Predator shaft comparison. 314 vs Vantage

[9Ballr]

Does anyone know why Predator says the Vantage is more accurate at high speeds than the 314-3?
Sounds a little weird to me but I just wanted to know if there's anything to this claim.
On top of that the 314 seems to be the least accurate at slow speeds as well.

http://www.predatorcues.com/shafts/predator-low-deflection-shaft/

Can someone explain?

Thanks

 

[MitchAlsup]

I has to do with 2 things:

A) carbon fiber can be made very stiff--about 60X stiffer than wood, so you can use less of it and still have a stiffer shaft.

B) marketing: marketing never actually has to tell the full truth about anything.

 

[Straightpool_99]

I has to do with 2 things:

A) carbon fiber can be made very stiff--about 60X stiffer than wood, so you can use less of it and still have a stiffer shaft.

B) marketing: marketing never actually has to tell the full truth about anything.

Option B. Notice how the Revo is better at everything...lol. When buying a cue shaft, you need to try it first. Charts like these are next to useless, especially when made for marketing purposes.

 

[9Ballr]

I wasn't talking about their carbon shaft.
Was only comparing the Vantage to the 314.
There's gotta be another reason, other than marketing, that they say one of
their shaft is more accurate at high speed than another one of their own shafts.

 

[Nuts4Tascarellas]

Vantage

I tried the Vantage 3 shaft. Hated it! Shots were all over the place and I couldn't make sense of it.

 

[vinnyfromparis]

I actually have all of them.
The Vantage is thicker than the 314 3 and not the same taper.
Made the hit more stiff in my opinion and I like it better.
The accuracy come from that.
But like someone said if you can try it first it is better.

 

[Nuts4Tascarellas]

oops

I made a mistake in my statement. I apologize. I tried the 314-3 and it shot strangely. The Vantage I tried was fine.

 

[9Ballr]

I actually have all of them.
The Vantage is thicker than the 314 3 and not the same taper.
Made the hit more stiff in my opinion and I like it better.
The accuracy come from that.
But like someone said if you can try it first it is better.

Thanks Vinny.
Appreciate your input.

 

[JE54]

I've never shot with a vantage or 314-3. I have about 6 314-2, how much
better are the 3's and vantage better then the 2 ?

 

[wreiman]

well I am in the process of evaluating a 314 2 against a Vantage , but I have not finished fitting the Vantage blank to my cue yet. But I'm not sure it close enough for your comparison?

 

[9Ballr]

well I am in the process of evaluating a 314 2 against a Vantage 2, but I have not finished fitting the Vantage blank to my cue yet. But I'm not sure it close enough for your comparison?

I didn't know there was a Vantage 2 out yet.

Yes, that comparison is great.
Please post back when you have established some ideas of the differences.

Thanks

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Does anyone know why Predator says the Vantage is more accurate at high speeds than the 314-3?
Sounds a little weird to me but I just wanted to know if there's anything to this claim.
On top of that the 314 seems to be the least accurate at slow speeds as well.

http://www.predatorcues.com/shafts/predator-low-deflection-shaft/

Can someone explain?

Thanks

9Ballr,

Not sure why you got these not particularly helpful answers so far. (edit...I guess I only read the first couple) Here's the deal. I have a 314-3. I have shot with a Z3 and Vantage. When Predator uses the term "accuracy", what they mean is "low squirt". My experience says that the amount of deflection (squirt) you get with the 314-3 is *slightly* more than with the Z3 or Vantage. At most slower to medium speeds, the Z3 has ridiculously low squirt. The 314-3 is pretty good here but not quite as low as the Z. At higher speeds the 314-3 deflects noticeably more, as does the Z. The Vantage, however, is pretty consistent at all speeds. I will say that the Vantage is pretty impressive in that you can hammer a ball with english and the squirt is still quite low. So if what I said here matches what Predator's marketing says, then YES, there is something to their claim.

NOW, that being said, squirt characteristics are but one factor in selecting the right shaft for you. Feel and taper is pretty important for me. In my opinion, the 314-3 has the nicest hit of the 3. The taper is a really long pro taper, which I like. I am tall and use a long bridge. The Z3 and the Vantage have almost the same taper, except the Z is smaller diameter. Both have a conical taper. I personally don't really like a conical taper. Both have a very gradual taper, so even if you don't like conical, it's not *that* bad. The Vantage definitely feels BIG. Even though it is only a little bigger than the 314-3, it feels bigger because of the taper. The Vantage plays super stiff as a result of the size and taper. All the 3 series are on the stiff side, but the Vantage is the stiffest.

For me, a small diameter shaft is something I moved away from a couple of years ago. If you like small diameter, go with the Z. You could even try the S-Tuned Z3 from Seyberts (which has the taper modified to be a pro taper). This way it is small, but non-conical taper. I've heard the squirt on this is crazy low, but that the shaft feels a bit whippy.

For larger diameter, I don't think you could go very wrong with either the 314-3 or the Vantage. I suppose if you don't mind the conical taper, I'd do the Vantage. For me, the 314-3 is the best because of the taper and the hit.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

 

[Dave-Kat]

Well explained and said KMRUNOUT:thumbup:

-Kat,

9Ballr,

Not sure why you got these not particularly helpful answers so far. (edit...I guess I only read the first couple) Here's the deal. I have a 314-3. I have shot with a Z3 and Vantage. When Predator uses the term "accuracy", what they mean is "low squirt". My experience says that the amount of deflection (squirt) you get with the 314-3 is *slightly* more than with the Z3 or Vantage. At most slower to medium speeds, the Z3 has ridiculously low squirt. The 314-3 is pretty good here but not quite as low as the Z. At higher speeds the 314-3 deflects noticeably more, as does the Z. The Vantage, however, is pretty consistent at all speeds. I will say that the Vantage is pretty impressive in that you can hammer a ball with english and the squirt is still quite low. So if what I said here matches what Predator's marketing says, then YES, there is something to their claim.

NOW, that being said, squirt characteristics are but one factor in selecting the right shaft for you. Feel and taper is pretty important for me. In my opinion, the 314-3 has the nicest hit of the 3. The taper is a really long pro taper, which I like. I am tall and use a long bridge. The Z3 and the Vantage have almost the same taper, except the Z is smaller diameter. Both have a conical taper. I personally don't really like a conical taper. Both have a very gradual taper, so even if you don't like conical, it's not *that* bad. The Vantage definitely feels BIG. Even though it is only a little bigger than the 314-3, it feels bigger because of the taper. The Vantage plays super stiff as a result of the size and taper. All the 3 series are on the stiff side, but the Vantage is the stiffest.

For me, a small diameter shaft is something I moved away from a couple of years ago. If you like small diameter, go with the Z. You could even try the S-Tuned Z3 from Seyberts (which has the taper modified to be a pro taper). This way it is small, but non-conical taper. I've heard the squirt on this is crazy low, but that the shaft feels a bit whippy.

For larger diameter, I don't think you could go very wrong with either the 314-3 or the Vantage. I suppose if you don't mind the conical taper, I'd do the Vantage. For me, the 314-3 is the best because of the taper and the hit.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

 

[Kim Bye]

Does anyone know why Predator says the Vantage is more accurate at high speeds than the 314-3?
Sounds a little weird to me but I just wanted to know if there's anything to this claim.
On top of that the 314 seems to be the least accurate at slow speeds as well.

http://www.predatorcues.com/shafts/predator-low-deflection-shaft/

Can someone explain?

Thanks

That's called marketing...
The 12.9mm tip diameter, gives you a bigger margin of error.
All the other stuff they say, I don't really think Predator can back up at all.

 

[9Ballr]

9Ballr,

Not sure why you got these not particularly helpful answers so far. (edit...I guess I only read the first couple) Here's the deal. I have a 314-3. I have shot with a Z3 and Vantage. When Predator uses the term "accuracy", what they mean is "low squirt". My experience says that the amount of deflection (squirt) you get with the 314-3 is *slightly* more than with the Z3 or Vantage. At most slower to medium speeds, the Z3 has ridiculously low squirt. The 314-3 is pretty good here but not quite as low as the Z. At higher speeds the 314-3 deflects noticeably more, as does the Z. The Vantage, however, is pretty consistent at all speeds. I will say that the Vantage is pretty impressive in that you can hammer a ball with english and the squirt is still quite low. So if what I said here matches what Predator's marketing says, then YES, there is something to their claim.

NOW, that being said, squirt characteristics are but one factor in selecting the right shaft for you. Feel and taper is pretty important for me. In my opinion, the 314-3 has the nicest hit of the 3. The taper is a really long pro taper, which I like. I am tall and use a long bridge. The Z3 and the Vantage have almost the same taper, except the Z is smaller diameter. Both have a conical taper. I personally don't really like a conical taper. Both have a very gradual taper, so even if you don't like conical, it's not *that* bad. The Vantage definitely feels BIG. Even though it is only a little bigger than the 314-3, it feels bigger because of the taper. The Vantage plays super stiff as a result of the size and taper. All the 3 series are on the stiff side, but the Vantage is the stiffest.

For me, a small diameter shaft is something I moved away from a couple of years ago. If you like small diameter, go with the Z. You could even try the S-Tuned Z3 from Seyberts (which has the taper modified to be a pro taper). This way it is small, but non-conical taper. I've heard the squirt on this is crazy low, but that the shaft feels a bit whippy.

For larger diameter, I don't think you could go very wrong with either the 314-3 or the Vantage. I suppose if you don't mind the conical taper, I'd do the Vantage. For me, the 314-3 is the best because of the taper and the hit.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

Thanks RUNOUT for a GREAT answer.
At last someone who knows what they're talking about and isn't just equating all
those claims to marketing or pushing their own anti or pro Predator agenda.

Thank you so much for your really good and educational answer.

The way you explained it, it now makes perfect sense.

Thanks again....:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[Kim Bye]

I've never shot with a vantage or 314-3. I have about 6 314-2, how much
better are the 3's and vantage better then the 2 ?

Predator has added 0.5mm to the ferrule, so it's now 12.8, the ferrule material is now LBM, so it will hold up better in the long run. The shaft sounds about the same due to the tip silencer pad. Other than that the shaft feels about the same as previous generation.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Thanks RUNOUT for a GREAT answer.
At last someone who knows what they're talking about and isn't just equating all
those claims to marketing or pushing their own anti or pro Predator agenda.

Thank you so much for your really good and educational answer.

The way you explained it, it now makes perfect sense.

Thanks again....:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Very glad I could help. Trust me I am very sensitive to stupid marketing claims. I happen to believe that the people at Predator are not morons. For the most part what their marketing stuff says seems to bear out in reality. That said, and like I mentioned, the things that make Predator good are not the only things that matter. I feel pretty confident about what I told you. I have conferred with many elite pro players about some of this stuff and incorporated their feedback into my view. I think there are many people here who simply scoff at things they don't understand, and write it off as marketing mumbo jumbo. In reality, pool players don't keep buying things that don't work, yet companies like OB and Predator stay in business lol. Let me know if you would like any more feedback.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Predator has added 0.5mm to the ferrule, so it's now 12.8, the ferrule material is now LBM, so it will hold up better in the long run. The shaft sounds about the same due to the tip silencer pad. Other than that the shaft feels about the same as previous generation.

Kim Bye,

Just a couple of points of correction here. Predator has added 0.05mm, not 0.5. 0.5mm additional would bring it up to 13.25 lol. Presumably a typo.

Also, the ferrule material is most assuredly NOT LBM. What you might be thinking of is how OB changed their ferrule material on the new Plus shafts with the white ferrules. I believe they went to an LBM or LBM like material. Predator ferrules are still made of some kinda top secret plastic. The BK3 ferrule appears to be an LBM type material, but all of the playing shafts are not.

I will say that for me, the one difference in the feel that I most notice is that the 314-2 seemed to have a more linear amount of squirt. The 3 series seems to have less at low speeds and more at high speeds. This is sort of an odd quality, and definitely takes some time to get used to. I love the hit of the 3, and the overall construction quality is very good, possibly better than the 2. However, having played for several months with the 3, I just got my 314-2 partial back from Andy Gilbert. Now this partial I got was *the nuts*. It is probably the nicest Predator shaft I have ever seen. Absolutely flawless grain, beautiful tone (sound...hit, whatever you want to call it). It just seems *natural* to me. Also it is way lighter without that big chunk of phenolic in the joint. This happens to work perfectly for me, since I am tall with long arms, and use have for the past 4 years used a mid extension. My cue feels wonderfully balanced now.

I would definitely recommend trying a partial shaft, and having your cue maker install the joint. So far of the 2 314-2 Predator shafts I've got from Andy Gilbert, they both seem vastly better than the off the shelf ones I have...better weight, better hit, far more feedback to the hit. I just love them. My 314-3 is off the shelf. It is a very very nice shaft. But I bet I would like a 314-3 partial even more. Anyway, food for thought.

KMRUNOUT

 

[JE54]

9Ballr,

Not sure why you got these not particularly helpful answers so far. (edit...I guess I only read the first couple) Here's the deal. I have a 314-3. I have shot with a Z3 and Vantage. When Predator uses the term "accuracy", what they mean is "low squirt". My experience says that the amount of deflection (squirt) you get with the 314-3 is *slightly* more than with the Z3 or Vantage. At most slower to medium speeds, the Z3 has ridiculously low squirt. The 314-3 is pretty good here but not quite as low as the Z. At higher speeds the 314-3 deflects noticeably more, as does the Z. The Vantage, however, is pretty consistent at all speeds. I will say that the Vantage is pretty impressive in that you can hammer a ball with english and the squirt is still quite low. So if what I said here matches what Predator's marketing says, then YES, there is something to their claim.

NOW, that being said, squirt characteristics are but one factor in selecting the right shaft for you. Feel and taper is pretty important for me. In my opinion, the 314-3 has the nicest hit of the 3. The taper is a really long pro taper, which I like. I am tall and use a long bridge. The Z3 and the Vantage have almost the same taper, except the Z is smaller diameter. Both have a conical taper. I personally don't really like a conical taper. Both have a very gradual taper, so even if you don't like conical, it's not *that* bad. The Vantage definitely feels BIG. Even though it is only a little bigger than the 314-3, it feels bigger because of the taper. The Vantage plays super stiff as a result of the size and taper. All the 3 series are on the stiff side, but the Vantage is the stiffest.

For me, a small diameter shaft is something I moved away from a couple of years ago. If you like small diameter, go with the Z. You could even try the S-Tuned Z3 from Seyberts (which has the taper modified to be a pro taper). This way it is small, but non-conical taper. I've heard the squirt on this is crazy low, but that the shaft feels a bit whippy.

For larger diameter, I don't think you could go very wrong with either the 314-3 or the Vantage. I suppose if you don't mind the conical taper, I'd do the Vantage. For me, the 314-3 is the best because of the taper and the hit.

Hope this helps,

KMRUNOUT

Nice description, thanks....................

 

[Jawzcue]

Thanks RUNOUT for a GREAT answer.
At last someone who knows what they're talking about and isn't just equating all
those claims to marketing or pushing their own anti or pro Predator agenda.

Thank you so much for your really good and educational answer.

The way you explained it, it now makes perfect sense.

Thanks again....:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Something everyone seems to leave out of the picture here is that Predator has different categories of measurement on their shafts. Stiffness (both static and energy transfer) is most certainly a pertinent category to consider when you change things like diameter and taper. Predator has moved away from focusing on just a simpler laminated/spliced engineering and put more thought into the different aspects of what would make a shaft better. How would anyone take a concept that has once already revolutionized a sport and improve on that? The answer, raise the level of efficiency in the areas where they were low before. Use more durable components. Use lighter components. Use stronger components. From the ferrule to the collar, the new shafts have all new materials in them.

Vantage has a higher accuracy across the board due to how the ENTIRE shaft is engineered, not just one specific piece.The strength comes from the foundation and shape of the taper. It is not conical (neither is the Z). They referred to it as their Pro-V taper. Somewhat of a mix of both types of tapers and strengthened it's base. So in essence the taper is shorter and thicker than that of the Z-3 or the 314-3. End result, heavier, stronger, more accurate. The Vantage is the heaviest of the 3 offerings. It is way more rugged at the base (by the joint end) which allows them to lower the front-end mass even more without losing all of these characteristics.

In a theoretical sense we are taking a light dowel and smashing a heavy sphere, which would stay on target longer, a skinny dowel, or a thicker heavier dowel?

Also, which of you have actually called Predator lately to ask this? I called them, they were very informative. This is pure science and they are being very transparent about it.