Pro's shooting with mass produced cues?

M

march11934

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I never really paid much attention to who is shooting with what until I watched a few videos on You Tube. There was a series called what's in your case and I watched one for Johnny Archer. He spoke about his line of cues and that he shoots with one. He made a very clear point regarding the shaft is EXACTLY the same as any shaft that is sold on the market. This got me thinking a bit. I recall Allison Fisher with Cuetech and also found Mika Immonen is shooting Mezz.
This is where I am not trying to pass judgment against but I have seen many custom made cues on this site and read about their quality in both hit and construction. I have also noted how maybe Schon is the only "mass produced cue" that is arguably at the same level of these custom made pieces. So this is my conclusion and question. Either the pro's are sacrificing their cue standards for the sake of a sponsorship or is this custom vs mass produced standard hype? Or is there some other truth to this?
Again... no intentions against anyone and their work. Just looking for some truth and opinions. Thanks in advance for your time.
Regards, G~
 
I believe the custom cues are bought with the design, artistry, and personality of the cue in mind. This is what makes it custom. Along with specified weight, use of materials, etc.
 
It's the same thing with music. I'm a drummer that has definite views on which drum company is the best. When you get a sponsership it really doesn't matter what kind of drums they are. As a pro you have the pick of any drums at the company or you have them custom made. They still look like the drums you can buy at Guitar Center...but trust me, they aren't.
I find it hard to beleive that pro pool players are using the production cue off the shelf. They probably have a choice of hundreds of shafts to choose from.
 
I will jump up and say that I also believe jacoby to be up on the same level as customs. I think part of the reason you see a few pros playing with mass produced cues is that its not the arrow, but the indian behind it. JMHO
 
cowboyup200560 said:
I will jump up and say that I also believe jacoby to be up on the same level as customs. I think part of the reason you see a few pros playing with mass produced cues is that its not the arrow, but the indian behind it. JMHO
Click to expand...

I think you are hitting the nail on the head. I can pick up a bar cue with a slip on tip that looks like something a dog has been chewing on and beat most people in my area. IMHO most people should spend $200 on a pool lesson when they are spending $1000 on a cue. If you look at predators advertising you would think those cues put the balls in for you!:slap: :slap:
 
In most, if not all Pro sports, the Indians play with sponsorsequipment. They're still doing the hitting and shooting.
 
You can get from point A to point B wether you're driving a Volkswagon or a BMW. But you're gonna feel and look better in the BMW. AND............the professional driver.................if he is paid enough.................will gladly settle for the Volkswagon and drive it better than the amateur in a BMW. (he also get's to test drive literally hundreds and hundreds of Volkswagons to select and then 'tweak' his particular choice to satisfy his taste.)

dave
 
I have to disagree a little on this. Johnny is pretty much the exception, not the rule. He is the only male pro that I know of that has any really lucrative deal in place. Earl used to, but just ask him about Cue-tec, now that they are no longer paying him:wink: (sorry Travis Trotter). Although a good player can play well with pretty much anything, almost none can play GREAT with just anything. That is why 99% of top players have a custom. The only real deal that most get are at best a free cue every so often, and usually only a significant discount. The interesting part of this(to me, anyways) is that most won't argue that some production cues hit great. The biggest difference, in mu humble opinion, is in the shaft. The chances of getting a really good shaft on ANY production cue is very slim compared to custom guys, who are usually consistently getting great wood, and are a little bit more concerned with taper, etc. That is why you see the large market for after-market shafts, such as predator, ob1, tiger, etc. These are also "low deflection", but regardless would be a big improvement over most mass produced shafts. Most players usually have a type of hit in mind, which they usually know which cuemaker in their area fit that. Past that, I think most top level players go with aesthetics, or friendships. But, it's jmo.
 
Pros are like any other person. They can get a cue "off the rack" but then will proceed to tweak it as they see fit.

I can tell you that the pros do not have "hundreds of shafts" to choose from. Certainly they are asked what they prefer sometimes and the factory will adjust the cues. But often that feedback makes it's way back into the production so it's win/win.

This isn't like Golf where the big boys maintain teams of engineers ready to customize a pro player's equipment to the n'th degree. Most of the time the players are sent the cues in the weight they specify and that's it.

Although, I have to say that I don't know if that's how it is in golf either.

As to the question of fit, finish, and the ever elusive "hit". Most people would have a hard time telling one cue from another if they were taped up.

John McChesney proved this by taping over the joints of several cues and asking people to identify which is which. In fact no one was able to identify which joint was in use solely by how the cue felt when it hit the ball.

However, there is "something" to the way that some really high end cues feel as opposed to the average production cue. That something to me is that most cues have tighter tolerances and use wood that has been aged better. Not all of them, as I have played with custom cues that hit like garbage. But some of them have that "hit" that is pure bliss.

And some production cues have that as well. But not all of them. Production, by nature, is finding an acceptable average. Thus some cues coming off the line will be exceptionally good hitting cues, most will be very good, and some will be okay to crappy.

The old saying about arrows and indians is true to an extent. The best archer will not succeed if he has rotten arrows. The thing to remember is that today's production cues are pretty much all good arrows which make it easier for a great indian.

The point of all this is that "hit" is very subjective. It's very difficult in pool to tie one's specific performance to a particular pool cue since there are so many factors at work there.

Johnny Archer is neither the exception nor the rule. He is a professional player with tremendous talent who can play extrememly well as long as the equipment he is using is within certain specifcations.

Earl Strickland won five US Opens and Three World Championships using CueTec cues. He might dog them now but in fact that's what he was using when he won.

Mike Sigel was going off on how good his cues are and Bob Meucci interrupted Mike's speech to ask him what brand of cue he awas using when he won all of his titles.

Rodney Morris, on the day he got his Fury sponsorship, picked a cue off the rack and took second to Johnny Archer with it that weekend.

Another well known Phillipine pro has been photographed after a victory using a Fury cue - he is not sponsored by Fury.

Another well known professional player, Cliff Joyner, plays with a Meucci. (not sponsored)

Mark Tadd played with a CueTec (not sponsored)

Shane Van Boeing plays/played with a Joss/Schon or Schon/Joss combination.

And the list goes on. The only convincing argument that any particular cue outperforms another one is with the whole spliced shaft thing. And even that is hard to quantify when being used by players because each person has a different experience.

I am certain that I could take ten brands, five custom and five production and put the same tips on all of them, paint them all solid black and no player on Earth could tell which was which by feel alone. What would be interesting to see however was how they would fare if the players were asked to rank each cue based on a set of criteria such as balance, responsiveness, "hit", and so on. I wonder what those results would show?

I'd bet that some production cues would get a higher rating than some custom cues.
 
Hey JBCases,
Thanks for the response. You made my case only stronger with all the additional facts you added. I really like you end point of painting the cues black and test hitting them. I wonder if there is any cue maker that is confident enough to attempt this? Predator sure markets themselves with some aggression. Kind of like is it Coke or Pepsi?
 
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