Pros and Centerball

JoeyA said:
If you bring 34 bags of sand I will play you for some of it.

I like playing old guys except for that old buzzard who owns all of those Balabushkas and U.S. Open winner cues over in Texas. That old dude beat me 4 in a row.
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Now Joey,

I'm going to ask you what US Open Winner In Texas. But...before you answer, maybe you should re-read your post & count the # of times you used a subjective adjective since you are the man of Have Words Will Travel.

Joey,

What US Open Winner in Texas?

Signature: Old Man Rick
 
I know we have talked about it before, but I would love to see Shane, Archer, Earl, Darren, Busty, and Efren and Ralph hooked up with two cameras, one closeup on the cue ball and one on the shot. It would have to be during a tournament or gambling match, or I doubt they would be doing what they normally do when shooting. Is there anyone else you would like to see wired with a camera? Bartrum commented on here once that he aims one way and shoots the other way, whatever he does he does it well, if you beat Mika like he has, you gotta be good. Donnie Mills shoots Pro Caliber, It would be nice to get his insight on aiming and cue ball contact.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I follow the science guy's logic, which state that what the CB does depends on where the actual "chalk mark" is, and what "velocity" the stick had at time of impact. Note, the word "velocity" includes speed plus direction in its meaning.

I'd bet any amount of money that if you took a Bustamante tricked out spin shot where it looked like he hit center ball, and inspected the CB for the chalk mark, it would not be on center.

Note, I'm not a good player, seriously.
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If you look at a chalk mark on a cue ball after a shot what could possibly be gleaned from it?

umm...I mean if you put a dot on a ball it wouldn't/couldn't always end up dead center if you picked it up and turn it to look at i?
 
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jersey jer said:
If you look at a chalk mark on a cue ball after a shot what could that possibly be gleaned from it?

umm...I mean if you put a dot on a ball it would/could always end up dead center if you picked it up and turn it to look at it.
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Have you ever seen a training CB will markings on it, so its orientation can be restored, and the actual tip contact point can be observed? That's what I was talking about.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Have you ever seen a training CB will markings on it, so its orientation can be restored, and the actual tip contact point can be observed? That's what I was talking about.
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Here is a visual example and what I designed and use.

cuesight_2244_142848492
 
JB,

Obviously you probably have some bias, since you said you designed it, but how would you compare it to the Rempe ball? Does Aramith make it? I have the Rempe ball, and was looking to see if there is anything similar out there.

Thank you.
 
iusedtoberich said:
JB,

Obviously you probably have some bias, since you said you designed it, but how would you compare it to the Rempe ball? Does Aramith make it? I have the Rempe ball, and was looking to see if there is anything similar out there.

Thank you.
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I find that the Rempe ball is too busy. So I tried to simplify this one down to half-tip and full tips of spin.

The side shown has the small circles representing a half tip shift and the circles themselves are the size of the contact patch between the tip and the ball. The other side has straight lines that are one tip apart to make it easier to visualize the ball in sections. The white circle area goes out to the miscue limit. Hit inside the white no miscue (with a chalked tip of course) hit outside the circle definite miscue. I did this to help people really get a feeling for how far out they can physically go.

Aramith does not make this ball but it is made of phenolic resin and reacts the same as an Aramith ball in my opinion.

Last time I used it I was doing stroke drills on a known line and it was very helpful to show me how far off of center ball that I was actually hitting.
 
The typical amateur uses right spin because he wants the cue ball to go right after hitting the rail. A pro will use exactly the amount of right he needs to make the cue ball go exactly as far right off the rail that he wants.

Additionally, the pure stroke of the pro means he can hit closer to center ball and still get the spin that the amateur needs to go way out on the CB to get.

Net result is the pro is usually hitting closer to center ball than the amateur even when he does use spin.
 
3kushn said:
IMO The Pros have mastered speed control. When you get there the need for side spin is reduced. You mostly see big spin shots the first shot after the break when they might be totally out of line. Once in line speed rules in combination with the vertical axis.
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:thumbup:

And if *we* then recall C.J. s "TOI" as soon as some try to practice this at the table, they will see how important speed is :-)

Speed can heal your overall game dramatically (using the correct speed^^).
 
LHP5 said:
Well I always figured Pro's used alot of center ball hits because they rarely get out of line. No need to juice the cue ball if you're going in the natural direction right? Well, I mean Efren always is in line but you can see he uses alot of english anyways.......
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I think it's the other way around, LH.
A player stays in line because he spins the ball.

I feel the trick is to let the tip go WITH the spin.....so you aim closer to center.
...and STROKE it, don't club it...a stroke is a gradual acceleration where
the tip stays on the ball just a nano second longer.
Clubbing is starting the cue too quick.

Here's an example of a player that gets all the english he needs...
..notice he looks like he is addressing the cue-ball center.
https://www.google.com/url?url=http...+olney&usg=AFQjCNGiTNyKCimyFjKCKJ7KZKZQxTAH9w

When you see a player cue a way to the side it means that the tip is
probably moving back towards center on the final stroke, thus he's
taking off what he's putting on, resulting in LESS spin.
Let your tip go WITH the spin...that's why you see chalk marks from
draw shots..why would side spin be any different?
 
Funny how all the non pros know how the pros do things.

A non pro can have the same skills as a pro. Just because you may not does not mean its true of every non pro. This pro pool player worship is funny to watch from the side lines.

If you just go by how a person moves the cue ball, well then I'm a pro then cause I can do anything I want with the cue ball. I know exaxtly where I hit the cue ball,no guessing involved.

But, then again I put in over 20 hours a week either playing or practicing. This is how the pros got their skills. I've been doing this for 2 1/2 years. This is the level of commitment needed to have pro level skills. This is also why my game keeps improving and no one else I play game has improved. No drive to do their best.
 
DogsPlayingPool:
... the pure stroke of the pro means he can hit closer to center ball and still get the spin that the amateur needs to go way out on the CB to get.
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The amount of spin you get is determined by where you hit the cue ball, not by the "purity" of your stroke (whatever that is). If someone who has never hit a ball before hits it on the same spot as a pro hits it, they'll get the same amount of spin.

The difference between an experienced player and a beginner is that the experienced player hits the spot he wants to.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The amount of spin you get is determined by where you hit the cue ball, not by the "purity" of your stroke (whatever that is). If someone who has never hit a ball before hits it on the same spot as a pro hits it, they'll get the same amount of spin.

The difference between an experienced player and a beginner is that the experienced player hits the spot he wants to.

pj
chgo
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Nice and well chosen words Patrick.



Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk 2
 
Some players cue up on center, but their final hit is off center. Sometimes its done to mask their game on purpose, but other times its just the way they shoot. Its interesting to study who does what, and how. But all that really matters is what works best for you.
 
FWIW, Earl Strickland has said repeatedly that he applies 2 tips of English for most shots. He can shoot that way and rocket a cut shot 9 feet down the table in the pocket. See the TAR Podcast with him and SVB. Earl can do that but few others.

I used to think in terms of "top left" or "right" English. After reading "the 8 ball bible" (excellent book) I've gained an appreciation for the difference a half tip of English can make.



- Jeff in Frisco
 
jeffj2h said:
FWIW, Earl Strickland has said repeatedly that he applies 2 tips of English for most shots. He can shoot that way and rocket a cut shot 9 feet down the table in the pocket. See the TAR Podcast with him and SVB. Earl can do that but few others.

I used to think in terms of "top left" or "right" English. After reading "the 8 ball bible" (excellent book) I've gained an appreciation for the difference a half tip of English can make.



- Jeff in Frisco
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I learned it the hard way:) When someone explained to me what english was, I started using it all the time.
One time I was playing against an A+ player and made a shot, but scratched. After the game I asked his opinion on what I did wrong. He told me that I shot the right shot, but if I didn't put all that spin on the ball, I wouldn't scratch.
Then he asked me what english I put on the ball and it turned out that any time I shot a ball with english, I hit it with very extreme side, sometimes outside of the miscue limit, and somehow managed not to miscue and make the ball:grin-square: I was so shocked when my opponent explained to me about half or tip, tip, tip and a half of english difference.
I just didn't know, so any time I wanted to spin the ball, I shot it with very extreme english.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The amount of spin you get is determined by where you hit the cue ball, not by the "purity" of your stroke (whatever that is). If someone who has never hit a ball before hits it on the same spot as a pro hits it, they'll get the same amount of spin.

The difference between an experienced player and a beginner is that the experienced player hits the spot he wants to.

pj
chgo
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What about how well the ball is timed?
 
In years past, I used to believe that the players of old, did mask their game on purpose, by cueing here and hitting there. I don't believe that is true today and have doubts that it was ever true, although there were many in my day that continued to perpetuate the myths of pool. It was an easy and fun way to describe what you didn't understand.

As I have become slightly more competent at cueing, I have come to experience what a lot of the people on this forum have been saying for a long time and that is, it's all about speed, contact location and angle of insertion, nothing more. The accelerating stroke, the follow through, the alignment, the stance, the grip are all powerful but as I learn new shots that other top players make, I realize that it is simply that I can hit the cue ball at the same spot, at the same angle of insertion and at the same speed and I will get the same results.

Now if you don't think length of back stroke has a lot to do with the results you get, then you aren't on the same page. I don't try to get into that many discussions about the how of things. There are others far more competent than I that can explain it better. I do, however KNOW, that if you try different things, you will get different results (I'm not crazy :grin:) and if you want to get better at pool you had better be trying things that you don't already know how to do.

I'm sure that when people see me practicing the same shot over and over and over, missing all the while, some of them must be thinking that I am a basket case. What some of them don't know, is that I am trying different ways to make the same shot and attempting to find out what is the best way for ME to make that shot and obtain different shape for the cue ball.

Just yesterday, a young player came up to me and politely asked for some help. He was young, strong, didn't move around too much, had a relatively straight stroke but couldn't draw the cue ball a foot if his life depended on it. I explained that it was all about speed, location of tip and angle of insertion. Some of that went in one ear and out the other and it wasn't until I furiously cleaned the cue ball and asked him to draw the cue ball, that it finally sunk in, that he wasn't hitting the cue ball where he thought he was hitting it. I wished that I had one of those John Barton cue balls. After fixing his grip hand location, getting him to keep his head perfectly still and having him hit the cue ball where it needed to be hit, at the speed it needed to be hit and at the angle of insertion that it needed to be hit, the lightbulb came on and a radiant smile appeared.

Anyway, it's a fun game. Just don't get so regimented that you think there is only one best way to do anything. It is up to each person to work out there own salvation. Sometimes it is difficult to know what the other person is doing even if they are masking it with some idiosyncratic movement.
 
The amount of spin you get is determined by where you hit the cue ball, not by the "purity" of your stroke (whatever that is). If someone who has never hit a ball before hits it on the same spot as a pro hits it, they'll get the same amount of spin.

The difference between an experienced player and a beginner is that the experienced player hits the spot he wants to.

pj
chgo
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SakuJack:
What about how well the ball is timed?
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What does that mean?

pj
chgo
 
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