Pro Pocket Size TOO Small for 9 Ball

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Remove the 4'' and make em all 4 1/4'' for pro play.
Return aggressive rotation play back to it's roots.
Letting European minds make the pockets this small hurts the game/sport and the audience.
Seeing Gorst choose a safety, when he can cut a ball in is SAD.
The women pros NEVER use 4'' pockets.
For good reason.
 
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Island Drive said:
Remove the 4'' and make em all 1/4'' for pro play.
Return aggressive rotation play back to it's roots.
Letting European minds make the pockets this small hurts the game/sport and the audience.
Seeing Gorst choose a safety, when he can cut a ball in is SAD.
The women pros NEVER use 4'' pockets.
For good reason.
Click to expand...
You do mean '4&1/4' correct? On Diamonds 4.5 is plenty snug but still allows pocket cheating. I agree, pro pockets are changing it for the worse.
 
Island Drive said:
Remove the 4'' and make em all 1/4'' for pro play.
Return aggressive rotation play back to it's roots.
Letting European minds make the pockets this small hurts the game/sport and the audience.
Seeing Gorst choose a safety, when he can cut a ball in is SAD.
The women pros NEVER use 4'' pockets.
For good reason.
Click to expand...
I agree. Playing on a table with 4 inch isn't fun.
 
The new rules and table conditions have ruined pool as a spectator sport.

For me, it is too sterile and boring.

The players are robotic and the table conditions and rules make them more comfortable playing safeties than going for difficult shots.

I prefer watching fast and loose playing on old school tables.

They may miss more but they keep you awake.
 
The reason that the runout has become so difficult is the break rule. For three full WNT seasons, nine on the spot with a narrow break box has ended the days of players being able to play any kind of shape for the first shot after the break. Yes, they can still make the one in the side with cut break, but that is rarely enough to string many racks.

The 4 inch pockets are not the main reason there are fewer runout chances, and players have become more conservative in their play. Despite their suggestion that 9ball is the better game, Matchroom has made 9ball more like 10ball by stifling some of the offense and robbing the game of, what I believe, is a more fan-friendly pace of play.
 
I have to disagree, the small pockets + modern break rules are what makes pro rotation pool watchable.

WIthout this, it would be a constant break and run fest (like men's pro 8 ball tends to be).
 
sjm said:
The reason that the runout has become so difficult is the break rule. For three full WNT seasons, nine on the spot with a narrow break box has ended the days of players being able to play any kind of shape for the first shot after the break. Yes, they can still make the one in the side with cut break, but that is rarely enough to string many racks.

The 4 inch pockets are not the main reason there are fewer runout chances, and players have become more conservative in their play. Despite their suggestion that 9ball is the better game, Matchroom has made 9ball more like 10ball by stifling some of the offense and robbing the game of, what I believe, is a more fan-friendly pace of play.
Click to expand...

I find that the game (as a spectator sport) is less fan friendly if you know the first person to make a ball has a 95% chance of winning the rack
 
i don't give a rats ass what the pro's decide to play on. pro pool is only exciting when you have exciting players, not boring ones.

what bothers me is all the average players immediately want to emulate the pros and start demanding their equipment matches it.
ruins even going to the pool room.
 
Lowell said:
I have to disagree, the small pockets + modern break rules are what makes pro rotation pool watchable.

WIthout this, it would be a constant break and run fest (like men's pro 8 ball tends to be).
Click to expand...
When player's have to duck fairly mundane shots because the pockets too small is not fun to watch. It becomes 'cinch' pool because there's so little room to cheat the pocket. To me the 'snookerization' of pool is not good.
 
maha said:
i don't give a rats ass what the pro's decide to play on. pro pool is only exciting when you have exciting players, not boring ones.

what bothers me is all the average players immediately want to emulate the pros and start demanding their equipment matches it.
ruins even going to the pool room.
Click to expand...
why do you worry about what others choose to play with? how does that ruin going to the pool hall? isn't people's buying cues/gloves/shafts/tips/etc good for the game?
 
Lowell said:
I find that the game (as a spectator sport) is less fan friendly if you know the first person to make a ball has a 95% chance of winning the rack
Click to expand...
While your statement is true, this was never the case. In the 2022 WNT season, prior to the tightening of the pockets, the runouts were easier, but far from easy. in fact, in that year, neither of the two best breakers (SVB and Shaw) won a WNT. title.

Yes, in the days of 4 1/2” pockets, one ball racked on the spot, and no break box, 9ball had become too much of a breaking contest, but that was done by around 2018.
 
I'm not sure 4.5" pockets would bring the excitement up more or not, but would definitely make it easier to pocket a ball for the top pros. Pool today is more of a chess match than it ever has been. The outlaws we grew up watching had more freedom to show their personalities than the sponsor world would allow today, not to mention they came up hustling to put food on the table. A different world today brings a different player. Another problem is that there are around 4 pros that are a step above all the rest. If they weren't in the field, you would see a lot more action and different winners all year. I wouldn't want those 4 not playing in the tournaments, but they pretty much stink it up for all the rest. All but 1 of the 4 are also not US-born, which I think plays into it as well. I'm not knocking that fact, but I do think it doesn't help to drive up interest at home in the US. Those 4 in my mind are Filler, Gorst, Shaw, & SVB. I do feel Shaw brings a lot of excitement to his matches, and especially to the Mosconi Cup arena. I agree that European influence has changed the sport, in some positive ways and in some negative ways. We need more support in the US for the sport to control the direction of it, and that will take promotion at all levels, including having a group of US-dominant players today instead of European.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I think he means the table specs, not individual players equipment.
Click to expand...

To me pool halls definitely should not go to 4” pockets or even close. Those tables are playable on the WNT because (a) you have elite players playing; and (b) the balls and cloth are brand new. If you got Filler and Gorst to play on 4” pockets at your local pool hall with cloth with 6 months of play and dirty balls, the game would look like one pocket. I see some balls slide in on the WNT that wouldn’t go on the 4.5” Diamonds I play on with old cloth and balls.
 
to be fair the pro tour is more watchable for a die hard pool fan as he sees the best of the best position and shot making.

but for the masses it is less exciting at least from my point of view. ask them, not the die hard pro circuit pool watchers.

ask the viewers if it was more fun watching miz, earl, fats, hall, mike, keith, cole, efren, busti, etc. at every tournament or on tv during their heydays.

or watching filler, svb, gorst, kaci etc, all taking twice or more as long and showing little emotion.
 
garczar said:
When player's have to duck fairly mundane shots because the pockets too small is not fun to watch. It becomes 'cinch' pool because there's so little room to cheat the pocket. To me the 'snookerization' of pool is not good.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with making the pockets extremely small (like 3.9 inches) but I wouldn't want them to go back to say, 5 inches either.

4 1/8 seems to be a sweet spot for pros, but I do think the Predator side pockets are too harsh.

Trucker1989 said:
I'm not sure 4.5" pockets would bring the excitement up more or not, but would definitely make it easier to pocket a ball for the top pros. Pool today is more of a chess match than it ever has been. The outlaws we grew up watching had more freedom to show their personalities than the sponsor world would allow today, not to mention they came up hustling to put food on the table. A different world today brings a different player. Another problem is that there are around 4 pros that are a step above all the rest. If they weren't in the field, you would see a lot more action and different winners all year. I wouldn't want those 4 not playing in the tournaments, but they pretty much stink it up for all the rest. All but 1 of the 4 are also not US-born, which I think plays into it as well. I'm not knocking that fact, but I do think it doesn't help to drive up interest at home in the US. Those 4 in my mind are Filler, Gorst, Shaw, & SVB. I do feel Shaw brings a lot of excitement to his matches, and especially to the Mosconi Cup arena. I agree that European influence has changed the sport, in some positive ways and in some negative ways. We need more support in the US for the sport to control the direction of it, and that will take promotion at all levels, including having a group of US-dominant players today instead of European.
Click to expand...

Ko Ping Chung can hang with the 4 you mentioned
 
maha said:
to be fair the pro tour is more watchable for a die hard pool fan as he sees the best of the best position and shot making.

but for the masses it is less exciting at least from my point of view. ask them, not the die hard pro circuit pool watchers.

ask the viewers if it was more fun watching miz, earl, fats, hall, mike, keith, cole, efren, busti, etc. at every tournament or on tv during their heydays.

or watching filler, svb, gorst, kaci etc, all taking twice or more as long and showing little emotion.
Click to expand...
watching robots play cinch pool is not that enjoyable. the CamelPro days was the best, lots of characters AND runouts.
 
sjm said:
The reason that the runout has become so difficult is the break rule. For three full WNT seasons, nine on the spot with a narrow break box has ended the days of players being able to play any kind of shape for the first shot after the break. Yes, they can still make the one in the side with cut break, but that is rarely enough to string many racks.

The 4 inch pockets are not the main reason there are fewer runout chances, and players have become more conservative in their play. Despite their suggestion that 9ball is the better game, Matchroom has made 9ball more like 10ball by stifling some of the offense and robbing the game of, what I believe, is a more fan-friendly pace of play.
Click to expand...
I disagree....
 
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