Proposition Bet for Strong Players

[sjm]

Perhaps my favorite propsition bet is the position below. The game is nine ball. It's your turn and you've got one turn to win the rack. The cue ball and three ball are both frozen to the long rail. Anyone out there taking this bet at even money? If not, what odds do you want? Finally, what's your approach to winning the proposition bet? If you're a lefty, try the above setup. Righties, try the below setup (thanks, LastTwo). Assume that the four doesn't carom in off the seven.

 

[LastTwo]

Perhaps my favorite propsition bet is the position below. The game is nine ball. It's your turn and you've got one turn to win the rack. The cue ball and three ball are both frozen to the long rail. Anyone out there taking this bet at even money? If not, what odds do you want? Finally, what's your approach to winning the proposition bet?

I doubt your going to get any takers from right-handed players. The 3-ball requires either shooting behind the back, left handed, or using the rake.

 

[shawnNC]

maybe two to one on the money. sink into the rail to play the three and get shape on the carom (i'm assuming it is available.) play the carom, leaving the seven ball in a makeable position. everything from there should be elementary.

 

[shawnNC]

did i mention im lefty?

 

[Celtic]

Is that 4 supposed to be wired into the corner off the 7 if you hit the 6 with the cueball? It does not quite look like it goes, it would come off the 7 pretty straight and catch the horn. If the 6-4 off the 7 is not wired I am not taking this without pretty big odds.

 

[sjm]

Sorry folks, I've corrected my post so it works for both righties and lefties. Let's assume the four can't be made on a carom.

 

[racefornine]

proposition

Draw off the short rail and pocket the 9 or 2 rail the three and break the cluster

 

[Cue Crazy]

Might be a 2 way shot there with a posibility to sink the 9 in the side, and play safe at the same time. 4 rails into the 9 with the cb, while cross banking the 3 behind the cluster of balls for safe. possibility of skipping the 3 off the rail and 4 to pocket it as well. I might could even cross bank the 3 clean by the looks of the picture.

Greg

 

[sjm]

Might be a 2 way shot there with a posibility to sink the 9 in the side, and play safe at the same time. 4 rails into the 9 with the cb, while cross banking the 3 behind the cluster of balls for safe.

Greg

Very interesting and creative shot, cue crazy, but forget the defense, it's a one turn proposition, not a game situation.

 

[Celtic]

Might be a 2 way shot there with a posibility to sink the 9 in the side, and play safe at the same time. 4 rails into the 9 with the cb, while cross banking the 3 behind the cluster of balls for safe. possibility of skipping the 3 off the rail and six to pocket it as well.

Greg

You cannot play safe, you have to get out. The 3 rail bank combo on the 9 in the side looks like one of the few shots to be made if the 4 does not go in off the 7.

 

[sjm]

You cannot play safe, you have to get out. The 3 rail bank combo on the 9 in the side looks like one of the few shots to be made if the 4 does not go in off the 7.

So far, the shot you've just mentioned and both of the shots mentioned by racefornine are the only three ways I've ever seen the propostion attempted. i won't yet say how I used to shoot it when I was willing to bet on it (over twenty years ago).

 

[Cue Crazy]

No safe but if you make the shot you go on correct? The more I look at It the more shots I see. I see the 3 rail with the 3 mentioned as well as 2 long rails with the cue into the 9. also a draw shot one rail to the 9, list goes on and on. I think I could make the three cross and get the break out though if allowed. Now that I read, It seems that is the general idea. That is more then likely how I would go. I have seen tighter banks go clean though to My amazement, and without hitting the 4 to split the balls, there may not be a clean shot afterwards, altough the odds are low that the 3 would not hit the 4. Greg

 

[td873]

Nice proposition shot. Off the top of my head:

1) Cross bank the 3, with a ticky (or double ticky) off the 4 / 4-6. Cue ball 4 rails around the world for a second chance at the breakout. 3:1 or 4:1 on this since I don't play banks or one-pocket much. [don't mind the curving arrow, I just got lazy]
START( %Cm7[0%Dp9F1%Fp6G4%Go4F0%IZ3D6%Pg7Z9%UD7S7%V_8D2%Wr9L5%Xm8Z6 %Yl7Z3%Zh0[3%[r5V3%\m7Y8%]`9D4%^r1U0%eA5`8%_m8H4%`P2[0%aC6T6 )END

2) [crazy] Since the 3 is fairly close to the pocket, hard stroke the cue ball for a rail first shot on the 3 (cheating the pocket) with draw/stun (?) hoping for a breakout. 10:1 since the 3 is hard to pocket this way, and there are no guarantees on the break out.
START( %Cm7[0%Dp9F1%Fp6G4%Go4F0%IZ3D6%Pg7[1%Wr3Z4%Xm8Z6%Yk8[0%Zh2Z6 %[r2N4%\m7Y8%eB0b4 )END

3) [yeah right] Play the slightly elevated shot on the 3, hopping the cue ball slightly in the air, where it hits the cushion on the way down, and rolls over for the break out. 25:1 since getting the cue ball to even hit the object balls is pretty frickin hard.

4) 5 rail the 3 ball into the herd of balls. Try to draw into the pack as well. Pray for luck. 10-1 as well.
START( %Cm7[0%Dp9F1%Fp6G4%Go4F0%IZ3D6%Pg7Z9%UD0N6%VO1D1%Wr7X8%Xm8Z6 %Yl3Z8%Zh0[3%[k3V5%\m7Y8%]P6D5%^r9W5%eA7b2%_m8H4%`Q0[0%aC1O7 )END

All I can think of at this hour...

-td

 

[TATE]

Perhaps my favorite propsition bet is the position below. The game is nine ball. It's your turn and you've got one turn to win the rack. The cue ball and three ball are both frozen to the long rail. Anyone out there taking this bet at even money? If not, what odds do you want? Finally, what's your approach to winning the proposition bet? If you're a lefty, try the above setup. Righties, try the below setup (thanks, LastTwo). Assume that the four doesn't carom in off the seven.

I wouldn't bet a nickle on it.

Chris

 

[sjm]

Nice effort by all, especially TD873 who really ran with it to the max, and yes, this is a tough proposition bet. I always asked for 3:1 odds, but was willing to take the bet at 2:1. Yes, it was a shot I practiced, and that affected my odds of success. I'm a lefty and the way I played it was with straight draw and a little right hand english, as diagrammed below (a righty would need a little left). the key to the shot is to aim slightly into the long rail. To all having a big stroke, try it and you may surprise yourself. The cue ball knocks the nine into the side.

 

[Cue Crazy]

That would be the one rail draw into the 9. One that I had in mind, but would not be My first choice in a match. I have made the shot, and understand how to play It, but the odds seem really high of hitting the 9 off just enough to miss pocketing it. the breakout could still come from it, but that's really letting It hang out. I'm guessing this is an odds shot, that would be practiced to show others for exibition type purposes , the object is to actually pocket the 3 and make the 9, and not an actual match situation where the object is getting position on the next ball.
I am afraid I misunderstood the objective, and was looking at it, as to get a breakout for the next shot for the most part, or playing It 2 way, instead of focusing mainly on making the 9. In that case the one rail would seem like the higher percentage shot, but I bet you put alot of practice in, just to make 2/3. I like a good challenge, think I am going to practice it, and see what odds I can get for kicks. Thanks for presenting a new challenge. should be fun. Greg

 

[Jersey]

Nice effort by all, especially TD873 who really ran with it to the max, and yes, this is a tough proposition bet. I always asked for 3:1 odds, but was willing to take the bet at 2:1. Yes, it was a shot I practiced, and that affected my odds of success. I'm a lefty and the way I played it was with straight draw and a little right hand english, as diagrammed below (a righty would need a little left). the key to the shot is to aim slightly into the long rail. To all having a big stroke, try it and you may surprise yourself. The cue ball knocks the nine into the side.

That's it!...stroke shot w/ rt draw to the top rail, cb into the nine, nine into the side pocket...I've seen my dad do this shot many times!...awesome...

 

[NO1UKNOW]

Question

Why Wouldnt You Just Play Safe On The 3 Ball And Leave The Cue In The Cluster Of 3 Balls And Then Just Either Brake The Balls Out And Leave Yourself With A Combo On The Nine Or A Break-out Shot... That Would Be The Smart Thing To Do Instead Of Making The 3 Ball With A Hail-marry Shot Hoping To Sink The 9 Ball... Cause If The 9 Doesnt Go Then Your... How Do I Say... Oh Yes... Screwed. Just My Oppinion.

 

[sjm]

Those who've pointed out that, in a game situation, you might not play this draw shot are correct, but this is a proposition bet, not a game situation. In a game situation, the three ball three rails into the nine or the safety are probably both superior choices to the draw shot.

For those who are going to give the draw into the nine ashot, note that the shot can be made with or wthout english. Of course, the less you aim into the long rail, the more english you'll need. I've always prefer to use a little english in attemtping it.

 

[Cue Crazy]

The safe would probably be My first choice also in a game, unless I was feeling really good, and had a itchy trigger finger by some chance, and thought i could cross the three off the cluster, getting the breakout at the same time. The way I understand this shot was put, the safety is not an option, and the 9 was the true object. I may have misunderstood though.
playing the cue up in there is a good safe, but could scratch easily if you don't have perfect cue ball control at the time. everything has it's risk, would not be any fun if not. I would safe the CB that way also if I thought My speed was close enough to My target area.
I try to play withing My limitations in any given night, as they change, and that increases My odds of success at the time. My opponent, and the table are also taken into concideration when making my mind up on how to play a paticular shot. I have had too many people kick out of that safe when i thought I had them, or jump out of it, make the shot, and runnout on me, so That's why I think that way. Sometimes I have to be for the most part all offensive minded. It all depends on the situation.