Prepping for the 2013 Super Billiards Expo 14.1 Challenge !!

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
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"Ron you are right in years past the pros did get special treatment because of time constraints of their scheduling with the pro event but as you very well know as you yourself were helping out at the booth last year being a part of the event staff it is difficult to make everyone happy. We have rectified that in last years event with players like Charlie Williams Mika and many more like John Schmidt having to wait to play their turn at the table where we even tried to get another table from the trick shot event to help alleviate this."

That’s complete BS and you know it, Charlie. You bumped groups of amateurs all week last year. I know for certain because, as you mentioned, I was working the booth and keeping score when you did it. You even found it humorous to ridicule amateurs – don’t you remember after bumping some regular guy named Frank you laughed and said, “Which sounds better, ‘ladies and gentleman, on table 1 we have Mika Immonen and on table 2, John Schmidt’ or ‘ladies and gentlemen, on table 1 we have Mika Immonen and on table 2, Frank Scholicter’”. It seemed difficult to make everyone happy because you have a “this is MY event, I make the rules and I can break the rules” type of attitude. Nobody was willing to open their mouth to you about anything because of your shitty attitude.

"As for the amateurs who want to participate in the event no one was snubbed last year including you. And in all honesty if you noticed this so much as you say and you were a part of the event last year, why didn't you say something or bring something to mine or Steve's attention as opposed to complaining about playing into a higher bracket than you feel you should have."

Why didn’t I complain??? Are you effing serious! I blew up when I found out. Steve was welllllll aware as were you.

"I am sorry that you played higher than your normal speed and were penalized for that but you knew as well as everyone else what the brackets were and you played past it. Was I supposed to give you special treatment again like the players mentioned above ? Was that what you were looking for or did you somehow feel that because you were a part of the event that the event rules didn't apply to you? "

Completely false statement on so many fronts that it borders on ridiculous!
I did not play higher than my normal speed and never said I did. I played once. My runs were: 1st attempt: missed break shot; 2nd attempt:42; 3rd attempt: 14; 4th attempt: missed break shot; 5th attempt: 42; for a total of 96.

This is an event for people into straight pool. My high run in playing for 30 years is 80. I play at an amateur level; so do you; so does Steve; so does 99% of the guys in this forum except the obvious few. Being able to average 19 balls from a break shot classifies someone as a professional??? But Bob Madenjian, who regularly plays in professional events is classified as an amateur??? Madenjian placed 6th in the senior division of the Amateur Championship – finishing higher than guys like Dennis Bolella, Mike Lambros, Steve Lillis and Ed Matushonek. He is a KNOWN professional pool player, but an amateur in your eyes?? And who ended up winning the amateur bracket, Charlie? The owner of Raxx, wasn’t it? Coincidentally a large contributor to the event and the owner of a room that you and Steve play at regularly, no? You’re asking for advice, so here’s some hopefully you’ll use – avoid integrity issues at all costs. Even the appearance of an integrity issue is unprofessional.
And what are you talking about, “I knew as well as everyone else what the brackets were”???? That’s a COMPLETE lie! Nobody knew. They were never made public – ever. I asked several times out of curiosity and Steve said he didn’t know what they were going to be – stating that they were not decided yet - it depended on what types of scores were posted. I wasn’t looking for any type of special treatment at all! I was simply looking for fairness and integrity; something year after year you’ve proven that you have a tough time delivering on.


"This year coming we will do our best to ensure everyone gets their chance at the table. I just wish like I said since you witnessed it dozens and dozens of times that you came to us instead of keeping quiet about this like so many other things that I have heard from others and now read about. Perhaps some of those amateurs who you say got snubbed would have gotten the chance to play sooner if you simply opened your mouth as you are now."

Charles, ask Steve. I did voice my opinion – repeatedly and strenuously. And you know full well I did.

20 years of attending the Expo I never spent more than 1 day at it. Last year, however, me and my girl both took time off from work and rented a room for 4 days to come down and help make the Event as successful as possible. We even split a room with Steve “Boy, can that guy snore!” Kurtz to help make it easier for everyone financially. The entire time we volunteered you were disconnected and cold and had a “my way or the highway” attitude – unless a known pro was at the booth, then we could only see your feet sticking out of their ass. It’s rare to volunteer for something you believe in and want to succeed only to walk away never wanting to be involved again because the guy running it is a complete horse’s ass.


Ron F


Ron F
 

Ron F

Ron F
Silver Member
Daily Deadline

In the past there was a nighttime deadline for qualifying - I believe it was 2:00 am. At 2:00 the booth was supposed to be closed and no qualifying play was to take place until the next morning. Will there be a deadline again this coming year? If so, will it be enforced for some and ignored for others?

I ask because the year before last a shooter stayed and paid an extra day for a room because he was in the final 8 of the Pro Division. When he showed up the next morning to play in the tournament he discovered a pro was allowed to qualify until 5:00 am - which knocked him out of the top 8. Is a professional tournament director needed to make these types of decisions?

Ron F
 

ForumGhost516

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ron you're right about all of it man including the part about me being a horses ass. Im glad you got it all out there and hopefully feel better after venting and the event can move on as planned for next year. I appreciate your input and will take all of your suggestions into consideration as Steve and I move forward in the planning of next year's event. This argument could go on for days and days and threads and threads and truthfully I don't care enough about you to do so. I literally had a two page response typed up but I would rather just end it at this. Have a great holiday and I hope you and your girl have a very happy healthy and successful new year.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Take reservations with callback, what more can a player ask?

Henry we did this last year in a way where a person would leave there name down with us on the wait list and make their reservation we would give them an estimated wait time. We would then call them on their cell phone when their spot was ready and they had about 5-10 minutes to get there otherwise the next person was called up to play regardless of what the original players situation was. I know at one point Corey Deuel had his name down and wanted to play but couldn't because of the pro event so we had to give up his spot to the next player.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Folks:

Just some random thoughts from a guy that manned the booth -- all of which is NOT NEW (i.e. these have already been discussed face-to-face, or else mentioned in follow-up PMs and emails):

  1. The idea behind a pro commandeering a table for a very long time is VERY SOUND, and anyone who'd manned the 14.1 booth can personally tell you about this. For the time it takes a, say, Darren Appleton, to execute his 5 tries at the table -- when each of the tries may result in a 50/60/70/.../100+ ball run -- at least 5 or 6 amateurs could've ponied-up their entry fee and did their 5 tries at the table. And this is best case, because at least someone like Darren is a fairly quick shot! If you get someone extremely deliberate like Charlie Williams at the table, you may as well put yellow police tape -- or even one of those roadside accident-scene tents over and around the table -- because it's going to be out of commission for a very long time.

  2. With [1] in mind, it behooves us to "head 'em up and move 'em out" when it comes to the amateurs -- get those tables going with amateurs, and watch the entry fees roll in. I've personally seen where amateurs that would otherwise pony-up their entry fees and take a shot at the challenge, DIDN'T, because there was a pro at one of the tables that they'd either a.) want to watch instead, or b.) not want to be seen shooting on the next table for fear of performance comparison with the pro. While I was keeping score in the booth, I'd chat up the rail a bit, asking some that I *know* wanted to try their hand at the challenge, but because, say, John Schmidt was at one of the tables, they declined for the very "a"/"b" reasons I just mentioned.

  3. I do agree there has to be a cut-off on the last day prior to selection of the "final 8" for the tournament. I do remember a certain pro -- who will go unnamed, but those who know this particular pro also know it's par for the course with him -- that commandeered a table all the way until the wee hours of the morning trying to qualify / knock other pros out of the final 8. I know that as a booth exhibitor, it's easy to fall into the trap of letting that pro's sponsor "strongarm" you when there's fear or hope of that sponsor also sponsoring the 14.1 challenge itself -- e.g. "you're going to take care of my boy, right?" That stuff is rampant in the pool world -- and we know it's rampant in any industry for that matter -- but it's gotta stop if the 14.1 Challenge is to be unbiased and fair. I really felt bad for any pro that, at the normal end of festitivities on the second-to-last day, left the premises confident they were in the final 8, only to find out the next morning that they'd been knocked-out of the final 8 by the aforementioned table-commandeering pro long after SBE hours had ended. I know if that happened to me, I'd go bonkers.

  4. Proper time and schedule management by the pros. I think this is key. Obviously, pros have other events they play in, and the 14.1 Challenge is a "sidecar" benefit. Pros obviously have to conform to match schedules, have to be aware of and time their day around match times, etc. I can tell you, having played in the Open/Pro 10-ball event year after year, that you know your match times well in advance. The TDs do a great job in keeping you informed, and WILL EVEN CALL YOU ON YOUR CELL if your match time has to be changed for whatever reason -- but they ask you, first. Thus, pros do not have the excuse of strong-arming the 14.1 Challenge because of "match times." They know full well, far in advance, what their match times are. Thus, pros should have to schedule their 14.1 Challenge table time in advance. It often occurred where a pro would walk up, give the old whine and sob story of "match times," and jump ahead in the queue right then and there, bumping other people (amateurs) with money in hand. This has got to stop. Just like a restaurant takes reservations and won't accept walk-ins, so too should the 14.1 Challenge with the pros. These pros have no excuse. Obviously, this is considered on a case-by-case basis, and if the tables are empty / not being used, have at it. But the foundation should be such that a pro cannot just walk-up and jump the line because of his/her "conflicting match times" -- especially during times when the 14.1 Challenge is busy. Take a number, dude, and wait your turn.

  5. Pamphlets or other marketing material for the 14.1 Challenge? E.g. little paper flyers/inserts (something like those car insurance flyers that fall out of magazines -- about the size of an index card or less) that get handed out with the SBE booklet? (If they're made out of plain magazine paper, thousands of these can be printed up for a cheap price -- something that one of the sponsors can easily handle.) Yes, many of these will end up on the floor. But you know something? That's great advertisement -- sort of like impromptu sales-ad placement right there on the ground. I'm not embarrassed to admit when at a carnival or other public entertainment, a discarded flyer like this on the ground caught my eye, and I picked it up, ultimately going to that event.

Again, all of these are not new, but hopefully they trigger some additions to an "oh yes, let's give that a try" list.

All in good favor / good intentions as well.

Thoughts?
-Sean
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi-run Challenge

Hey Gerard the only person to ever break 300 was Mika I believe. Other than that no one has done it. The diamond tables are tough and we are playing on brand new cloth as well. I am not saying these guys aren't capable of it they obviously are but to put together back to back to back to back to back runs like that is some feat!


We will have the CSI Hi-Run Challenge at the Rio in July 2013!!
Good luck to Charlie and Steve in April at the SBE.

Just went back and checked hi runs at the BCAPL Hi-Run Challenge
2011: 313 total. Danny Harriman (with a 199 run)
281 total. John Schmidt
261 total. Mika
233 total. Corey Deuel

2012: 238 total. Dennis Orcullo
218 total. Mila
214 total. Corey Deuel

These are all the runs over 200 total
Remember - we only do 4 tries (SBE has 5 tries)

Just some interesting numbers.
Maybe the West Coast guys run more balls than those East Coast guys?

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
How about you designate one table as the PRO table and the other one is the Amateur tables and the amateurs ONLY get to play on the pro table with the understanding that when a pro shows up they have that table next.

That way amateurs can continue uninterrupted on one table.

Play with a shot clock with one extension per rack. 30 seconds per shot. It's January, everyone reading this has 3 months to get acquainted with playing under a shot clock. That means a maximum of 7-8 minutes per rack.

Charge pros more. Why not $100 for five tries instead of $25? or $50? They WILL be at the table much longer so they should pay more than $5 per try.

Make the finals a play or no pay event. Don't play then you don't get paid. Fury got screwed hard last year when no finals were played and so no stream, no recording, no advertising opportunity - hopefully that won't happen to the sponsor this year.

Perhaps you could also work out something with Ed at Sandcastle Billiards and let people go there to do their attempts. He will have a shuttle going between the venue and his room constantly. So tell people they are welcome to go there and have someone stationed over there to be the scorekeeper. If possible set it up on a stream that is constantly recording on Ustream so that any runs can be verified if needed.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Good luck with it and I hope someone breaks 526 in one try!
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
[...]
Just went back and checked hi runs at the BCAPL Hi-Run Challenge
2011: 313 total. Danny Harriman (with a 199 run)
281 total. John Schmidt
261 total. Mika
233 total. Corey Deuel

2012: 238 total. Dennis Orcullo
218 total. Mila
214 total. Corey Deuel

These are all the runs over 200 total
Remember - we only do 4 tries (SBE has 5 tries)

Just some interesting numbers.
Maybe the West Coast guys run more balls than those East Coast guys?

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL

Very funny, Mark. Especially since those "guys" listed above *are* East Coast guys! (With the notable exception of John Schmidt and Dennis Orcullo of course.) :D

Can't explain the reason for the higher runs at the CSI event, other than there must be something different about the tables between the CSI and SBE events. I do know that the Diamond 9-footers in the SBE 14.1 Challenge weren't "easy" tables by any stretch of the imagination, and you might recall there were some lighting challenges as well. (Remember, this past SBE was at the Oaks Center in PA, and Allen H. & crew "experimented" with the concept of not mounting the table lights over the tables, but rather relied upon the ceiling lighting to provide that light.)

Anyway, I don't think Allen's crew will make that mistake again. Plus, it's at another new venue, in Edison, NJ, and probably light years better than the Oaks Center.

We'll see, right?

-Sean
 
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