Proposing new rack and ball rules...........

wrldpro

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
After reading another thread that was interesting about everyone discussing racking issues,wingballs etc.Here is my $0.02.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=306254

1.)A referee or volunteer random racks every rack and the players cannot question the rack or order of balls

2.)Any player cannot ever touch any object balls as if there is a racker or referee than there is no reason to ever touch any object balls.

3.)Any player can only set the cueball in place when needed(Ball in hand and breakshot) and can not clean,buff,polish or wipe the cueball with anything or anywhere but can ask a referee to clean the cueball not to exceed 2 times a match.

4.)No intentional cut breaks at all and 3 balls must pass the side pockets and for every ball pocketed on breakshot then minus number of balls to pass the side pockets on the break shot.

5.)1 referee/racker/volunteer for every 3-4 tables.How many times have you seen a player having to search for or yell for a referee to call a good hit.Its very easy to have volunteers at every event as needed.

Im sure there may be some issues at tourneys that will happen or be brought up from having a neutral racker and will take some time to iron out,however it will speed play up and also help clean up a few problems what seems to be a large issues to alot of players,event promoters and fans.
 
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I like almost all of these, except no intentional cut breaks... it's hard to judge "intentional" or not. You gotta make it a cut and dried rule so the ref doesn't have to guess what I'm thinking.

Maybe CB can't touch the foot rail? Then you can't cut too much, if you try to cut with low outside to avoid the foot rail you almost have to hit soft and then you might violate the balls-past-the-side rule.

Then again, what if an unlucky kick causes it to hit the foot rail...

I dunno. Personally I don't mind cut breaking, it seems like a tradeoff. You might increase the odds of making a ball but you lose the cue ball a little and can't guarantee a shot after.

You didn't mention it but would this be break from the box?
 
wrldpro said:
1.)A referee or volunteer random racks every rack and the players cannot question the rack or order of balls
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Think a neutral racker is the nuts. Whether a ref or volunteer. Don't think the mechanics are going to like it.

wrldpro said:
2.)Any player cannot ever touch any object balls as if there is a racker or referee than there is no reason to ever touch any object balls.
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Assuming you mean touching the racked balls? Once the rack has been broken, touching any ball should be a foul unless a ref determines good cause (chalk grains, hair, etc.). The Joss Tour plays all ball fouls. BUT, if you touch a ball before executing your shot, you can re-place the ball without penalty (with your opponents permission of course). How do you really get the ball back to its original position?

wrldpro said:
3.)Any player can only set the cueball in place when needed(Ball in hand and breakshot) and can not clean,buff,polish or wipe the cueball with anything or anywhere but can ask a referee to clean the cueball not to exceed 2 times a match.
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Very reasonable but not a complete solution. Especially in one hole, there are guys whose hands sweat profusely. Allowing them to place the cue ball on the playing surface without allowing the opponent to wipe the cue ball continuously almost sanctions the incoming player. Sure you've had that situation come up.

wrldpro said:
4.)No intentional cut breaks at all and 3 balls must pass the side pockets and for every ball pocketed on breakshot then minus number of balls to pass the side pockets on the break shot.
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Again reasonable. Tough to determine intent!

wrldpro said:
5.)1 referee/racker/volunteer for every 3-4 tables.How many times have you seen a player having to search for or yell for a referee to call a good hit.Its very easy to have volunteers at every event as needed.
Click to expand...

Really like the idea of multiple refs at a "pro" event. Sometimes hard to find QUALIFIED volunteers. In most events I play in, the TD is the only ref. Hard to direct, ref and play. Quite honestly, at amateur events, I avoid at all cost calling a ref to the table. Like Forrest Gump, you never know what you're going to get.

wrldpro said:
Im sure there may be some issues at tourneys that will happen or be brought up from having a neutral racker and will take some time to iron out,however it will speed play up and also help clean up a few problems what seems to be a large issues to alot of players,event promoters and fans.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. If no one brings the problems up with potential solutions attached, nothing will ever change!

Lyn
 
onepocket1 said:
I like having a racker. Let's speed up these matches!
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This is of the utmost importance if we're ever gonna get the non-poolplaying general public to watch pool, be it live, on television, or streamed.

Bad news is........it may not help anyway. And I'll be darn suprised if we ever see "volunteer" rackers coming from the spectator seats and doing the racking in a professional quality pool tournament.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
This is of the utmost importance if we're ever gonna get the non-poolplaying general public to watch pool, be it live, on television, or streamed.

Bad news is........it may not help anyway. And I'll be darn suprised if we ever see "volunteer" rackers coming from the spectator seats and doing the racking in a professional quality pool tournament.

Maniac
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If your name was called, and you're in the stands, would you do it?
I bet you would. And I would too.
I think most of the people willing to sweat a major tournament are.

But, it doesn't have to be something like 'let's put this guy on the spot and shine a spotlight into the crowd right after the lag'. They'd be selected ahead of time.
 
Play Rack-Your-Own, but have a 20-second time limit from the time all the balls are in the rack. I don't care what you do during that 20 seconds, but if you exceed it you pass the break to your opponent.

I've got to be able to clean off the cue ball. I play with some folks who leave so much chalk on the CB it looks like a 2-ball.
 
How about something like an automatic ball setter. It would not be too difficult to design a device that touched the end and side rails. Drop the balls in a hopper. Reach in and place the 9 and the 1 or whatever in position by swapping balls only. Twist the tightening mechanism and the balls are racked.

Player / ref might want to brush the racking area prior to racking. All brush strokes are from the head to the foot of the table.

Sometimes you get a tight rack sometimes you don't. You can look at the rack for up to 30 seconds and use Joe Tucker's approach (or something similar) for analyzing the break shot.

I think the requirements for a tight rack are over rated.

The player (or ref) should be able to clean the cue ball anytime they can legally pick up the cue ball using the table cloth located near the rack.

I have played with people and their chalk marks on the cue ball are distracting to say the least.

Spectator refs should be acceptable to both players before the match starts.
 
CreeDo said:
If your name was called, and you're in the stands, would you do it?
I bet you would.
Click to expand...

........and, you win the bet because I'd do it in a heartbeat!!! I'd be honored to have the opportunity. I'd also give 'em a good, tight one every time too.

What I meant in my last post was that I do not believe the professional PARTICIPANTS would ever want/allow us "recreational players" to ever have a hand in THEIR game at something that matters (the break shot) so much in the outcome of the game/match.

I can just hear the loser of a match now....."If that guy would have racked as good for me as he did -insert name here-, then I would have won the match".

I'm not sure if we are ready to have THAT stigma hanging over our head. You know, the guy that lost the 2014 U.S. Open for so-and-so because he slugged-racked him in the case game.

Maniac
 
1) Either a neutral racker or 20-30 second time limit for racking (your own or your opponents)

2) No touching the racked balls after the rack is removed.

3) Alternating breaks

4) In the case of a hill-hill match, either through alternating break and runs or just even solid play the final rack becomes push-out only after the break if the breaker makes a ball.

I know #4 might be controversial, but this way you speed up the rest of the match by avoiding it the rest of the time, and the breaker retains some of an advantage from winning the lag. I saw in the other thread that some thought the push-out didn't really give an advantage, but I think it depends on the skill of the player. I have seen many push-outs by SVB that opponents immediately gave back, barely leaving their chair, and he drills a 2 rail shot on the OB and plays an airtight safety.
 
Please...all these mechanics threads are crazy. Rack em however you want. If the opponent jigs the rack then you do. Dont know how? Learn.

Easy option...play ten ball. Problem solved. You're welcome.
 
take the balls that are in predetermined postions and set them on the table first, take the other balls and put them into a sac that is set on the table. Mix them around, take them out randomly and place them into a magic rack type of product, end of problem.
 
I see your point now Maniac :)
It's true, even with a magic rack I guarantee some guy will say "that dude in the stands didn't know what he's doing, I hit that perfect and nothing went in."

You know what we should do? Let's just book Ralf Souquet to do it. He's got this honest, careful, professional vibe. Nobody would dare say "yeah, Ralf slugged me. He probably took a bribe from Shane."

Your "ball sac" reminds me of the unfortunate screen shot I posted a while back (top right corner).
 
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