and Finish represent the three stops of a solid stroke.
Steve
CubaElFlaco
Registered
The material that has helped me has been Bert Kinister's tapes.
CubaElFlaco
Registered
The arm weights were experimental until I saw they work well for me. Strickland is my favorite player so I thought I'd try. They're to keep you down on the ball and more balanced. I tended to jump up but now it's almost impossible to jump up. I got a weight on my arm! (and ankle) 
Strickland is well known for introducing all kinds of gimicks into his game. I'm not sure why, as he has more talent than just about anyone, and doesn't need all the junk.
My personal opinion is that the best thing you can do is practice your fundamentals until they are natural. Then you don't need to think about them, and you can focus on your shot.
One weekend with a qualified instructor will do more for your long term improvement than all the arm weights, finger extenders, lazer gadgets, or anything else you can buy.
Steve
CubaElFlaco
Registered
Thanks pooltchr. I've been getting advice from Ernie Pavone. OLD timer (85 years old). Played with Crane, Sigel, Hubbard and won 2 NY State championships in the 1960's.
I had a 2 hour lesson with Danny DiLiberto too. This was a year or so ago. He said something along the lines of: "Don't come back until you perfect your stop shot". I didn't go back at all because my car was not doing so good and I had to drive to Buffalo to see him. I started learning from a guy named Kito here in Rochester after. Great runout player who doesn't compete any more. Has beaten Bassavich and other pros. Taught Shane Winters when he was coming up too.
I plan on going to see Kinister in Chicago soon. I dig his stuff.
I had a 2 hour lesson with Danny DiLiberto too. This was a year or so ago. He said something along the lines of: "Don't come back until you perfect your stop shot". I didn't go back at all because my car was not doing so good and I had to drive to Buffalo to see him. I started learning from a guy named Kito here in Rochester after. Great runout player who doesn't compete any more. Has beaten Bassavich and other pros. Taught Shane Winters when he was coming up too.
I plan on going to see Kinister in Chicago soon. I dig his stuff.
CubaElFlaco
Registered
I did not know that.
CubaElFlaco
Registered
Been away from the forums but not from the pool table. Working on Bert Kinister's video 11 and 12. I'm focusing on my pre shot routine when I play and my stroke with the videos. Anyone familiar with "The Mighty X"? It's very difficult for me.
I can really see how I will develop a smoother stroke if I focus on it for two months. It feels like the slower I hit the ball but with more follow through the straighter it is and the more it draws. A lot of times I stroke too fast through the ball.
I can really see how I will develop a smoother stroke if I focus on it for two months. It feels like the slower I hit the ball but with more follow through the straighter it is and the more it draws. A lot of times I stroke too fast through the ball.
CubaElFlaco...It is an error to confuse followthrough with any effect on the CB. You do not "followthrough" different amounts, based on what you want to have happen with the CB. It doesn't matter how far you followthrough, as long as you complete your swing. We don't teach "hit the ball and followthrough"...we teach you to finish your stroke, and you will get followthrough. We finish our stroke the same way on every SOP shot, which means my tip will finish at the same place too. You need to find a good instructor who can explain this to you.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
CubaElFlaco
Registered
Thanks Scott. There are a couple of pros here in Rochester that I can talk to. I'll ask more of them to watch me. Ron Cosanzio likes to play me with the 5 and out and he gives me advice if I ask him.
Starts with the dominant eye...........
The preshot starts with the dominant eye. If you don't know which eye is dominant you can be looking at the shot as if you are right eye dominant in the preshot when in all reality you need to be looking at it as if you are left eye diminant. Or vise-versa.
Both ways look good on the preshot from up above but when you get down on the shot only one way looks good and that is having your dominant eye in the dominant position.
If you don't have it right in the beginning you are crossing over on the way down changing your stance a little or leaning a little which in not good.
Give me a call sometime and I'll show you how to make sure this is correct. 715-563-8712.
If a person is opposite eye dominant they almost always line up with the wrong eye as dominant naturally in the preshot position.
This is very simple to correct but it is one of the main reasons the shot might not look quite right once you get down there.
Have a great day Geno........
The preshot starts with the dominant eye. If you don't know which eye is dominant you can be looking at the shot as if you are right eye dominant in the preshot when in all reality you need to be looking at it as if you are left eye diminant. Or vise-versa.
Both ways look good on the preshot from up above but when you get down on the shot only one way looks good and that is having your dominant eye in the dominant position.
If you don't have it right in the beginning you are crossing over on the way down changing your stance a little or leaning a little which in not good.
Give me a call sometime and I'll show you how to make sure this is correct. 715-563-8712.
If a person is opposite eye dominant they almost always line up with the wrong eye as dominant naturally in the preshot position.
This is very simple to correct but it is one of the main reasons the shot might not look quite right once you get down there.
Have a great day Geno........
Gene,
I would respectfully have to disagree. If the dom eye is critical, it would only become applicable when the shooter is actually down on the shot. Pre shot routine(s) occur long before one is in the actual shooting position.
There may be a point where this becomes important, but I know many players who play very well and don't even know which eye is dominant.
As long as the head position reletive to the cue stick allows the shooter to see accurately down the cue and extend that line to the target accurately, it's working. And I will agree that the dom eye would play a part in being able to do that.
Steve
I would respectfully have to disagree. If the dom eye is critical, it would only become applicable when the shooter is actually down on the shot. Pre shot routine(s) occur long before one is in the actual shooting position.
There may be a point where this becomes important, but I know many players who play very well and don't even know which eye is dominant.
As long as the head position reletive to the cue stick allows the shooter to see accurately down the cue and extend that line to the target accurately, it's working. And I will agree that the dom eye would play a part in being able to do that.
Steve
CubaElFlaco...Just FYI...most pro players are not instructors, and lots of the ones who think they are cannot communicate effectively the "whys", "wheres" and "whens" about how things actually work on a pool table. Since you are in NY, Tony Robles is an exception to the rule...a great player and instructor too!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
This is not a theory, it actually works.........
Hi there Steve,
I've taught this to many players now and they all see the great advantage having the same exact picture in the preshot that they have on the way down when they get to the the final shooting position.
The response is always the same. Wow this really makes a difference! or the big smile just tells it all right away.
Most players can't wait to get on the table and practice with their new found toy.
If you are left eye dominant and right handed and looking at the shot right eye dominant in the preshot position your body is about 2 to 4 inches to far to the left. At some point on the way down you have to switch to the dominant eye being in the correct position because you can't shoot it with the right eye looking dominant because it will look all cockeyed.
If you are same eye dominant I can see why a person would not think this is important because the dominant eye is on that side of the body already. But it's still important if you are same eye dominant also.
Bottom line is I have showed this to 100's of players already with 100% success. It really does help to keep that good image of the shot.
This is not a theory but has been taught and taught over and over by myself with great success. It does actually work great.
And sure, players can play good without knowing this or even not knowing which eye is the dominant eye, but how good could they have gotten if they knew. I guess we'll never know.
With repetition we naturally get the eyes in the correct position. Some better than others.
Why count on natural when there is a method that helps you get the eyes in the Perfect position and then helps you keep them there so you envision the shot as good as humanly possible.
Knowing this and understanding this would benefit any teacher because it would accelerate the students progress. Aiming is huge and having and keeping the eyes in the correct position is so important.
I've heard good things about yourself Steve as a teacher and I'm willing to share this whole thing with anyone for free.
This is part of Perfect Aim. But just one small part.
And anyone can aim pretty good without knowing this but for myself when I'm shooting for the cash pretty good just doesn't get it most of the time.
715-563-8712 and anyone can call and I'll help them understand how to make this work for them.
It's funny though how something like this has never been taught when it is so important. But then again most people don't understand it until they are kind of led through it step by step. But once they get it, they got it and nobody can tell them it's not important.
Because they can see it for themselves. Seeing is believing!
It's one of the secrets of this game hiding right in plain sight, right in front of our faces.
Have a great day geno...........
Hi there Steve,
I've taught this to many players now and they all see the great advantage having the same exact picture in the preshot that they have on the way down when they get to the the final shooting position.
The response is always the same. Wow this really makes a difference! or the big smile just tells it all right away.
Most players can't wait to get on the table and practice with their new found toy.
If you are left eye dominant and right handed and looking at the shot right eye dominant in the preshot position your body is about 2 to 4 inches to far to the left. At some point on the way down you have to switch to the dominant eye being in the correct position because you can't shoot it with the right eye looking dominant because it will look all cockeyed.
If you are same eye dominant I can see why a person would not think this is important because the dominant eye is on that side of the body already. But it's still important if you are same eye dominant also.
Bottom line is I have showed this to 100's of players already with 100% success. It really does help to keep that good image of the shot.
This is not a theory but has been taught and taught over and over by myself with great success. It does actually work great.
And sure, players can play good without knowing this or even not knowing which eye is the dominant eye, but how good could they have gotten if they knew. I guess we'll never know.
With repetition we naturally get the eyes in the correct position. Some better than others.
Why count on natural when there is a method that helps you get the eyes in the Perfect position and then helps you keep them there so you envision the shot as good as humanly possible.
Knowing this and understanding this would benefit any teacher because it would accelerate the students progress. Aiming is huge and having and keeping the eyes in the correct position is so important.
I've heard good things about yourself Steve as a teacher and I'm willing to share this whole thing with anyone for free.
This is part of Perfect Aim. But just one small part.
And anyone can aim pretty good without knowing this but for myself when I'm shooting for the cash pretty good just doesn't get it most of the time.
715-563-8712 and anyone can call and I'll help them understand how to make this work for them.
It's funny though how something like this has never been taught when it is so important. But then again most people don't understand it until they are kind of led through it step by step. But once they get it, they got it and nobody can tell them it's not important.
Because they can see it for themselves. Seeing is believing!
It's one of the secrets of this game hiding right in plain sight, right in front of our faces.
Have a great day geno...........
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CubaElFlaco
Registered
I may take you up on that call Geno. Right now I may be dealing with too much information. The aiming system I have been using is the full ball, 3/4 ball, 1/2 ball, 1/4 ball etc and it's been working pretty well.
Cuba,
just my 2 cents from my side:
Some very good and well known instructors from the states (if not the world) gave you extremly good answers.
Further also Geno knows, that i really have much respect for him. I saw his *perfect aim vids*, and there are very sure excellent points you can show a student.
But at all in all and for sure: Without really good fundamentals no aiming-system will bring you really to a higher level. I can show you many aiming-systems...but not one is the holy gral if you re not able to execute with a repeatable straight stroke.
Don t get me wrong- i also recommend to have lessons with different good instructors-this all will help you a ton. But the largest amount of *students* shouldn t invest too much time to *detect THE ONE AIMING-SYSTEM*!
You need to invest time to get the fundamentals- and if you re having enough table-time (without table-time NOTHING will work), you can go step by step further. But the key is , to choose the correct sequence in building your own *learning-pyramid*. It s like building a house my friend: With good fundamentals you can make your way to the next level/top. The rest will be knowledge which you will learn time after time.
And the pre-shot-routines, to be back on topic, are one of the most important things you should learn.
lg and keep shooting,
lg from overseas,
ingo
just my 2 cents from my side:
Some very good and well known instructors from the states (if not the world) gave you extremly good answers.
Further also Geno knows, that i really have much respect for him. I saw his *perfect aim vids*, and there are very sure excellent points you can show a student.
But at all in all and for sure: Without really good fundamentals no aiming-system will bring you really to a higher level. I can show you many aiming-systems...but not one is the holy gral if you re not able to execute with a repeatable straight stroke.
Don t get me wrong- i also recommend to have lessons with different good instructors-this all will help you a ton. But the largest amount of *students* shouldn t invest too much time to *detect THE ONE AIMING-SYSTEM*!
You need to invest time to get the fundamentals- and if you re having enough table-time (without table-time NOTHING will work), you can go step by step further. But the key is , to choose the correct sequence in building your own *learning-pyramid*. It s like building a house my friend: With good fundamentals you can make your way to the next level/top. The rest will be knowledge which you will learn time after time.
And the pre-shot-routines, to be back on topic, are one of the most important things you should learn.
lg and keep shooting,
lg from overseas,
ingo
Very rewarding night last night.........
I'd like to share last night with you Steve and others on AZ here because I know how much you and other teachers enjoy helping players improve their games. This is why the good teachers teach, because they love helping people and players enhance the game we all enjoy so much. And from what I read on the forum Steve your willingness to help is very pronounced. I always like what I see and what you have to say.
I had to go to Green Bay,Wisconsin last night to to pick up some addresses for my work. I had a choice to make. Go golfing at one of the great courses in the area or go visit the World Champion Packers stadium and hall of fame. I’ve been working a lot and decided to do something fun for myself. I havn’t even been able to play hardly any pool for about a month. Work, work, and more work.
Then the thought popped into my head to go to the local poolhall and try to teach some young guns how to aim. I called the poolhall,K K Billiards and asked Jim at the counter if he minded if I stop by and taught some players there how to aim. He replied sure, but everyone here is broke right now. He knew about Perfect Aim and I told him I’m not worried about the money but just want to help some young players improve their games.
Jim knew of perfect Aim from AZ ,in fact he is fairly active on the threads. He kind of gave the 4 or 5 players there a heads up on what they were about to see. He did a good job because they were all ready to learn.
I worked with 4 players in about a 4 hour period. I started it out by telling them all that we are all the same contrary to what is the belief among main stream pool. We all have 2 hands, 2 eyes, a nose, ears and we all have a dominant eye especially when we get down close to shoot a shot. You will all agree when I’m done because you will be seeing this with your own eyes. In fact with the 4 of you, you can all share notes and you will see for yourselves that we are all the same when we are finding the perfect position to have the eyes to see the shots correctly.
Jim was left handed and right eye dominant. As usual with just about everyone that is opposite eye dominant he was looking at the shot with his non dominant eye in the dominant position in the preshot starting position. As I keep stating from this position both eyes look OK in the dominant position from here. In fact from this position you would swear that you don’t have a dominant eye. But on the way down to get to the final aiming position your dominant eye will force you to get your real dominant eye in the most correct position.
Now the important thing is that I show everyone how to see this for themselves so they know that this is how it works. I just don’t tell them and try to make them believe it. They can see how it works clearly.
The young man playing on the table next to us was gambling. But he was trying to watch what was going on and came over for a 10 minute demo. He was right eye dominant and right handed. Because the cue and right eye is on the right side of his body he was usually in the dominant position naturally with the right eye. But it was evident later in the lesson that on certain shots that he was having trouble seeing that he was making the non dominant eye work as the dominant eye on particular shots. But for the most part when aiming a straight in shot the player with the same eye dominance usually starts out in the most correct position in the preshot
The next young man was right handed and left eye dominant. He thought he was right eye dominant because he passes all the dominance tests with pointing and circles that says he is right eye dominant. About 50% of all players that are opposite eye dominant flunk the normal eye dominance test and think they are same eye dominant. He could see in a few minutes that he was definitely left eye dominant and espressed his amazement with his friends over his new relevation. He also being opposite eye dominant had the non dominant eye in the dominant position at the start of the preshot routine.
Then there was the last young man. He was right handed but extremely left eye dominant. I thought at first that he might be one of these players that shoots only with one eye. He also was looking at the shot in the beginning of the preshot position with the right eye being dominant. This is really bad for him because the shift on the way down to the shot is a lot bigger because the shot is right under the right eye in the preshot but he would shift about 4 inches to the right to make his left eye get to where it needed to be. To do this he really has to shift his whole body and stroke to see the shot right on the way down . Kind of like coming in from the left side to see the shot. You just don’t have the same picture as you had when you started when you get down to shoot.
From the last 100 or so lessons I have given I have conclusively found that 99% of all opposite eye dominant players are actually looking at the shot in the preshot as if the nondominant eye is dominant. This is a huge find and is just not taught anywhere. At least I havn’t found it. And before someone says it is and has been taught before they really need to understand what I’m talking about and not just assuming.
This bit of info that I share on the forum is the missing link to making Perfect Aim the norm in teaching players how to aim. I call it Perfect Aim and some call it alignment but whatever you want to call it , Perfect Aim gets your eyes in the most perfect position to see the shot correctly and give you the best chance to make the ball.
By sharing this with you and other teachers on here we can all enhance our skills to help players enjoy this game. And I know that once you know this and start teaching this you will be just as baffled as I was that here this has been right in front of our faces for years and nobody has ever figured this all out . Sure they have pointed out the problems and where to have this or that but nobody has ever came up with a pure and simple cure as to why the shot doesn’t quite look right when we get down on some shots.
This is it. Can’t wait for your call to share this with you. Or anyone else that wants to learn especially teachers out there. Not that your lessons right now are not valuable to the pool world because they are, but this will just put another very priceless club in your bag of teaching and I want to share this.
All in all though what a great night. I'm glad I didn't go golfing or go to the stadium. I know these young guns had alot of fun and for me the rewards are endless being able to share something that I know is so important to their games.
Call anytime. If I’m working I will set a time up that will work for all of us.
715-563-8712 Geno…………….
I'd like to share last night with you Steve and others on AZ here because I know how much you and other teachers enjoy helping players improve their games. This is why the good teachers teach, because they love helping people and players enhance the game we all enjoy so much. And from what I read on the forum Steve your willingness to help is very pronounced. I always like what I see and what you have to say.
I had to go to Green Bay,Wisconsin last night to to pick up some addresses for my work. I had a choice to make. Go golfing at one of the great courses in the area or go visit the World Champion Packers stadium and hall of fame. I’ve been working a lot and decided to do something fun for myself. I havn’t even been able to play hardly any pool for about a month. Work, work, and more work.
Then the thought popped into my head to go to the local poolhall and try to teach some young guns how to aim. I called the poolhall,K K Billiards and asked Jim at the counter if he minded if I stop by and taught some players there how to aim. He replied sure, but everyone here is broke right now. He knew about Perfect Aim and I told him I’m not worried about the money but just want to help some young players improve their games.
Jim knew of perfect Aim from AZ ,in fact he is fairly active on the threads. He kind of gave the 4 or 5 players there a heads up on what they were about to see. He did a good job because they were all ready to learn.
I worked with 4 players in about a 4 hour period. I started it out by telling them all that we are all the same contrary to what is the belief among main stream pool. We all have 2 hands, 2 eyes, a nose, ears and we all have a dominant eye especially when we get down close to shoot a shot. You will all agree when I’m done because you will be seeing this with your own eyes. In fact with the 4 of you, you can all share notes and you will see for yourselves that we are all the same when we are finding the perfect position to have the eyes to see the shots correctly.
Jim was left handed and right eye dominant. As usual with just about everyone that is opposite eye dominant he was looking at the shot with his non dominant eye in the dominant position in the preshot starting position. As I keep stating from this position both eyes look OK in the dominant position from here. In fact from this position you would swear that you don’t have a dominant eye. But on the way down to get to the final aiming position your dominant eye will force you to get your real dominant eye in the most correct position.
Now the important thing is that I show everyone how to see this for themselves so they know that this is how it works. I just don’t tell them and try to make them believe it. They can see how it works clearly.
The young man playing on the table next to us was gambling. But he was trying to watch what was going on and came over for a 10 minute demo. He was right eye dominant and right handed. Because the cue and right eye is on the right side of his body he was usually in the dominant position naturally with the right eye. But it was evident later in the lesson that on certain shots that he was having trouble seeing that he was making the non dominant eye work as the dominant eye on particular shots. But for the most part when aiming a straight in shot the player with the same eye dominance usually starts out in the most correct position in the preshot
The next young man was right handed and left eye dominant. He thought he was right eye dominant because he passes all the dominance tests with pointing and circles that says he is right eye dominant. About 50% of all players that are opposite eye dominant flunk the normal eye dominance test and think they are same eye dominant. He could see in a few minutes that he was definitely left eye dominant and espressed his amazement with his friends over his new relevation. He also being opposite eye dominant had the non dominant eye in the dominant position at the start of the preshot routine.
Then there was the last young man. He was right handed but extremely left eye dominant. I thought at first that he might be one of these players that shoots only with one eye. He also was looking at the shot in the beginning of the preshot position with the right eye being dominant. This is really bad for him because the shift on the way down to the shot is a lot bigger because the shot is right under the right eye in the preshot but he would shift about 4 inches to the right to make his left eye get to where it needed to be. To do this he really has to shift his whole body and stroke to see the shot right on the way down . Kind of like coming in from the left side to see the shot. You just don’t have the same picture as you had when you started when you get down to shoot.
From the last 100 or so lessons I have given I have conclusively found that 99% of all opposite eye dominant players are actually looking at the shot in the preshot as if the nondominant eye is dominant. This is a huge find and is just not taught anywhere. At least I havn’t found it. And before someone says it is and has been taught before they really need to understand what I’m talking about and not just assuming.
This bit of info that I share on the forum is the missing link to making Perfect Aim the norm in teaching players how to aim. I call it Perfect Aim and some call it alignment but whatever you want to call it , Perfect Aim gets your eyes in the most perfect position to see the shot correctly and give you the best chance to make the ball.
By sharing this with you and other teachers on here we can all enhance our skills to help players enjoy this game. And I know that once you know this and start teaching this you will be just as baffled as I was that here this has been right in front of our faces for years and nobody has ever figured this all out . Sure they have pointed out the problems and where to have this or that but nobody has ever came up with a pure and simple cure as to why the shot doesn’t quite look right when we get down on some shots.
This is it. Can’t wait for your call to share this with you. Or anyone else that wants to learn especially teachers out there. Not that your lessons right now are not valuable to the pool world because they are, but this will just put another very priceless club in your bag of teaching and I want to share this.
All in all though what a great night. I'm glad I didn't go golfing or go to the stadium. I know these young guns had alot of fun and for me the rewards are endless being able to share something that I know is so important to their games.
Call anytime. If I’m working I will set a time up that will work for all of us.
715-563-8712 Geno…………….
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