PRO ONE DVD: Answering Questions

dr dave is asking questions that i believe will lead to a better understanding of the system. pj is just trying to prove to everyone and most of all himself that hss the Einstein of Az. lou is a very unhappy person with a lot of hate inside! The rest just like stir shit up as long as someone else is also or they normally would sdfu.

we are all trying to move forward but it seems certain members need this system to fail! for some sick reason i will never understand :confused:
 
STICKBNDER:
i know for a fact that i dont need 23 different cut angles like the chart says.
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"Knowing for a fact" is not the same as "seems like it to me". The number of cut angles needed to pocket any ball at a given distance (with a given amount of pocket slop) is easy to figure out - it's not guesswork.

pj
chgo
 
As for respect, all those in this never ending pissing match about CTE or any aiming systems are being very disrespectful to this thread.

This thread was started for those that bought the DVD and had questions on how to use it to get their questions answered and not to have this never ending pissing match brought into it.

I think it is cool there are those so willing to help others learn it, and this is regardless of my personal opinon of "systems".

I say take this pissing match else where, it does not belong in this thread.
 
you will not win against pj! he has a couple opinions he always falls back on if you make a point! its a circle and a tactic he uses to debate! ignore him and force him into contributing in a positive way! trust me, he cant stay out of thread even if u put a gun to his head!
 
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duckie said:
As for respect, all those in this never ending pissing match about CTE or any aiming systems are being very disrespectful to this thread.

This thread was started for those that bought the DVD and had questions on how to use it to get their questions answered and not to have this never ending pissing match brought into it.

I think it is cool there are those so willing to help others learn it, and this is regardless of my personal opinon of "systems".

I say take this pissing match else where, it does not belong in this thread.
Click to expand...

tap, tap, tap
 
Neil:
as far as CTE, once again you have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe you might get a little credibility if you at least try and learn it from the DVD before you go saying what it is and isn't.
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Maybe you're unable to draw any conclusions from the info that's out here already, but that doesn't mean nobody can.

From what I've heard here about the contents of the DVD, there aren't any surprises. Where's the crow we were all supposed to be eating by now? Where's the blinding CTE light that was supposed to put all questions to rest? Predictions that the DVD would descend triumphantly from The Mount engraved on stone tablets seem to have been a little exaggerated.

I'm not ridiculing CTE itself, by the way - I'm parodying those who greet every question about it with "you have no credibility if you haven't bought the DVD and thoroughly learned the system". That has always been nonsense - and that's becoming more clear, not less, since the DVD has come out.

pj
chgo
 
duckie said:
As for respect, all those in this never ending pissing match about CTE or any aiming systems are being very disrespectful to this thread.

This thread was started for those that bought the DVD and had questions on how to use it to get their questions answered and not to have this never ending pissing match brought into it.

I think it is cool there are those so willing to help others learn it, and this is regardless of my personal opinon of "systems".

I say take this pissing match else where, it does not belong in this thread.
Click to expand...
I don't agree that we should try to restrict threads to what the original poster intended - that's not only impossible, but wrong. Threads should go where they lead.

But I've said enough for now, so I'll bow out of here until I've seen the DVD, and then comment on it in another thread.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Maybe you're unable to draw any conclusions from the info that's out here already, but that doesn't mean nobody can.

From what I've heard here about the contents of the DVD, there aren't any surprises. Where's the crow we were all supposed to be eating by now? Where's the blinding CTE light that was supposed to put all questions to rest? Predictions that the DVD would descend triumphantly from The Mount engraved on stone tablets seem to have been a little exaggerated.

I'm not ridiculing CTE itself, by the way - I'm parodying those who greet every question about it with "you have no credibility if you haven't bought the DVD and thoroughly learned the system". That has always been nonsense - and that's becoming more clear, not less, since the DVD has come out.

pj
chgo
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If you haven't seen the dvd, are you saying that the opinions of the majority are negative from some of the postings? Or are you saying that the circle you run with surprisingly, are not interested in learning the system because it's not exact in one form or another? This, of course is not a criticism of Cte, but a consensus of non-users that understand what's good for the general pool playing public...as you've heard... Just kidding.

It's a good thing the predictions didn't come to pass, because there'd be a few blind people walking around with feathers sticking out of their mouths. But that's just an opinion and not a knock on Cte, because you haven't seen the dvd... Just kidding.

So we can safely assume that if somebody looks at a dvd and can't get it in a week or so that the information is no good and the rest of the pool playing world should heed the warning. Even if the creator of the product gives a time frame of weeks to months, depending on the individual's talents and desires, to assimilate the information?...No kidding?

There's already been one review given that was business as usual. Let's get a drum roll going again and other posters can really put a nail in the coffin. My review will be introduced by being inserted in a thread entitled, "I'm going to post a review...no,wait...I mean I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself...Hey, Look at me!, I'm not sure, help me out, guys!, OK, I will!"... Just kidding.

A breath of fresh air would be to actually have somebody learn the system inside out and be able to run a rack with it. Then post a review, tear it a new a$$hole or say something good about it. I don't want to listen to the tired, old bull$hit from the same people that will post in the style I'm using in this particular post. Prejudiced, sarcastic, non-productive and hating with an agenda... I'm right and you're not. I still remember what you said to me and mine last time. Now it's my turn!...doesn't make sense. Let it go...I'm not kidding.

Try to learn the system if you want to carry on a dialogue. We, who use it, would like nothing better than to have a discussion and your help to answer the tough questions without being made to feel inadequate with the barbs. I, for one, look forward to your posts, but not filtering out all the crap you seem to enjoy subjecting to the recipients. None of us are innocent. I know you've had a sucker punch or two come your way. At times I see your response as valid. Let's take the :angry:down to:cool: before some of the haters get this thread pulled, too... I kid you not!

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
If you haven't seen the dvd, are you saying that the opinions of the majority are negative from some of the postings? Or are you saying that the circle you run with surprisingly, are not interested in learning the system because it's not exact in one form or another? This, of course is not a criticism of Cte, but a consensus of non-users that understand what's good for the general pool playing public...as you've heard... Just kidding.

It's a good thing the predictions didn't come to pass, because there'd be a few blind people walking around with feathers sticking out of their mouths. But that's just an opinion and not a knock on Cte, because you haven't seen the dvd... Just kidding.

So we can safely assume that if somebody looks at a dvd and can't get it in a week or so that the information is no good and the rest of the pool playing world should heed the warning. Even if the creator of the product gives a time frame of weeks to months, depending on the individual's talents and desires, to assimilate the information?...No kidding?

There's already been one review given that was business as usual. Let's get a drum roll going again and other posters can really put a nail in the coffin. My review will be introduced by being inserted in a thread entitled, "I'm going to post a review...no,wait...I mean I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself...Hey, Look at me!, I'm not sure, help me out, guys!, OK, I will!"... Just kidding.

A breath of fresh air would be to actually have somebody learn the system inside out and be able to run a rack with it. Then post a review, tear it a new a$$hole or say something good about it. I don't want to listen to the tired, old bull$hit from the same people that will post in the style I'm using in this particular post. Prejudiced, sarcastic, non-productive and hating with an agenda... I'm right and you're not. I still remember what you said to me and mine last time. Now it's my turn!...doesn't make sense. Let it go...I'm not kidding.

Try to learn the system if you want to carry on a dialogue. We, who use it, would like nothing better than to have a discussion and your help to answer the tough questions without being made to feel inadequate with the barbs. I, for one, look forward to your posts, but not filtering out all the crap you seem to enjoy subjecting to the recipients. None of us are innocent. I know you've had a sucker punch or two come your way. At times I see your response as valid. Let's take the :angry:down to:cool: before some of the haters get this thread pulled, too... I kid you not!

Best,
Mike
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In keeping with the tone of your post, I will refrain from using my large fonts and blue colored test. :wink: (You don't know how badly I want to say "just kidding" in bold, blue text. lol)

You have a way with words Mike and you're right on all points including the last few sentences.
JoeyA
 
Mikjary said:
If you haven't seen the dvd, are you saying that the opinions of the majority are negative from some of the postings? Or are you saying that the circle you run with surprisingly, are not interested in learning the system because it's not exact in one form or another? This, of course is not a criticism of Cte, but a consensus of non-users that understand what's good for the general pool playing public...as you've heard... Just kidding.

It's a good thing the predictions didn't come to pass, because there'd be a few blind people walking around with feathers sticking out of their mouths. But that's just an opinion and not a knock on Cte, because you haven't seen the dvd... Just kidding.

So we can safely assume that if somebody looks at a dvd and can't get it in a week or so that the information is no good and the rest of the pool playing world should heed the warning. Even if the creator of the product gives a time frame of weeks to months, depending on the individual's talents and desires, to assimilate the information?...No kidding?

There's already been one review given that was business as usual. Let's get a drum roll going again and other posters can really put a nail in the coffin. My review will be introduced by being inserted in a thread entitled, "I'm going to post a review...no,wait...I mean I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself...Hey, Look at me!, I'm not sure, help me out, guys!, OK, I will!"... Just kidding.

A breath of fresh air would be to actually have somebody learn the system inside out and be able to run a rack with it. Then post a review, tear it a new a$$hole or say something good about it. I don't want to listen to the tired, old bull$hit from the same people that will post in the style I'm using in this particular post. Prejudiced, sarcastic, non-productive and hating with an agenda... I'm right and you're not. I still remember what you said to me and mine last time. Now it's my turn!...doesn't make sense. Let it go...I'm not kidding.

Try to learn the system if you want to carry on a dialogue. We, who use it, would like nothing better than to have a discussion and your help to answer the tough questions without being made to feel inadequate with the barbs. I, for one, look forward to your posts, but not filtering out all the crap you seem to enjoy subjecting to the recipients. None of us are innocent. I know you've had a sucker punch or two come your way. At times I see your response as valid. Let's take the :angry:down to:cool: before some of the haters get this thread pulled, too... I kid you not!

Best,
Mike
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WOW! Spot on post Mike!!
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You keep saying this, but I've never seen evidence of your "open mind" toward any of the questions raised about CTE. Practice what you preach.

pj
chgo
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Pj, you have alot of wrong preconceived notions of CTE, that is why I want you to have an open mind when viewing the DVD. You've been told over and over your wrong about some things but it doesn't seem to matter to you. Oh, and I tried to have a Q and A with you but it seems we don't speak the same language as you put it. I'd like to see you really understand CTE. I know you won't use it but you could then at least debate it knowledgeably.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Most CTE users have nothing to say but "works for me!". pj
chgo
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I believe this is because the math behind CTE is very complicated, and most don't look at it that way. However, it helps them make shots, so they use it.

When analyzing the math, don't look at the angle of the shot from a center CB to center OB to pocket perspective as you normally would. You have to look at the angle from a perspective of center CB to outside edge of the OB to the pocket. This angle will change with any movement of the CB, including just moving the CB closer or farther away from the OB, but still in the same line or angle. This explains why the same angle shot can require different sight lines if the CB is moved closer or farther away.

I have not had the time to hammer out all the details of the math yet, and would welcome any assistance from Dr. Dave. I think the angle from center CB to outside OB edge will need to be factored by the number of diamonds from the ball, but I am not sure of this yet. The angle only changes by about 5-6 degrees on an 8 foot table, but is very significant for the change in sight lines. Figuring this out will help to figure out what shots need what sight lines and pivots instead of just going by experience.
 
mantis99 said:
... When analyzing the math, don't look at the angle of the shot from a center CB to center OB to pocket perspective as you normally would. ...
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The normal definition of the cut angle needed for a shot is the acute angle between these two lines: (1) the line through the center of the CB and the center of the ghost ball and (2) the line through the center of the ghost ball (and object ball) to the center of the pocket opening.
 
Ohhh my! You said the "G" word. Flogging will continue until moral improves.

Nick

AtLarge said:
The normal definition of the cut angle needed for a shot is the acute angle between these two lines: (1) the line through the center of the CB and the center of the ghost ball and (2) the line through the center of the ghost ball (and object ball) to the center of the pocket opening.
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The more I think of this, the more sense it makes. Think of a 10 degree shot (not necessarily using CTE). If I shoot it from 5 diamonds away, the angle I will have to use to make the cb hit the correct contact point on the ob needed to make the shot will be very small. However, the same 10 degree shot played with the cb 1" from the ob will require a much greater angle from cb to ob to make the shot. Given the fact that an angle of CTE will coorelate with a distance from the ob, and that each sight line and its corresponding pivot will account for a certain degree of adjustment from the center of the cb to the center of the ob at a given distance, we should be able to establish ranges for each sight line and pivot at given distances (probably corresponding to the number of diamonds away we are). This would add significant value to the system as it would take away the guessing game of what sight line and pivot to use for any given shot.
 
AtLarge said:
The normal definition of the cut angle needed for a shot is the acute angle between these two lines: (1) the line through the center of the CB and the center of the ghost ball and (2) the line through the center of the ghost ball (and object ball) to the center of the pocket opening.
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I wasn't referring to the angle needed to make a shot, but the angle of the shot itself. Questions have been previously raised as to how CTE could work when the same angle shot with the cb moved back from one position to another would result in different angles towards the pocket with the same pivot. The point being made was that the sight lines change as the CTE or center cb to center of ghost ball would change. Also, that we should be able to establish ranges for each pivot and sight line based on either of those angles. Because the center CB to the center ghost ball angle is larger, it may actually be easier to use. If you do the math, the contact point for each sight line and pivot will change with each change in distance from the CB to the OB. The system works because each sight line and pivot will put you at the correct contact point for a certain range of shots at each distance away from the OB. The sight lines and pivots in the DVD cover all the ranges you could encounter. I have not had time to lay the math out, but it is easier to see when you look at it this way.
 
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You also have to understand that the amount of adjustment one makes to get into a sight line with the ob 5 diamonds away from the cb is different from the amount they will make to get the same sight line that is 2 diamonds away because the ob will appear smaller in size at a further distance. This adds to the variability of the sight lines.
 
Of course the question also comes up regarding what will happen at the end of one range, and the beginning of another. Won't that throw off the accuracy in that portion of the range. For example, if a shot requires a left pivot with sight line to spot A from 30-45 degrees (completely hypothetical numbers), but a left pivot with sight line B from 45-60 degrees, how accurate can we be at the 43,44,45,and 46 degree angle shots? After using the system the past few days, not only do I think that all angles will be covered by the available sight lines and pivots, I suspect there will be some overlap in the available ranges. Thus, instead of a left pivot with sight line A covering 30-45 degrees, I suspect it will cover 30-48 degrees, while a left pivot with sight line B will cover shots from 43-60 degrees, allowing certain shots to be made by more than one pivot and sight line. Of course pocket size will affect the amount of actual variation available here for the shot to be made.
 
mantis99 said:
I wasn't referring to the angle needed to make a shot, but the angle of the shot itself. ...
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Yes, I think I understand what you are talking about relative to CTE. All I was trying to do in post #513 was to make sure people didn't read what you said about the "angle of the shot" in post #512 to be the normal definition of cut angle.

The cut angle is just the number of degrees the OB is knocked off the initial line of travel (prior to the collision) of the CB.
 
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