Pro Players Aversion to Using Inside Spin

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Get in english" is often inside. Some like to use it to make the pocket effectively larger.

I think using inside follow on a ball on the side rail to go three cushions around the table used to be far more popular than today when players tend to use more outside draw. I wonder if it was harder to keep the draw in the old days. The follow shot would have been mandatory with the big cue ball.
To me inside with follow, medium/firm speed seems like the most reliable way to make short, slightly angled shots down the rail, especially when the pockets are big.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
It's funny you say that, I saw a segment with trump and lisowski, doing a Q and A at last years UK championships. And thay said almost the same phrase. Thay called it helping side.
I think when Buddy used that term it was about always using a bit to counter act the skid.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
"Get in english" is often inside. Some like to use it to make the pocket effectively larger.

I think using inside follow on a ball on the side rail to go three cushions around the table used to be far more popular than today when players tend to use more outside draw. I wonder if it was harder to keep the draw in the old days. The follow shot would have been mandatory with the big cue ball.
Watching matches I see a lot players appear to be hitting a little inside when drawing down the rail, I assume to as you say, make the pocket bigger.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I haven't noticed that. Do you have an example shot or two?
Just took a quick look, enough to make me realize that finding that will be tough. I'll get back when I see it again.

Does it surprise you that someone with say a 10 degree angle down the rail would use a little low inside? I was taught years ago that it was the way to cinch a ball. If the ob is spinning towards the pocket off the facing there is less chance it's going to rattle.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Watching the Matchroom Premier League 9-Ball alot this past week on YouTube, I’ve noticed virtually all the players usually always choose the positioning option of utilizing outside spin going 2 cushions as opposed to inside spin going 1 cushion.

I’m thinking that has a lot to do with their nearly always playing their pro tournament matches on newly installed Simonis cloth, and that inside (reverse spin coming in to a cushion) does not “grab” consistently on new cloth the way it does on worn cloth.

Just curious, I wonder if they change their game and utilize more inside spin for more simple cue ball positioning when playing on more broken in cloth, or if they always prefer using outside spin regardless of the cloth condition?

Feeling comfortable with using inside spin can really open up many positioning pattern options in all games, especially rotation games, but it seems many players including pro players still choose outside spin when they have a choice between using one the other for positioning on a most shots.
Around 20 years ago there was a pool room in my town where some of the pros would show up to gamble, had to do with a tournament going on at one the casinos.

I remember Parica on a table by himself shooting a shot where he probably had a 20 degree angle at a ball real close to the rail sending it down into the corner. He was hitting it with low inside and drawing enough that it would go 3 rails back out to the center of the table. When I hit that shot, it goes laterally to the other cushion. This was a well used pool room, not much for new tables, rails or cloth. He had a stroke.

Jose did not seem afraid of inside.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Does it surprise you that someone with say a 10 degree angle down the rail would use a little low inside? I was taught years ago that it was the way to cinch a ball. If the ob is spinning towards the pocket off the facing there is less chance it's going to rattle.
I never play a shot like that with inside. If I'm going to use any sidespin at all it will be outside. I think inside on a 10-degree cut is a good way to increase the chances of a skid.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I never play a shot like that with inside. If I'm going to use any sidespin at all it will be outside. I think inside on a 10-degree cut is a good way to increase the chances of a skid.
You could be right about that. But does a ball skid if you already thrown it a bit in that direction?
 

Bob Jewett

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You could be right about that. But does a ball skid if you already thrown it a bit in that direction?
Yes. Kicks are in the direction of the rubbing of the surface of the cue ball across the object ball. A 10-degree cut is unlikely to have a kick unless you use inside (or a great deal of outside).
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Does it surprise you that someone with say a 10 degree angle down the rail would use a little low inside? I was taught years ago that it was the way to cinch a ball. If the ob is spinning towards the pocket off the facing there is less chance it's going to rattle.
It doesn't surprise me - I've heard about it a lot. But I'm not convinced it really matters - I've tried shooting the CB from along the rail with various speeds, spins and pocket entry points, and couldn't find much difference in outcome. Maybe I need deeper shelves...

pj
chgo
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes. Kicks are in the direction of the rubbing of the surface of the cue ball across the object ball. A 10-degree cut is unlikely to have a kick unless you use inside (or a great deal of outside).
Guess I always looked at skids being caused by the balls clinging together, which in mind would be somewhat mitigated by a spinning cue ball. And the spiining would cause the throw on the object ball.

On the other hand, if we played straight pool you'd have to give me 100 in a race to 105 so there's that.
 

dendweller

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
It doesn't surprise me - I've heard about it a lot. But I'm not convinced it really matters - I've tried shooting the CB from along the rail with various speeds, spins and pocket entry points, and couldn't find much difference in outcome. Maybe I need deeper shelves...

pj
chgo
My experience is, that a ball on the rail( I mean contacting the rail) at the second diamond and I have a 30 degree angle I have no chance with outside. With inside, it's not a difficult shot. Maybe I just suck at outside though.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
My experience is, that a ball on the rail( I mean contacting the rail) at the second diamond and I have a 30 degree angle I have no chance with outside. With inside, it's not a difficult shot. Maybe I just suck at outside though.
ye playing balls on rails with a little rolling inside makes em feel unmissable. really increases your room for error.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My experience is, that a ball on the rail( I mean contacting the rail) at the second diamond and I have a 30 degree angle I have no chance with outside. With inside, it's not a difficult shot. Maybe I just suck at outside though.
ye playing balls on rails with a little rolling inside makes em feel unmissable. really increases your room for error.
Seems inside does widen the margins. Outside is doable though - even maximum outside, if you work out the aim/look of the shot.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Pros can do whatever the hell they want with the ball and certainly don't have 'an aversion' to inside imo. It's just that the 2 rail path gives them better speed control and ability to hold the ball on that side of a fast table while still putting a solid stroke on the ball and they generally choose a CB path that gives them more room for error in terms of speed control, which is often the case for a CB traveling on a diagonal vs str8 up and down.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
One reason (the one that makes most sense to me) is that with inside the CB gets two shots at the OB, one going into the rail and one on the rebound.

pj
chgo
Ye pretty sure Dr. Dave has a vid on this and he has slow mo's of ball first, simultaneous, and rail first. With the inside it is actually surprising how much of that rail you can get first so the 'just make it' range is quite wide played that way. CB reactions and position will differ tho.
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another point to ponder why inside English is more difficult could be because outside English cancels out throw and inside English dramatically increases throw
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Another point to ponder why inside English is more difficult could be because outside English cancels out throw and inside English dramatically increases throw
Esp at the lower speeds you'd use to hold a ball. Def a tougher shot than just hitting a bit firmer and pulling it around using 2 rails as 'brakes' to get to the same/similar spot.
 
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