Problem with Schmelke longer cue stick uniloc system

[cramh]

Hi,

Getting to few answers to my questions on the ‘ask the cuemaker’ section (because it is maybe somewhat difficult for a cuemaker to speak about another cuemaker, even if it was not what I was asking for), I post my questions here.

I play for years with Predator unilock cue sticks (one of them is the 2K2, the other one is the Ikon 2.5) and uniloc (of course) shafts (29” length 314.2 and Z2).

Because these cues are no long enough, I decided to order a custom longer cue at the Schmelke company. To get a 61” cue+stick, I ordered a 31” stick and two Pedator 30” shafts.

The reason why I ordered the Predator shafts also at Shmelke (275$, thus more expensive than at Seybert, for ex.) is that I live in Belgium and I wanted to avoid to many transport and custom fees; it would be the case if I order the material at two different companies.

Because I want be able to play, together with the Schmelke cue stick and my prior Predator shafts and, the reverse, to be able to play, together with my Ikon 2.5 and the longer 30” Predator shaft I get from Schmelke, I decided to choose uniloc joints, so that all my cues and shafts have the same joint and are thus interchageable.

What a big surprise to see that the collars of the two Schmelke 'Predator' shafts don’t fit with my predator cue sticks.

CLEARLY the diameter of the ‘Schmelke/Predator’ ‘314.2’ shafts is much larger than the diameter of the all the original shafts that I get. I have to insist on the fact that these two shafts are certified true Predator traditional 314.2 shafts (none the Predator fat shafts or whathever).

It is the first time in my life that I see a ‘Predator shaft’ that doesn’t fit with a predator stick! It is also the first time that I see a cue stick larger at the joint locus than all the pool cues you can find on the market. Thus, this cue is not only a custom cue for being longer (what I wanted) but also in other aspects.

Of course, this larger Schmelke stick fits (happily!) with their ‘own Predator’ shafts.

The guy from Shmelke (one of them is David, the other one is Kim) respond to me:

‘The reason the size and the collars are different is the shafts are made buy a predator partial shaft wich allows us to make custom cues with different collar and size specifications.’

Can anyone here say me if that is true? If it is, I don’t understand why they don’t say that their uniloc cues and ‘Predator’ shafts are uncompatible with real Predator products.

Another thing, the collar of the cue is damaged. The collar is not circular because there is a blow on its surface.
Pictures of the damaged collar here:

http://toutbox.fr/cramh/Divers/Cue+H...2,42594405.jpg
http://toutbox.fr/cramh/Divers/Cue+H...1,42594396.jpg

Hard for me to believe that the guy who prepared the shipping didn’t see that...

Anyone else have experienced such 'problems/questions' with Schmelke products?

PS: I must add that Kim and David are nice guys, that they are very reactive to my emails; the purpose of this tread is not at all to blame them, but just to see if other people got the same problems/questions.

Thanks,
Marc

 

[oldschool1478]

Sorry to hear about your problem.

I had Schmelke build a 62 inch cue for me, and it turned out great.

I am guessing they did not understand your need to match off the shelf Predator unilock
shafts, as you were ordering two with the cue.

I am sure if you return the cue and the two shafts with either micrometer measurements,
or one of your own shafts, they will be happy to match them up.

The damage was most likely done when packing, and may not have been noticed.
That should be cleaned up when the joint is turned down during the matching.

I would email them with a copy of this post and photos attached.

 

[GoldCrown]

Are talking about how the shaft and butt match up. The butt fits the pin but the diameters are different?
I'm in the process of ordering a Schmelke with a Uniloc so I can use existing Predator and OB UniLoc shafts with the butt. I am providing them with measurements of the shaft and butt joint ends that read about 21.41, 21.39, 21.40, 21.37. Did you mention you are going to use other shafts with the butt. I think there was an assumption and misunderstanding on their end.

Every UniLoc shaft I have does interchange with any UniLoc butt I have. Predator or custom.

As far as shipping goes. Yes everything should be inspected before being packed. I do have a cue on order. I requested it be packed in a rigid tube and then a cardboard shipping box.

Sorry to hear this however...Schmelke will make good. That is worth everything.

 

[RiverCity]

I had a similar situation with my first Schmelke order. Custom sneaky that I was planning on using a predator shaft on. Got the new cue, everything was great on it. Until I put a predator shaft on there. Standard joint diameter is around .850 give or take a couple thou. The Schmelke was about .880 if memory serves me correctly. When I called and asked, it was explained to me that to achieve certain weight/balance characteristics they vary the joint and butt diameters on over-length cues.

Considering the price I paid was affordable for me, I kept it to use as a break butt with a different shaft I already had. Then I went ahead and ordered another cue, this time giving full specs that I wanted (joint and butt diameters etc). Got the new cue, and was blown away. Extremely well crafted, great wood..... very happy.

To avoid stuff like this in the future, maybe we should voice the concern to them so that they might make a note of it on their webpage.

 

[GoldCrown]

To avoid stuff like this in the future, maybe we should voice the concern to them so that they might make a note of it on their webpage.

Good idea, I will be talking to Kim today or tomorrow as I'm prepared to order a 2nd PurpleHeart ...this one in Uni-Loc. (Oh Baby). I will suggest she makes the note available or does ask the customer if they plan to interchange shafts.

Last time I spoke to Kim she said I need to provide measurements to accommodate aftermarket UniLoc shafts. Otherwise the cue will be cut to their in-house standards.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I think in general, each cue maker will have their own joint diameter. Many are almost exactly the same, at about 0.845 inches. But some will be much larger, such as 0.870, and some slighly smaller, at about 0.835. So when you ask them to build a matching predator shaft, they use a partial predator shaft (which is just plain wood at the joint end), and make it match their butt with rings, joint insert, joint diameter, etc.

You have to specify that you want the butt to work with "existing" predator aftermarket shafts, which all measure the same at the joint.

Can you sell the cue locally, and then start the process over? Maybe that will be the easiest course of action due to the international shipping involved?

As far as the defect on the finish, that looks weird. It looks from the picture that the finish is extending past the joint? Into thin air? Or am I seeing some sort of optical illusion?

 

[GoldCrown]

I think in general, each cue maker will have their own joint diameter. Many are almost exactly the same, at about 0.845 inches. But some will be much larger, such as 0.870, and some slighly smaller, at about 0.835. So when you ask them to build a matching predator shaft, they use a partial predator shaft (which is just plain wood at the joint end), and make it match their butt with rings, joint insert, joint diameter, etc.

You have to specify that you want the butt to work with "existing" predator aftermarket shafts, which all measure the same at the joint.

Can you sell the cue locally, and then start the process over? Maybe that will be the easiest course of action due to the international shipping involved?

As far as the defect on the finish, that looks weird. It looks from the picture that the finish is extending past the joint? Into thin air? Or am I seeing some sort of optical illusion?

So if these are my measurements from various cue joint and shaft collars(21.41, 21.39, 21.40, 21.37)
What would my standard be? Should I use 21.40 on the new Schmelke joint collar.
Thanks, Frank

 

[LSU1018]

I'm ordering a custom cue from schmelke as well but I sent them the shaft that I wanted them to match it up with. I will let yall know how it turns out. Hoping to get it next week

 

[iusedtoberich]

So if these are my measurements from various cue joint and shaft collars(21.41, 21.39, 21.40, 21.37)
What would my standard be? Should I use 21.40 on the new Schmelke joint collar.
Thanks, Frank

I'd personally go with 21.40mm in your case. The difference is quite small from your largest to your smallest, at .04mm, which in inches, is .0016". I don't think you will feel a difference on any combination of those shafts if you have the butt made at 21.40mm (and it actually comes in at that size). But since 3 of your shafts are closest to 21.40, I'd use that as your nominal value, and then the 21.37 would be a hair smaller (but still should not be noticeable).

Double check your measurement instrument also. Close it on a piece of paper, keep small tension on the paper, and then pull out the paper from the jaws if using a caliper, or anvil if using a micrometer, and it will clean the faces well. Then double check the zero. Then remeasure with everything clean.

 

[poolfool1957]

I think in general, each cue maker will have their own joint diameter. Many are almost exactly the same, at about 0.845 inches. But some will be much larger, such as 0.870, and some slighly smaller, at about 0.835. So when you ask them to build a matching predator shaft, they use a partial predator shaft (which is just plain wood at the joint end), and make it match their butt with rings, joint insert, joint diameter, etc.

You have to specify that you want the butt to work with "existing" predator aftermarket shafts, which all measure the same at the joint.

Can you sell the cue locally, and then start the process over? Maybe that will be the easiest course of action due to the international shipping involved?

As far as the defect on the finish, that looks weird. It looks from the picture that the finish is extending past the joint? Into thin air? Or am I seeing some sort of optical illusion?

You pretty much nailed it. If you want a cuemaker to build a cue to your specifications then you have to allow that they cannot read minds in the process.
If I have a shaft that I want a butt made to match, I send the shaft along with specific instrucions and specs.
The reverse is also true. If I want a shaft to match up with an existing butt then I send the butt in so nobody has to depend on the accuracy of my measurements.
The other reason to send in the existing butt or shaft is there may be a need to face the collar just in case the cue doesn't roll straight when assembled.
As an FYI for the OP....Kim might be suprised to find out that she is now a "he" lol.