Prepping for the 2013 Super Billiards Expo 14.1 Challenge !!

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well everyone Steve and I are planning the Super Billiards Expo 14.1 Challenge once again and have decided after last year's events to open the floor to anyone who might have some good ideas in terms of format.

What we have so far is that we are going to break it down into 3 tiers.

The first tier will be for scores between 0 and 75. The top two finishers in this division will play for first and second place money in that division.

The 2nd tier will be for scores between 76 and 134. The top four finishers in this division will play for the top four spots paid in that division.

The 3rd tier will be for scores between 135 and above. As always the top 8 will play for that prize money as well.

Players must agree upon entering the tournament to our rules which will outline the way we run the event as well as new rules pertaining to the fact that a player if not available to play the final stage of this event will be forefited and their spot in the final portion of their division will be given to the next player in line who is available to compete, thereby guaranteeing, fans, sponsors, promoters, and organizers alike the finals they deserve. Also another rule that was in place last year but may have been confused by some including our own event staff and volunteers is that if you run into a higher tier level that is where you are. We don't care what your average is or if you had a good day or if you are a nine ball player who had a good run. If you score in a certain tier thats where you are period no discussions, no arguments thats what it is.

We are also working on getting our own dedicated live stream going for the event. We have some incredible new sponsors this year and we are trying to pull this off as well to better showcase our sponsors etc.

We are open to ideas on formatting the event. We know that no matter which way we go in this that someone isn't going to be happy but thats pool I guess. (You can't please everyone) but we are going to do out best to make it as fair and balanced as possible to everyone who competes.

We are also doing our best to get a third table into the mix as we feel this would be extremely beneficial to us both in the opening stages of the event getting more people and more money through for the prize pool and of course during the tournament stage as well.

Well I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thanks so much.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have tentative plans to attend & can hopefully stay for the whole event. Will be participating in the 14.1 challenge. My question is which days are devoted to qualifying & when would the finals be held. Just in case I get lucky & develop a stroke between now & then.
 

TSW

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The pro-level playoff is a good idea, but as an amateur player I would prefer not having the other two tiers finish with a playoff. I for one am not planning on staying through Sunday, and I think that a lot of amateurs will do the same. So I'm less inclined to participate if I know I can't get in the money.

At the amateur tiers I expect that you will wind up forfeiting a bunch of people before you get down to the 2 or 4 who are actually there to play on Sunday. Then if someone who had been forfeited shows up late, you have a mess.

Also, as far as the money goes, you don't want there to be a financial incentive for someone to run 75 and miss ball 76, so that they are guaranteed to be in the playoff for that tier.

It's a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to it regardless. This is just my opinion - take it or leave it.
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The pro-level playoff is a good idea, but as an amateur player I would prefer not having the other two tiers finish with a playoff. I for one am not planning on staying through Sunday, and I think that a lot of amateurs will do the same. So I'm less inclined to participate if I know I can't get in the money.

At the amateur tiers I expect that you will wind up forfeiting a bunch of people before you get down to the 2 or 4 who are actually there to play on Sunday. Then if someone who had been forfeited shows up late, you have a mess.

Also, as far as the money goes, you don't want there to be a financial incentive for someone to run 75 and miss ball 76, so that they are guaranteed to be in the playoff for that tier.

It's a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to it regardless. This is just my opinion - take it or leave it.


Thats a good point actually. Pay the top finishers in those tiers on Saturday possibly?

As for missing ball 76, unfortunately there is no way to stop it. Any time you have any kind of handicap system or a rating system like this you will as I am sure you know always have people who will try to mess with the system.

Thank you for your input though I know we appreciate it!!
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Thank you so much for the input so far.

we are going to do everything in our power to make the event Bigger and Better every year.

Because this event is yours as well as ours. that is why we need everyone's feedback so we can see what everyone wants to make just that happen.

I thank you all for making this event happen, and look forward to seeing you all there once again !!

-Steve
 

topcat1953

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Would you please go over the entry fees and the scoring?

If I remember correctly, each player has several attempts for a hi-run. But is it the hi-run that counts or the total balls made in the attempts that count?
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Would you please go over the entry fees and the scoring?

If I remember correctly, each player has several attempts for a hi-run. But is it the hi-run that counts or the total balls made in the attempts that count?


Entry Fee is $25 and that gets you 5 attempts. the run score is based on a cumulative total of the 5 attempts !!
 

BayGene

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Doing it again, year after year!

Steve and Charles:

You know you have my support.
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
-

Thank you so much for the input so far.

we are going to do everything in our power to make the event Bigger and Better every year.

Because this event is yours as well as ours. that is why we need everyone's feedback so we can see what everyone wants to make just that happen.

I thank you all for making this event happen, and look forward to seeing you all there once again !!

-Steve

From experience I can say that this is not the case. Dozens of times I've witnessed a long list of amateurs patiently waiting for their turn to shoot when a pro showed up. The pro always and automatically got inserted next while the amateurs who had been waiting get to wait much, much longer. Not only isn't this fair, but it defies the laws of financial gravity. Amateurs have the potential to hand over A LOT more money in entry fees since they hold the table for much less time than a pro. If this Challenge is truly meant to promote straight pool play, shouldn't amateur participation be welcomed and encouraged just as much as professional participation? If the event "is for us", why does the "us" part get lips service leading up to the Event, but then get snubbed when we want to participate at the event?

Ron F
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
What we have so far is that we are going to break it down into 3 tiers.

The first tier will be for scores between 0 and 75. The top two finishers in this division will play for first and second place money in that division.

The 2nd tier will be for scores between 76 and 134. The top four finishers in this division will play for the top four spots paid in that division.



What is the plan if/when a boatload of entrants end up with a total of 75? Same question for 134?

Ron F
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From experience I can say that this is not the case. Dozens of times I've witnessed a long list of amateurs patiently waiting for their turn to shoot when a pro showed up. The pro always and automatically got inserted next while the amateurs who had been waiting get to wait much, much longer. Not only isn't this fair, but it defies the laws of financial gravity. Amateurs have the potential to hand over A LOT more money in entry fees since they hold the table for much less time than a pro. If this Challenge is truly meant to promote straight pool play, shouldn't amateur participation be welcomed and encouraged just as much as professional participation? If the event "is for us", why does the "us" part get lips service leading up to the Event, but then get snubbed when we want to participate at the event?

Ron F

Ron you are right in years past the pros did get special treatment because of time constraints of their scheduling with the pro event but as you very well know as you yourself were helping out at the booth last year being a part of the event staff it is difficult to make everyone happy. We have rectified that in last years event with players like Charlie Williams Mika and many more like John Schmidt having to wait to play their turn at the table where we even tried to get another table from the trick shot event to help alleviate this.

Like any event that has a handicap or a tier system yes there is the chance that players will pace themselves, however this is the fairest way we can do this without making the event completely open as no amateur players would play and it would simply be for the pros as no one would want to "donate" to the likes of the very players mentioned above.

As for the amateurs who want to participate in the event no one was snubbed last year including you. And in all honesty if you noticed this so much as you say and you were a part of the event last year, why didn't you say something or bring something to mine or Steve's attention as opposed to complaining about playing into a higher bracket than you feel you should have.

I will reiterate as I have before. Steve and I are not professional tournament directors nor do we have the budget to hire one and are simply trying the best we can to put on a great event. Is it perfect? Far from it and we are still learning something new as we go every year. This year it was plan out lighting way ahead in advance and to break down our structure and almost start over from the ground up.

I am sorry that you played higher than your normal speed and were penalized for that but you knew as well as everyone else what the brackets were and you played past it. Was I supposed to give you special treatment again like the players mentioned above ? Was that what you were looking for or did you somehow feel that because you were a part of the event that the event rules didn't apply to you?

That being said were the brackets correct? Probably not hence the reason why we are trying to update the event literally every year. Who knows at this point what the future holds but we are doing our best.

This year coming we will do our best to ensure everyone gets their chance at the table. I just wish like I said since you witnessed it dozens and dozens of times that you came to us instead of keeping quiet about this like so many other things that I have heard from others and now read about. Perhaps some of those amateurs who you say got snubbed would have gotten the chance to play sooner if you simply opened your mouth as you are now.
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What we have so far is that we are going to break it down into 3 tiers.

The first tier will be for scores between 0 and 75. The top two finishers in this division will play for first and second place money in that division.

The 2nd tier will be for scores between 76 and 134. The top four finishers in this division will play for the top four spots paid in that division.



What is the plan if/when a boatload of entrants end up with a total of 75? Same question for 134?

Ron F

And of course as I mentioned above Ron we are as always open to suggestions. If you have any ideas for this please jump in as we are all ears to you and anyone else that wants to give us some advice in this area to make the event more fair and evenly balanced.
 

gerard soriano

HIGH RUN STILL TO COME !
Silver Member
Sorry if this has already been answered but am I reading this correct all 5 attempts are added together ? Some people (not me) will have totals in the 3, 4 &500 "S
 

BayGene

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
500 ball runs over 5 innings...

...would make a great show, but I don't believe anything like that has ever resulted from a "Play the Ghost" format.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
To the members of this forum, at a restaurant would you feel someone is cutting in front of you if they called ahead and made a reservation?

Charlie,
How feasible is it to accept a limited number of reservations to the wait list. Allow people to pre-pay and put a start time next to their names (1pm, 2pm, 3pm) on the wait list. If they don't check in 10 minutes prior, then call the next person waiting on the list. This could work for amateurs and pros.

And of course as I mentioned above Ron we are as always open to suggestions. If you have any ideas for this please jump in as we are all ears to you and anyone else that wants to give us some advice in this area to make the event more fair and evenly balanced.
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To the members of this forum, at a restaurant would you feel someone is cutting in front of you if they called ahead and made a reservation?

Charlie,
How feasible is it to accept a limited number of reservations to the wait list. Allow people to pre-pay and put a start time next to their names (1pm, 2pm, 3pm) on the wait list. If they don't check in 10 minutes prior, then call the next person waiting on the list. This could work for amateurs and pros.

Henry we did this last year in a way where a person would leave there name down with us on the wait list and make their reservation we would give them an estimated wait time. We would then call them on their cell phone when their spot was ready and they had about 5-10 minutes to get there otherwise the next person was called up to play regardless of what the original players situation was. I know at one point Corey Deuel had his name down and wanted to play but couldn't because of the pro event so we had to give up his spot to the next player.
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sorry if this has already been answered but am I reading this correct all 5 attempts are added together ? Some people (not me) will have totals in the 3, 4 &500 "S

Hey Gerard the only person to ever break 300 was Mika I believe. Other than that no one has done it. The diamond tables are tough and we are playing on brand new cloth as well. I am not saying these guys aren't capable of it they obviously are but to put together back to back to back to back to back runs like that is some feat!
 
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