Pro Taper thoughts

twal

"W"
Silver Member
Assuming one were two identical pieces of wood, joint, ferrule, tip, tip diameter, etc...
Regular maple shaft.

If we only changed the taper on these two shafts...
Shaft 1 would have a 10 to 12 inch pro taper.
Shaft 2 would have a 16 to 19 inch pro taper.

I assume the longer taper shaft would have a slightly less feel but should also flex more and thus creating less CB squirt.

Does anyone agree with me?
 
Less feel: can't answer, that is subjective
Flex more: most likely
Less squirt: I don't think there is much correlation between flex and squirt, at least what changes greater than 12 inches from the tip can influence. The experts will be here shortly though.
 
I used to paint for a living, and...

Please define pro-taper first ?
I bet you get it wrong.

A pro taper would be someone who is paid for his taping expertise.

(How much were you willing to bet on that one, BTW?)

Ken
 
A pro taper would be someone who is paid for his taping expertise.

(How much were you willing to bet on that one, BTW?)

Ken

I'll bet you wheatbucks.
Pro-taper is now synonymous to no taper.
A 16-19 no taper front would flex more and have more cue ball squirt to me. I don't care if the cue ball squirt argue that taper has no bearing in cue ball squirt.
I make shafts and have tested them over and over again. Different config and different taper.
A 1MM taper to the middle of the shaft would be too whippy for me.
A 2MM taper to the middle of the shaft would be good enough for quality shafts.
 
Last edited:
Yes, pro taper is no taper.

Also we are talking about shafts tha are between 11 and 13 millimeters at the tip.
 
I assume the longer taper shaft would have a slightly less feel but should also flex more and thus creating less CB squirt.

Does anyone agree with me?

Not me.

Freddie <~~~ are we still talking about flex with squirt???
 
Yes, pro taper is no taper.

Also we are talking about shafts tha are between 11 and 13 millimeters at the tip.

OK then, it will flex more and have more cue ball squirt.
And will be more prone to warping.

I refuse to make them.
Shafts should have 3 to 5 angles imo. It should be constantly getting thicker from the tip to the joint.
It makes it easier to "point" as well.
Like your index finger.
 
A 16-19 no taper front would flex more and have more cue ball squirt to me.

What does the "to me" in that quote mean?

I see a lot of "to me" or "in my opinion" attached to statements that are not matters of opinion on this forum. Baffles me.

It is an objectively measurable and provable fact that squirt doesn't depend on flex.

-Andrew
 
What does the "to me" in that quote mean?

I see a lot of "to me" or "in my opinion" attached to statements that are not matters of opinion on this forum. Baffles me.

It is an objectively measurable and provable fact that squirt doesn't depend on flex.

-Andrew

Thanks, but I don't agree with it.
 
OK then, it will flex more and have more cue ball squirt.
And will be more prone to warping.

I refuse to make them.
Shafts should have 3 to 5 angles imo. It should be constantly getting thicker from the tip to the joint.
It makes it easier to "point" as well.
Like your index finger.

That's my taper....I call it 'carom' or 'Euro' taper
My snooker and pool cues have it
 
That's the nice thing about facts. They don't depend on consensus.

-Andrew

And they don't consider how much spin you can impart with stiffer shaft compared to whippy shafts. So, the need for tip offset varies by shaft.
There's probably science about that too.
But, I don't care.
I won't build 16-19 "pro-taper" shafts anyway.
 
OK then, it will flex more and have more cue ball squirt.
And will be more prone to warping.

I refuse to make them.
Shafts should have 3 to 5 angles imo. It should be constantly getting thicker from the tip to the joint.
It makes it easier to "point" as well.
Like your index finger.

So, "bar cue" style then? I couldn't imagine playing with something that thick as my everyday cue.
 
So, "bar cue" style then? I couldn't imagine playing with something that thick as my everyday cue.

No.
Bar cues have one angle from tip to the bottom.
Shafts have compound tapers ( well, most anyway ).
Let's say the first 6-inches has a taper of .003 per inch, then the next 6" has .005" per inch, then the next 6" has .010" per inch and so on until it gets to the joint size.
 
Assuming one were two identical pieces of wood, joint, ferrule, tip, tip diameter, etc...
Regular maple shaft.

If we only changed the taper on these two shafts...
Shaft 1 would have a 10 to 12 inch pro taper.
Shaft 2 would have a 16 to 19 inch pro taper.

I assume the longer taper shaft would have a slightly less feel but should also flex more and thus creating less CB squirt.

Does anyone agree with me?
Shaft 1 would have a hit that most would describe as "harder" than shaft 2.
Shaft 2 would have more flex.
Shaft 2 most would say will make it easier to impart english and move the cue ball around.

As for squirt...it has been proven that the mass/weight in the last 5-6 inches or so (tip end) of the cue is what most influences the amount of squirt. The more mass/weight, the more squirt. This is why low deflection shafts have hollowed cores, lighter ferrules, etc. I personally feel that the stiffness of a cue is a very small factor as well, with stiffer cues squirting more, but to my knowledge this has not been proven or disproved by science. What has been proven is that the mass/weight in the tip end of the cue causes (at the very least) almost all of the squirt, so stiffness shouldn't even really be taken into consideration or given thought to when it comes to squirt because its impact is somewhere between minimal and non-existent.

As for feel...feel is so absolutely subjective that any other person's opinion about the quality of feel in a particular shaft/cue should be absolutely, totally and utterly meaningless to you. But between the two shafts above, the majority of people would feel that the stiffer/harder hitting cue (shaft 1) would have the better "feel" because most people tend to equate feel to the strength/amount/amplitude of vibration or jolt they feel in their hand/arm when the tip hits the cue ball. The bigger the jolt to your arm, the more the "feel".

I am in the minority by not seeing ("feeling") it that way. To me feel is the ability to discern even the most minute and subtle differences and nuances in the way the cue ball was struck (and some flex is likely a significant contributor to feel, maybe more so for me than the majority), and you rarely get good feel with very stiff/hard hitting cues IMO.

You can take a 58" piece of rebar and hit a cue ball with it and it will give a really stiff and hard hit, the most hand shock, but that just isn't feel to me, yet that is essentially what most people consider feel to be with pool cues. The hardest hitting cues of all would be those cheap aluminum cues from places like Walmart (not sure if they are still being made), but again, that just isn't feel in my book. All hand shock, no feel (ability to discern small differences in the way the cue ball was struck).

Jam a piece of rebar into a concrete wall, and then a tree, and you will be able to feel the difference in the hit, because there is a huge difference. But jam that piece of rebar into an oak tree, and then a pine tree, and then a cedar tree, and they are all going to feel the same (they will all feel like just a big jolt in the hand), even though they really are different due to the different densities of the trees. There would be just too much and too sharp of hand shock to be able to discern them. Same with cues IMO. Too stiff/hard hitting, and you can't feel subtle differences. On the flip side, a shaft that is too whippy loses feel for exactly the same reasons. You can't feel the very subtle differences when there is excessive flex and minimal hand shock feedback because everything just starts to feel like lots of flex.

And before anybody tries to argue feel with me, please refer back to the bolded line above.
 
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