It actually turned out to be a lot bigger then I expected, Mike. I'm sure a lot more have played in local leagues, I guess you just dont hear about that side of it that much.oldman58 said:List didn't seem to be too big did it Heath?
Pro Players that used to shoot in Amatuer Leagues before achieving Pro Status.
- Thread starter Icon of Sin
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I think it's safe to say he is a pro - he was ranked 27th by the IPT. He's a really nice guy. My team lost to his at the Masters in 2006, relegating us to 5th place. However, his team lost to another team from Raleigh in the finals. He was really crestfallen, as he knew it was his last chance to win the Masters since the APA was changing his status from amateur to professional. His team also finished second in 2005, losing to Ike's team.Neil said:
BJ Ussery didn't start in leagues, AFAIK, but he was in the APA. Brandon Ashcraft was in the APA (he played on Kirkwood's Masters team in 2005), and didn't Brandon Shuff start in the APA as well?
-djb
You will find that very, very few "Pro Players" came from the league systems.
Leagues are primarily a social organization. Most of your pro players do not play socially. They play for money--bottom line. Also, with the handicapping, they do no support/promote the development/improvment of the player. To get better, you must get in the mix with better players and play EVEN!
Those that were in the leagues were usually there to get as much $$$ as possible before they got barred from playing anymore--it happened to several of the aforementioned players.
Just my $0.02
Leagues are primarily a social organization. Most of your pro players do not play socially. They play for money--bottom line. Also, with the handicapping, they do no support/promote the development/improvment of the player. To get better, you must get in the mix with better players and play EVEN!
Those that were in the leagues were usually there to get as much $$$ as possible before they got barred from playing anymore--it happened to several of the aforementioned players.
Just my $0.02
CrownCityCorey said:
You know, I used to think this but I'm not so sure anymore. I think it depends on the league and who it attracts. In New York City, we have a few options and lots of players take advantage of that. The most notable would be Team 9-ball which allows professionals to play. The list of notables over the years include George "Ginky" SanSoucci, Tony Robles, Steve Lipsky, Mika Immonen, Kim Shaw, Tiffany Nelson, Jennifer Barretta, Liz Ford (there are plenty others).
Last year, I had forum member Steve Lipsky as a teammate and there is NOTHING more rewarding than having a player of that caliber to watch and be watched by. Everything from shot-selection to mental approach was discussed and the resulting lessons are applicable to any competitive environment. When Ginky played in the league, he was an amazing and passionate coach and always fielded a competitve and smart team.
I agree with you. Most leagues are NOT the breeding ground for professional players. (Excuse me, this is tough to word) Professional caliber play comes out of necessity. That is to say, a player learns to run 100 balls because losing is a constant threat. Most leagues do not offer enough of a threat to players either because caliber of play isn't there OR the resulting negative outcome (losing an important league match) isn't a sufficient motivational force. However, I do think it is possible to create a league that would be a good breeding ground but I think you would need the participation of your area's very best players and the reward for winning (fame, fortune, validation) must be heavily sought.
In sum, it's difficult for any player to point to any single reason as to why they are who they are. In our league in New York, there has been a recent surge of improvement. There are more new A players and Open players now than in a long time and that's in spite of a billiard industry that has been suffering and I expect to see more in the near future. The league has quite a few Cs and Bs that exhibit a lot of talent. I cannot credit the league alone for their success but it's difficult to ignore its influence.
oldman58
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Icon of Sin said:
Also maybe in their list of things done some pro's may not list the Leagues that they played in because they had too many other things to talk about. And availability. They may have grown up in areas where there were no leagues and by the time they got where they are they were too good for them and had no reason to join them. A lot start to tune their game as kids or very young where leagues won't have them yet. By the time they are 18 to 21 they have already been to Vegas and a host of other city's to compete so why play in a league that the ultimate goal is to go to Vegas or split a few thousand dollars with a whole team?????????? I'm sure there were some that played in say APA but not a whole lot....
