production or not
- Thread starter tom haney
- Start date
skins said:
Skins, you're addressing the questions I had.
There are certain cues that in my interpretation
would be considered custom cues because of the name.
And it certainly does matter when you go to sell
or trade that cue.
Great imput from everybody. Thanks.
Correct. I think the history of the word simply comes from the idea that when individuals started making changes, modifications, or entire new creations, they were at that time very custom. So, "custom" has come to mean, "a departure from the normal off-the-shelf item." For cues, at one point, that must have been a comparison only to the mass-produced single-piece cues.AuntyDan said:
I'm not sure I'm ready to embrace the term, but it's so far the best I've seen on this subject. And it is accepted in other craftsman and culinary industries. So, I'll start by shaking hands with it.
Should we also include "not mass-produced" in the list above? Or is artisanal by definition the opposite of mass-produced?
Fred <~~~ thinks history has just been made
cuenut said:
But can't you get a custom-made Jackson or even a custom-made
Pechauer?
Doesn't Jacoby make a production cue and also made to order cues?
Also, going in a different direction: Are all Ginacues different? What
about Hercek and Searing? I'm not talking about deliberate twin cues,
of course.
This could get muddy. I agree with the Artisan term but there needs to be more terms than just "artisan" and "production." I do not feel like I am an artisan but I am definately not a production cue. I have a line that meets all the the "criteria" and I also make several customs throughout the year. I am the only one that touches my cues. What am I? (that leaves me open doesn't it)
hondo said:
Yes you can get a true custom from almost all of the "companies" out there, including McDermott and Huebler. And when you go to resell such a cue, they typically demand more $$$ because of it, and most of the time, the seller will state that it is a "XYZ Company custom" or "one of a kind" (not to be confused with a DP, of course).
From what I have seen, most Ginacues I have seen have many duplicates out there in terms of design. The Hoppe style cues are almost always duplicative as well. I would think that once you start getting cues with inlays, the Herceks and Searings will tend to be very low in duplicity of design.
I was simply pointing out that the cuemakers that would consider themselves a "company" rather than a cuemaker are normally the ones most people think of when you say "production cue".
Like you said you make several customs throughout the year,the other cues would be a series,if you would like to say they are production,cues made over and over again to no ones particular design or specs.Alot of guys do what you do,Pechauer,Kikel,and DP,but there are cuemakers out there who make nothing but custom cues and have no series or production type cues besides i believe SPs.ratcues said:
In terms of the cue biz:
Production - any company churning out lots of models of the same design and specs.
Custom - any shop that does one offs in design and spec.
In my mind:
Custom is customer specificed. The customer gives the parameters and the builder makes it according to those specs.
Cues that are one offs but built without a customer's specs are not custom. But they are also not neccesarily production. They are art pieces made to sell to the first person who wants to and can buy them.
You don't call a painting a custom painting that was done without a customer for it so why call a cue without a customer a custom cue?
Small shop that do cues in a line are doing production run cues. This does not mean that the cues are better or worse than any "customer specified" cue that has been built.
For resale value - there really isn't much in most cues whether they are called "custom" or not unless the cue has an established name. Even at that it must have the kind of name that collectors are truly drawn to because a $2000 Tim Scruggs isn't worth $500 in Missouri where they have never heard of Scruggs before. Southwest is about the only cue that consistently sells for more than retail in my experience. And even those are often sold for far less than they are "worth" by Southwest owners who aren't really too keen on what Southwests are going for these days.
Production - any company churning out lots of models of the same design and specs.
Custom - any shop that does one offs in design and spec.
In my mind:
Custom is customer specificed. The customer gives the parameters and the builder makes it according to those specs.
Cues that are one offs but built without a customer's specs are not custom. But they are also not neccesarily production. They are art pieces made to sell to the first person who wants to and can buy them.
You don't call a painting a custom painting that was done without a customer for it so why call a cue without a customer a custom cue?
Small shop that do cues in a line are doing production run cues. This does not mean that the cues are better or worse than any "customer specified" cue that has been built.
For resale value - there really isn't much in most cues whether they are called "custom" or not unless the cue has an established name. Even at that it must have the kind of name that collectors are truly drawn to because a $2000 Tim Scruggs isn't worth $500 in Missouri where they have never heard of Scruggs before. Southwest is about the only cue that consistently sells for more than retail in my experience. And even those are often sold for far less than they are "worth" by Southwest owners who aren't really too keen on what Southwests are going for these days.
ratcues said:
If the Rat Cues are made each to the same specs in batches with no customer in mind then they are production cues whether there is only one person doing the producing or not. There is a street painter in Las Vegas who does airbush pieces using stencils. Very talented fellow. He "produces" hundreds of paintings a week. His technique is so refined that he can create a stunning piece in a matter of minutes. He has a repertoire of motifs that he does aver and over giving the slightest embellishment here and there. This guy is a "production" artist in my mind. He makes pieces with no customer for it but the pieces aren't introspective works of art either, they are easily reproduced designs that he has worked on to be able to do them quickly.
You are a one man production shop if you are turning out the same or similar cues with no customer in mind. If each cue were different in at least design then you would be an artist the way say a Mike Bender is an artist.
Roadie said:
Hey now, I live in Missouri and I've heard of Tim Scruggs and so have a lot of my friends. I have a friend who has played with a Tim Scruggs sneaky since before I even thought about getting interested in cues. I'll take all the $2000 TS's you will sell me for $500 each!
I don't know......the term "production" has such a stigma attached to it and as a one man shop, I wouldn't want to have that label attached to me and my cues.
I would consider an "artisan cuemaker" as someone that does one of a kinds. Stroud, Thomas Wayne, Bender, Black, Hercek, and so on.
I would consider myself a "custom cue maker", since I do both, but my line is still in small quantities.
Production, IMO, is the mass quantities such as McDermott, Meucci, Vking, etc.
I know a lot of custom cuemakers in the ACA. They have a series or line and make customs more detail and inlays than I could ever do. If you called them "production" I think you'd get punched in the nose.
I would consider an "artisan cuemaker" as someone that does one of a kinds. Stroud, Thomas Wayne, Bender, Black, Hercek, and so on.
I would consider myself a "custom cue maker", since I do both, but my line is still in small quantities.
Production, IMO, is the mass quantities such as McDermott, Meucci, Vking, etc.
I know a lot of custom cuemakers in the ACA. They have a series or line and make customs more detail and inlays than I could ever do. If you called them "production" I think you'd get punched in the nose.
You are a one man production shop if you are turning out the same or similar cues with no customer in mind. If each cue were different in at least design then you would be an artist the way say a Mike Bender is an artist.[/QUOTE]
By your own quote, Bender would be a one man production shop except for the few really one offs he puts out. All you have to do is look at the stuff he sends INDYQ to know that he turns out the same or similar cues with no specific customer in mind.
By your own quote, Bender would be a one man production shop except for the few really one offs he puts out. All you have to do is look at the stuff he sends INDYQ to know that he turns out the same or similar cues with no specific customer in mind.
skins said:hey now that's a little harsh don't you think? maybe a nice swift kick in the shin, under the table might suffice.
Probably so but cuemakers are a touchy group. They take a lot of pride in what they build and to have a label attached, right or wrong, if it offends them, look out!
Custom?
I'm with Fred on this one. I've got a Jacoby cue that is 1 of 1 (made just for me) and is unlike anything else I have ever seen from them. Many would consider Jacoby to not be a "custom" cue maker, but they can be. Most "custom" cue makers had, at one time or another, a catalog of standard styles. People like Scruggs and Black. I've got a Black cue that is a design right out of what was his catalog at the time. I'm sure he made many of these identical cues over the years, probably more than 100. So is this cue custom or production? Even McDermott will make you a 1 of 1 if you hound them long enough. Like I said, I'm with Fred on this one. This question can't be answered.
Andy
Cornerman said:
I'm with Fred on this one. I've got a Jacoby cue that is 1 of 1 (made just for me) and is unlike anything else I have ever seen from them. Many would consider Jacoby to not be a "custom" cue maker, but they can be. Most "custom" cue makers had, at one time or another, a catalog of standard styles. People like Scruggs and Black. I've got a Black cue that is a design right out of what was his catalog at the time. I'm sure he made many of these identical cues over the years, probably more than 100. So is this cue custom or production? Even McDermott will make you a 1 of 1 if you hound them long enough. Like I said, I'm with Fred on this one. This question can't be answered.
Andy