Tbe answer is no, but he was better than Dennis this week in both offense and tactical play, and it added up to a title.
Normally, you'd give the tactical edge to Dennis, but not this week
Pro 9-ball is a breaking contest.
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Tbe answer is no, but he was better than Dennis this week in both offense and tactical play, and it added up to a title.
Normally, you'd give the tactical edge to Dennis, but not this week
I'm not the biggest fan of Shane. I have tremendous respect for his game though. Last night he truly proved how great of a player he is (not that he hasn't proven it before)- he played some of the best pool I've ever seen in my life. He was getting out from everywhere. It wasn't just his break (although one could argue that it was the difference in the match because Dennis played the best of anybody I've ever seen lose a match- he was top notch- just missed one shot in the entire match!)
The most miraculous shot in my opinion was his (Shane's) double bridge jump shot. I've never seen anybody use two bridges at once ever- add in a jump shot- my goodness- to quote Earl "how strong is that?"
The most miraculous shot in my opinion was his (Shane's) double bridge jump shot. I've never seen anybody use two bridges at once ever- add in a jump shot- my goodness- to quote Earl "how strong is that?"
I dont get it????
There is nothing wrong with 9 Ball, if you or anybody doesn't like it don't play it or watch it, the game is fine as it is. The problem is there aren't enough tournaments so that the players that did not fair well or who got knocked out early can plan for the next stop..., and theres no money in the payout.
If there was a 50k or 100k added 9 Ball tournament every month, no one would care about the break and the quality of play would go up too.
There is nothing wrong with 9 Ball, if you or anybody doesn't like it don't play it or watch it, the game is fine as it is. The problem is there aren't enough tournaments so that the players that did not fair well or who got knocked out early can plan for the next stop..., and theres no money in the payout.
If there was a 50k or 100k added 9 Ball tournament every month, no one would care about the break and the quality of play would go up too.
You're kind of putting the cart before the horse. In order to get a 100k added 9-ball tournament every month, more people are going to want to watch it besides just pool junkies. The reason there's no money is because there's no audience.
I think post #18 is right on it. This is your profession, your lively hood . You've been playing your entire life. Why the hell wouldn't you master or try to the most important part of the contest. When Tiger Woods came on the scene he out drove everybody . It was a HUGE advantage. You know what happened the pros WORKED on it to become stronger & longer .Now Woods is the top 10 to20 in driving maybe. No more advantage. Mike D. appears to have really worked on it the last few years and has gotten much better, he got smoked in the quarters by the better player. The 2 best were in the finals .The guy who won played the best in the finals. it was clear to anyone who watched it the rack had NOTHING to do with the outcome ........Congrats Shane you earned it you deserve it. One of the best finals I have seen in a long time.
IMO, tennis is harder than pool. And the degree of difficulty makes tennis LOOK HARD to fans.
I think golf is harder than pool. The best players in the world hit plenty of bad shots on tough courses.
Pool. when played by the best players in the world, LOOKS EASY ( and we all know its not! ). The finals of the open saturday was one of the most exciting things I've ever seen ( and I'm not a tournment fan ). But, to someone that doesnt play much pool, it looks easy, no big deal ( but it is ).
In the early 1970's, Richie Florence flew in to Beenie's room to play Buddy Hall 8 ahead for $2500 ( big money in the 70's ). While I was watching, a guy walked out and said: " that Hall guy's not that good. I can make all thoses shots". Buddy got the cash with all thoses "easy" shots!
Pool needs it own, fast pace, exciting game for all to warch ( players and non-players )
I believe American Rotation ( with 1 rule change ) could be the game. Make it an all offense game with 1 rule: You must pocket a ball or the in coming player gets BIH. All offense.
Just my 2 cents.
I think golf is harder than pool. The best players in the world hit plenty of bad shots on tough courses.
Pool. when played by the best players in the world, LOOKS EASY ( and we all know its not! ). The finals of the open saturday was one of the most exciting things I've ever seen ( and I'm not a tournment fan ). But, to someone that doesnt play much pool, it looks easy, no big deal ( but it is ).
In the early 1970's, Richie Florence flew in to Beenie's room to play Buddy Hall 8 ahead for $2500 ( big money in the 70's ). While I was watching, a guy walked out and said: " that Hall guy's not that good. I can make all thoses shots". Buddy got the cash with all thoses "easy" shots!
Pool needs it own, fast pace, exciting game for all to warch ( players and non-players )
I believe American Rotation ( with 1 rule change ) could be the game. Make it an all offense game with 1 rule: You must pocket a ball or the in coming player gets BIH. All offense.
Just my 2 cents.
Here are some stats of the tournament, thanks to one of our members.
Breaker made at least one ball and did not foul:
Breaker won the game: 204 (34% of the 592 games)
Breaker lost the game: 111 (19%)
Breaker fouled on the break:
Breaker won the game: 12 (2%)
Breaker lost the game: 41 (7%)
Breaker broke dry (without fouling):
Breaker won the game: 82 (14%)
Breaker lost the game: 142 (24%)
Therefore, whereas the breaker won 50% (298) of all 592 games,
He won 65% (204 of 315) of the games in which he made at least one ball on the break and did not foul.
He won 23% (12 of 53) of the games in which he fouled on the break.
He won 37% (82 of 224) of the games in which he broke dry but did not foul.
He won 34% (94 of 277) of the games in which he either fouled on the break or broke dry without fouling
If the breaker only won 50% of the games, that to me is an even-steven number, not a leaning number.
The break shot in any game, adds to any player's first shot in the game, otherwise folks would be saying, "I won the game, it's your break". fat chance.
They put the rack on the modified Spot location & the break shot boys still did a great job of making a ball on the break.
Joe Tucker wrote a book on Break Shots, then we wrote another one together. Did we sell 40,000 copies, so folks could learn about the Break Shot, nope. Folks just don't care to learn or practice.
Congrats to SVB for another win. He knows the win came from knowledge gained & skill from practice, not trickery.....
Breaker made at least one ball and did not foul:
Breaker won the game: 204 (34% of the 592 games)
Breaker lost the game: 111 (19%)
Breaker fouled on the break:
Breaker won the game: 12 (2%)
Breaker lost the game: 41 (7%)
Breaker broke dry (without fouling):
Breaker won the game: 82 (14%)
Breaker lost the game: 142 (24%)
Therefore, whereas the breaker won 50% (298) of all 592 games,
He won 65% (204 of 315) of the games in which he made at least one ball on the break and did not foul.
He won 23% (12 of 53) of the games in which he fouled on the break.
He won 37% (82 of 224) of the games in which he broke dry but did not foul.
He won 34% (94 of 277) of the games in which he either fouled on the break or broke dry without fouling
If the breaker only won 50% of the games, that to me is an even-steven number, not a leaning number.
The break shot in any game, adds to any player's first shot in the game, otherwise folks would be saying, "I won the game, it's your break". fat chance.
They put the rack on the modified Spot location & the break shot boys still did a great job of making a ball on the break.
Joe Tucker wrote a book on Break Shots, then we wrote another one together. Did we sell 40,000 copies, so folks could learn about the Break Shot, nope. Folks just don't care to learn or practice.
Congrats to SVB for another win. He knows the win came from knowledge gained & skill from practice, not trickery.....
I'll determine this for you for the streamed matches of the just-concluded U.S. Open. But I'm taking a break from looking at the numbers today, so it'll be a day or two.
Cool, thanks! No rush at all, I'm just throwing out ideas. And also thanks a lot for the stats you've already done. Very useful and informative. Cheers.
That's one fine post, Ceebee!
Efren, the greatest defensive player I've ever seen, knows things that no one else knows. How does he know what he knows? Hard work and superior analysis! You could call his knowledge edge an unfair advantage, but that would be silly. Were the racks of nine ball, ten ball and one pocket that Efren won with superbly knowledgeable, almost other-worldly, defense tainted? No, they weren't because his hard work had added up to those victories.
It is similarly unfair to complain about how Shane applies his special knowledge. Shane has, through hard work and superior analysis, learned things about the break that no one else knows (possibly excepting Mike Dechaine, often named as America's second best breaker, and unquestionably America's hardest breaker on the radar gun). When interviewed, Shane spoke of how he changed his break speed and his breaking angle in ways that added up to success. That's how a champion applies specialized knowledge to win.
So many predicted that the new breaking rule would slow down the best breakers, and all of them have egg on their face around now. America's two best breakers each reached the final four.
Sorry to the detractors, but our US Open champion earned his win the hard way, with hard work and sustained excellence in his play, not because of any gimmick break.
My thought, from early in the tournament, was that the new rule made breaking skill more important, not less. This is because, if the wing ball goes easily, that serves to level the field, since you don't need to be a break genius to make a ball. With the 9 on the spot, that gives more of an advantage to the true break experts that can figure out how to make a ball consistently under these more difficult conditions.
I don't consider it being a "detractor" to argue that the excessive importance of the break is detrimental to pool as a spectator sport. Having said that, I fully agree that Shane and the other top finishers won with hard work and sustained excellence. If the game rules are such that the break is the most important thing, then if you want to win, you need to absolutely master the break. Kudos (and victories) to the players who have done that.
Sorry if I didn't clarify this, but to me, the detractors were those pros who demanded, and got, the break rule changed and reckoned that the break gurus would be slowed down by it. My bad here.
Couple of quick thoughts…
1. I think its funny that people are saying that 9 ball is a breaking contest. While it certainly helps you still have to shoot the rest of the balls in the rack.
2. Did you see the two jump shots that Shane made with shapes.. Fantastic
3. Did you see the bank on the 6 (I believe) across in the corner… wow… what a clutch shot….
4. Did you see the safety play by Shane (this was especially evident in the first match with Orcollo)…. It was world class…
Also….. I don't understand what people have against watching individuals string racks together.. I can't think of anything more fun than watching someone run 6 or 7 racks… That is exciting.. which is what 9 ball is all about.. If you don't like aggressive run out pool.. play one pocket.. That is why there are different games.
One thought on the break. I do agree with the point that was made by Niels… They should rack with a magic rack with the 9 on the spot.. This gives everyone the SAME starting rack….. I don't think that players should be able to manipulate the rack differently to their advantage…. Other than that.. lets watch some players run big packages… That is exciting…
1. I think its funny that people are saying that 9 ball is a breaking contest. While it certainly helps you still have to shoot the rest of the balls in the rack.
2. Did you see the two jump shots that Shane made with shapes.. Fantastic
3. Did you see the bank on the 6 (I believe) across in the corner… wow… what a clutch shot….
4. Did you see the safety play by Shane (this was especially evident in the first match with Orcollo)…. It was world class…
Also….. I don't understand what people have against watching individuals string racks together.. I can't think of anything more fun than watching someone run 6 or 7 racks… That is exciting.. which is what 9 ball is all about.. If you don't like aggressive run out pool.. play one pocket.. That is why there are different games.
One thought on the break. I do agree with the point that was made by Niels… They should rack with a magic rack with the 9 on the spot.. This gives everyone the SAME starting rack….. I don't think that players should be able to manipulate the rack differently to their advantage…. Other than that.. lets watch some players run big packages… That is exciting…
Just to add some context here. The reason I ended up watching the finals with a bunch of non-pool-junkies. I was playing with a friend, we're about B players. His sister and some friends showed up, some of them could run a ball or two but mostly "bangers". They watched in awe as I ran a 6-pack flawlessly, umm lol no that didn't happen, but they seemed interested in the game so I invited them to watch the finals.
I honestly think there's an audience out there for pool. This was a random group of 20-30ish year old people. The idea of watching the finals of the US 9-ball open was exciting, but the actual watching of it a little less so. I could definitely appreciate the skill and artistry going on -- the finals was amazing -- but for these other people the spectacle fell a little short of expectation.
We can either say, well, these people, they don't understand pool, who cares what they think. Which is a legitimate argument. But I think that somehow if the formula could be tweaked a bit, people like this would sit and watch pro pool matches. There's something to that too, I think.
I honestly am not trying to get into the politics or the Shane debate or whatever. Shane is amazing, and I'm a fan. I do think that the break is too important in 9-ball, and I was reminded of that this weekend.
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I"m just wondering… What was it about the break that made your friends uninterested in the final? This is a really good story that shows that pool just may not be for the every day person…. I don't think that is a bad thing… If someone couldn't enjoy two of the best rotation players in history playing at the top of their games.. they probably aren't going to enjoy watching pool.
One other thought… I don't think this means that pool is broken and needs to fixed as a lot of people on AZ seem to think… I just think it is what it is…..
You think its fun/cool/awesome to watch someone run the same pattern over and over?
Corey at the USBTC broke made the 1 in the side, shot the 2, 3, 4 and finally a 5 - 9 combo over and over (alt break) Do you feel this is a really cool to watch and going to get people interested in watching pool?
I think there should be rules against pattern racking yes…. But watching people run racks is fun to me.. I admit it… I certainly think that people would get more excited about break and runs then they would tight safety battles… I mean people don't tune in to much to watch Chess Tournaments… unless they are Chess Players..
One of my favorite TAR matches was watching Shane play Donnie… Great pool from two great players. I also enjoyed watching Shane play Scott Frost on the Bar table RYO (I believe). In that match I don't think anybody ran over 7?
I am not arguing this. I am saying watching players pattern rack, break the 1 in the side or the same wing ball over and over and running the same pattern is stupid and doing nothing to make the game interesting. This is whats wrong with 9 ball currently.
I actually bought and enjoyed watching the accu-stats stream. HOWEVER this was only because they had put in place ***THREE*** rules to stop the insanity.
People are unrealistic
http://www.pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_501600
The perception of how often a Pro wins a game without the other person shooting is higher than the reality.
http://www.pool-trax.net/Players/PlayerTrax.aspx?TraxTag=OP_501600
The perception of how often a Pro wins a game without the other person shooting is higher than the reality.