Pro Players Aversion to Using Inside Spin

[ChrisinNC]

Watching the Matchroom Premier League 9-Ball alot this past week on YouTube, I’ve noticed virtually all the players usually always choose the positioning option of utilizing outside spin going 2 cushions as opposed to inside spin going 1 cushion.

I’m thinking that has a lot to do with their nearly always playing their pro tournament matches on newly installed Simonis cloth, and that inside (reverse spin coming in to a cushion) does not “grab” consistently on new cloth the way it does on worn cloth.

Just curious, I wonder if they change their game and utilize more inside spin for more simple cue ball positioning when playing on more broken in cloth, or if they always prefer using outside spin regardless of the cloth condition?

Feeling comfortable with using inside spin can really open up many positioning pattern options in all games, especially rotation games, but it seems many players including pro players still choose outside spin when they have a choice between using one the other for positioning on a most shots.

 

[Z-Nole]

you’re kidding, right Chris? Everyone knows the only way to play is with a touch of inside on ALL shots. Hell, the way I make a left turn is by making three right turns.

I don’t know that I’ve notice a difference in the way spin grabs on new cloth be it inside or outside. It seems to slide equally. But then again I’m not very good.

Btw- I spent this past week in Pinehurst and kept trying to swing by your place but just couldn’t sober up long enough. Be back next month and I think I will have time, maybe you can show me what you’re talking about.

 

[Zerksies]

Lots of things can happen with inside spin. You don’t hit the ball right and the spin don’t take.

I’ve always found it harder to aim with inside spin and pocket the ball too. I’ve found that the least used spin (low inside) is also the most difficult and you need to hit it precisely to work. Hence I’ve been practicing that shot because I’m working on extreme precision.

Pro use things with high probability of a good outcome. Two rails is going to be easier to control the speed then just one. You have a bigger margin of error with two rail versus one

 

[skiergd011013]

its true. In one of allison fishers livestreams with gerda, allison called gerda weird because she is the only pro she knows that likes inside spin. Im no pro, but ive been playing a long time and am good with English and position. By far, my least favorite is inside english. I can do it, but if i can find another option to avoid it, I will. Id rather draw the piss out of the cueball than attempt extreme inside.

 

[ChrisinNC]

its true. In one of allison fishers livestreams with gerda, allison called gerda weird because she is the only pro she knows that likes inside spin. Im no pro, but ive been playing a long time and am good with English and position. By far, my least favorite is inside english. I can do it, but if i can find another option to avoid it, I will. Id rather draw the piss out of the cueball than attempt extreme inside.

When you need to kill the cue ball on a cut shot to hold position for shape on the next ball on the same end of the table (as opposed to going all the way down the table and back) inside spin can really come in handy if you can use it and feel confident in making your shot. Bottom inside even moreso.

 

[straightline]

The cinch way to use inside is BHE. Except nowadays with LD CFS, BHE (ooh 3 acros in a row!) may not be as reliable. I don't know. I still go to town with maple shafts.

 

[dendweller]

I don’t know that I’ve notice a difference in the way spin grabs on new cloth be it inside or outside.

I put new cloth on a couple years ago, thought I'd done something wrong. Ball wouldn't grab off the rail.

Saw a vid the terminator did on that very subject a while after that.

 

[sjm]

I think there's much truth in the original post. On new cloth and slick rails, there's a greater danger that the inside english won't grab as well, and I agree that some of the patterns chosen by the pros reflect it. The commentators have, similarly, taken note on some of the inside english shots, expressing concern over whether the english will take sufficiently when the cue ball hits the rail.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't believe there's any difference in how spin "grabs" based on the direction of spin.

pj
chgo

 

[straightline]

I think it depends on the angle of entry and the intent of the spin. Running english should or might appear to have more traction.

 

[JusticeNJ]

I’m thinking that has a lot to do with their nearly always playing their pro tournament matches on newly installed Simonis cloth, and that inside (reverse spin coming in to a cushion) does not “grab” consistently on new cloth the way it does on worn cloth.

I think it's this too.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I don't believe there's any difference in how spin "grabs" based on the direction of spin.

pj
chgo

Not for pros, but my issue using Inside is speed control. I usually hit it too soft. Need more practice.

 

[dendweller]

I put new cloth on a couple years ago, thought I'd done something wrong. Ball wouldn't grab off the rail.

Saw a vid the terminator did on that very subject a while after that.

 

[Cornerman]

Maybe it’s just a perception or definition of “aversion.” If anything, pros use more inside English than they did 30 years ago by a lot. But the use of inside spin has never been a 50/50 idea. If you take the standard shots of rotation (like in Bert Kinister’s 60-minute workout) the ones you see over and over and over, there are much more outside english shots than inside english shots for standard pattern play.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Maybe it’s just a perception or definition of “aversion.” If anything, pros use more inside English than they did 30 years ago by a lot. But the use of inside spin has never been a 50/50 idea. If you take the standard shots of rotation (like in Bert Kinister’s 60-minute workout) the ones you see over and over and over, there are much more outside english shots than inside english shots for standard pattern play.

To clarify, depending on the angle the cue ball enters the cushion, inside spin or english can still be running spin or English going into a cushion, in which case there’s not a huge difference between newly installed vs worn in cloth in regards to how the cue ball reacts off the cushion with that running spin.

It’s only when you are trying to significantly reverse the natural rebound angle of the cue ball going into a cushion, which also significantly decreases the pace of the cue ball coming off that cushion, that the cue ball generally will just not take off the cushion on newly installed cloth. These are the shots I just rarely see the pro players playing on new cloth.

 

[Tennesseejoe]

Inside spin is less accurate for most players because they do no use it often...end of story.

 

[pt109]

As a right-hander, I prefer right hand spin…my feeling is that using back hand english, I’m shooting closer to my center, therefore my strength.
With inside, I trained myself to use it a lot, but for my life, I’d rather cut a ball to the left with right english.
I‘ve shot with LD shafts a bit, won a few tournaments, but I hate using slow inside english with them, I find the aiming difficult.

I’ve shot with BHE all my life, never had a name for it until Patrick Johnson told me….thanx, PJ.

 

[mikemosconi]

I believe that many confuse the choice of spin used to get position on the next ball with the much bigger consideration that the more knowledgeable players choose the spin that allows the CB to travel ALONG the next position path as opposed to having the CB travel down a much more narrow position path.

Many times the outside spin will allow for traveling along a position zone lane and permit a greater range of acceptable final position requiring less precision on your speed control. inside spin often requires more precise speed control to stay in line for the next position zone.

 

[dquarasr]

I can very reliably adjust to cancel throw when using outside spin.

When using inside spin I have a tendency to over cut (too thin).

I suspect it’s my perception and aiming.

If outside spin thins a shot, i would expect that inside spin thickens a shot but that’s not what seems to happen; i get thinner, not thicker. So I imagine it’s my perception. Thoughts?

I suppose it’s because as mentioned above I simply have shot way more outside than inside and I haven’t learned to aim it, but I’d love to understand the physics.

 

[tomatoshooter]

The cinch way to use inside is BHE. Except nowadays with LD CFS, BHE (ooh 3 acros in a row!) may not be as reliable. I don't know. I still go to town with maple shafts.

I do that when shooting balls near the long rail into the corner from an angle, to send the cue ball 3 rails back uptable. I'm hitting a little harder and it cancels the deflection pretty well. On most other shots, I use FHE.

If outside spin thins a shot, i would expect that inside spin thickens a shot but that’s not what seems to happen; i get thinner, not thicker. So I imagine it’s my perception. Thoughts?

It seems to vary with the shot for me. With inside spin, the deflection should thin the shot, the swerve of the cue ball and the throw thicken the shot. At different speeds, distances, and angles, the varying factors seem to have different levels of effectiveness.