Predicting and Controlling Cue Ball Direction off a Rail with Follow Shots

[dr_dave]

FYI, I just posted a new video that demonstrates how to predict and control cue ball direction off a rail with natural-angle follow shots, and how to change these directions with speed and sidespin. Included later in the video is some head-cam POV footage to help with visualization. Check it out:

Contents:
0:00 - Intro
1:21 - Far From Rail
---- 1:55 - spin effects
---- 3:19 - speed effects
4:20 - Thin Hit Close to Rail
5:11 - Full Hit Close to Rail
6:13 - POV Examples
8:17 - More Info

Supporting Resources:

• CB control tutorial: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/tutorial/cue-ball-control/
• 30-degree rule: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/30-90-rules/30-degree-rule/
• System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
• sidespin CB path effects: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/30-90-rules/sidespin/
• inside spin effects: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/inside/
• throw tutorial: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/tutorial/throw/
• sidespin terminology and uses: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/sidespin/terminology-and-uses/
• CB path speed effects: https://drdavepoolinfo.com/faq/cue-ball-control/speed/

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Dave,
How did you hit the shot at the .08 second mark? It's the shot where the CB bends around after it comes off the rail.

There is absolutely NO WAY I could ever get that to happen on my Gold Crown IV.

r/DCP

 

[dr_dave]

Dave,
How did you hit the shot at the .08 second mark? It's the shot where the CB bends around after it comes off the rail.

There is absolutely NO WAY I could ever get that to happen on my Gold Crown IV.

r/DCP

It is covered in detail in the section starting at the 5:11 point.

It is just maximum topspin with medium-fast speed.

I think my CB and cloth conditions are typical (except the cloth on the cushions is fairly new).

 

[DynoDan]

I think my CB and cloth conditions are typical (except the cloth on the cushions is fairly new).

Go figure. My new Artemus cushions with 760 still bank progressively overlong as the angle widens, after nearly 5 years of use, and polished CB with inside english typically refuses to come off short. I wonder if there is a practical way to speed up wear on the rail cloth (?).

 

[straightline]

Go figure. My new Artemus cushions with 760 still bank progressively overlong as the angle widens, after nearly 5 years of use, and polished CB with inside english typically refuses to come off short. I wonder if there is a practical way to speed up wear on the rail cloth (?).

Don't polish the cue ball.

 

[dr_dave]

Go figure. My new Artemus cushions with 760 still bank progressively overlong as the angle widens, after nearly 5 years of use, and polished CB with inside english typically refuses to come off short. I wonder if there is a practical way to speed up wear on the rail cloth (?).

Polishing the CB will make kicks/banks go longer. See:

ball cleaning and surface treatment effects​

It is natural for kicks/banks to progressively go longer as the angle widens. See:

kick and bank shot effects​

Have you carefully tested your table using standard systems to compare the reaction to typical ("on system") conditions? It would be helpful to see a video of this if possible. See:

testing how a table kicks and banks​

 

[boogieman]

Go figure. My new Artemus cushions with 760 still bank progressively overlong as the angle widens, after nearly 5 years of use, and polished CB with inside english typically refuses to come off short. I wonder if there is a practical way to speed up wear on the rail cloth (?).

Eat fried chicken and rub the rails...

You could probably just rub them with your hands, not dirty hands but just natural hand oil should dirty them up a little if you do it consistently for a while.

You could also put some chalk on them and wipe it back clean, but I'd not want to do that to my own rails.

 

[jeephawk]

Eat fried chicken and rub the rails...

You could probably just rub them with your hands, not dirty hands but just natural hand oil should dirty them up a little if you do it consistently for a while.

You could also put some chalk on them and wipe it back clean, but I'd not want to do that to my own rails.

LOL, I just had my table "redone" in terms of position, leveling, new rails and cloth. I agree - mine can "age" naturally - no reason to help it along and have to replace cloth prematurely. It's kind of fun seeng what new and much different cloth is like to play on, but I'd sure expect to see some signs of aging in five years.

 

[dr_dave]

LOL, I just had my table "redone" in terms of position, leveling, new rails and cloth. I agree - mine can "age" naturally - no reason to help it along and have to replace cloth prematurely. It's kind of fun seeng what new and much different cloth is like to play on.

Agreed. That’s part of the learning process for a pool player … adjusting to table conditions and seeing how they change over time.

 

[gregcantrall]

. That’s part of the learning process

A study in the line of the cueball after impact with the object ball and how it can be changed by top and bottom should come first in the learning process.
So many beginners want to spin their rock for shape when center axis high and low adjustment can change the path without effecting the line whitey takes from cue tip to object ball.
Perhaps you address this in another video. A link with the caution to walk before run would be appropriate. Side on the cueball is an advanced technique and often the answer. Speed does add another variable that the side inserts. Center axis is a good place to start in learning how to control the path of the cueball after striking the object ball. Side can change the path whitey takes getting to the object ball along with aim point on the object ball and requires further calculation. Not necessarily a slide rule calculation but significant.
Thanks for your advanced studies.

 

[dr_dave]

A study in the line of the cueball after impact with the object ball and how it can be changed by top and bottom should come first in the learning process.
So many beginners want to spin their rock for shape when center axis high and low adjustment can change the path without effecting the line whitey takes from cue tip to object ball.
Perhaps you address this in another video.

I have lots of videos and other resource dealing with this topic. CB control is probably the one thing I have dedicated most of my energies toward over the years. Everything I've done is available here:

CB control resource page​

And here's a good place to start for most people:

CB control tutorial​

And if somebody just wanted to watch one video on this topic, it should be this one:

 

[gregcantrall]

CB control is probably the one thing I have dedicated most of my energies toward over the years

Lol, I still struggle with cueball control. Not sure where my cueball was made but at times it balks at my application of English.

 

[Baby Huey]

Dr. Dave, when looking at carom shots, do you use the "peace sign" to determine deflection? In particular, I'm talking about carom shots where two balls are close together on the rail and you're not sure whether to hit the first ball thicker or thinner?

 

[gregcantrall]

when looking at carom shots,

Willie Hoppe's book Billiards As It Should Be Played is a great source for knowledge on carom shots.

 

[dr_dave]

Dr. Dave, when looking at carom shots, do you use the "peace sign" to determine deflection? In particular, I'm talking about carom shots where two balls are close together on the rail and you're not sure whether to hit the first ball thicker or thinner?

I most certainly use both the 30° rule peace sign and the 90° tangent line, or something in between based on shot speed and distance between the hits (called “tweeter” shots), to plan and aim carom and kiss shots. For complete details, see the videos and info here:

carom and kiss shot aiming​

 

[iusedtoberich]

Dave,
How did you hit the shot at the .08 second mark? It's the shot where the CB bends around after it comes off the rail.

There is absolutely NO WAY I could ever get that to happen on my Gold Crown IV.

r/DCP

You get new cloth every 6 months! You should be able to do this shot with your eyes closed. Its just firm follow, at the right cut angle, nothing more.

 

[dr_dave]

You should be able to do this shot with your eyes closed. Its just firm follow, at the right cut angle, nothing more.

Agreed.

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

You get new cloth every 6 months! You should be able to do this shot with your eyes closed. Its just firm follow, at the right cut angle, nothing more.

Not every six months. Sometimes a year. Sometimes 18-24 months.

And I am telling you - the way that shot "BENDS" and curves coming off the rail - there is no way that shot could be made on my Gold Crown IV.

 

[dr_dave]

Not every six months. Sometimes a year. Sometimes 18-24 months.

And I am telling you - the way that shot "BENDS" and curves coming off the rail - there is no way that shot could be made on my Gold Crown IV.

Did you try to set it up just like in the video, and gradually increase speed with a high tip?

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Did you try to set it up just like in the video, and gradually increase speed with a high tip?

Yes, I just set up this shot. All my CB did was go straight over to the rail. No bending or curving like I expected.

When I hit the CB high about as hard as I am physically capable of hitting it there was a very slight bend. Probably about 1/4 of what I am seeing on this video.

It just convinces me even more that this GCIV has some kind of issue that prevents it from playing like it should.