predominance of low left/right english?

PKM

PKM

OB-1 Kenobi
Silver Member
In one of Jimmy Reid's DVDs, he makes the claim that low outside english makes up 80-85% of 9-ball and 8-ball.

If I recall correctly in one of the matches posted by Billiards Club (it was mentioned on here before but I'm not sure where), Buddy Hall mentioned that low right makes up a significant portion of shots, I don't remember the exact wording. This would seem to be an even more extreme claim since it would call for a lot of inside english, although maybe he wouldn't claim such a high percentage.

I would certainly defer to their expertise but it seems like an exaggeration. Even if it was lower it is still interesting. Is it that players are more comfortable with these shots so they play position in order to use it more often?
 
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PKM said:
In one of Jimmy Reid's DVDs, he makes the claim that low outside english makes up 80-85% of 9-ball and 8-ball.

If I recall correctly in one of the matches posted by Billiards Club (it was mentioned on here before but I'm not sure where), Buddy Hall mentioned that low right makes up a significant portion of shots, I don't remember the exact wording. This would seem to be an even more extreme claim since it would call for a lot of inside english, although maybe he wouldn't claim such a high percentage.

I would certainly defer to their expertise but do you think this is an exaggeration? Even if it was lower it is still interesting. Is it that players are more comfortable with these shots so they play position in order to use it more often?
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It's just because of the nature of position play and odds of where the balls will lay. Jimmy's is a high estimate but I would have to consider the meaning. Low outside english: quite a high percentage. Low outside draw stroke: no, a low percentage. This may sound conflicting but it's not.

Since you are usually shooting at the closest corner, you are bringing the cueball somewhere near the middle of the table most of the time to keep your angles. If you use inside, you would constantly be shooting at the more distant pocket.

In this example, (rotation order) the ideal shot on most of these positions is low outside, and they are all virtually the same angle. Recognize this angle? All good position players recognize these shots. One tip low, one tip left, or even less. But these are not draw shots. The low keeps the cueball from rolling forward and the english brings it back.

CueTable Help

 
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Buddy meant low outside english. Not inside... He later states that if you watch the matchs again...

The reason, for me, to use low outside (when you can) is -

Outside english allows me to hit the ball more full. This gives me a better target to see and a more ball to hit. The more ball you are hitting, the greater margin of error you have in your aming. Just making these number up here but they are close. less than half ball hit has 2mm margin of error and more than half ball hit has 4mm margin of error on contact point.

Also, using outside english eliminates collision induced throw. So you do not, normally, need to compensate for any CIT. Dirty balls is more obvious...

Low gives the OB a natural roll since it has been given top spin from the CB. This also eliminates some CIT.


Thats what I have come to know and I pocket balls alot easier using low outside /shrug
 
I think it might have something to do with being right or left handed and also witch is their dominate eye. I personally feel more comfortable with low right and therefore that will be taking into account for where I play position.
 
forgot to mention why I can ht the ball fuller with low and outside.

Side spin throws the ball in the oposite direction. So you can hit full and still pocket the ball.

Low does the same thing but with less effect. Unless you are using extreme low spin. Extreme low will curve the ball (thats my explaination :)). Proof being, you have to aim real full for extreme backspin shots or you will miss. Sometimes it feels like you are hitting the ball dead center when you should be hitting it at 1/4 ball...


Because of those phenominas, you can alter your aiming points to take advantage of the fuller ball hit...

However, outside english can eliminate "helper" english which you absolutely need sometimes... You just need to know when to use which shot to maximize your pocketing percentages...
 
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If we scatter the balls to spread on each side of the table (rotation order), a number of these shots would require some sort of outside, likely a tip low:


CueTable Help

 
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Makes sense, thanks. But what about the old expression "draw for show, follow for dough"?

Even if you're not using draw on many of these shots, some people have the philosophy to use mostly follow to get position.

Different strokes, I suppose.

diffrentstrokesseason2.jpg
 
There is another reason the combinations

A (low & outside) and B (high & inside)

are fundamentally different from

C (low & inside) and D (high & outside)

and it has to do with the nature of sensitivity to errors in tip placement

Think first of the A & B combinations. Lets say you hit a ball with low & outside into the corner pocket and send the cueball off the long rail to the center of the table. Now what happen if you did the same shot with a little less low but a little more outside. The less low would send it steeper into the rail, and the more outside would widen the angle off the rail--so you might still get to the center of the table.

OK, now try more low and less outside. With the more low you hit further up the rail, and then the less outside is exactly what's needed to get you to the center of the table.

The A/B combinations have effects that add together like this. The C/D combinations have effects that tend to work against one another.



PKM said:
In one of Jimmy Reid's DVDs, he makes the claim that low outside english makes up 80-85% of 9-ball and 8-ball.

If I recall correctly in one of the matches posted by Billiards Club (it was mentioned on here before but I'm not sure where), Buddy Hall mentioned that low right makes up a significant portion of shots, I don't remember the exact wording. This would seem to be an even more extreme claim since it would call for a lot of inside english, although maybe he wouldn't claim such a high percentage.

I would certainly defer to their expertise but it seems like an exaggeration. Even if it was lower it is still interesting. Is it that players are more comfortable with these shots so they play position in order to use it more often?
Click to expand...
 
TATE said:
If we scatter the balls to spread on each side of the table (rotation order), a number of these shots would require some sort of outside, likely a tip low:


CueTable Help

Click to expand...


I might use low/outside on the 1 and the 2, but, I think on the 3 and the 5, I would use high/outside.

Just the way I play. When I first started playing, all I shot with was low english. Since then, I mix it it up quite a bit.

Works for me.
 
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