Psychologist Writes About "The Zone"

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
I recently ran across the name of a well known psychologist who writes about something he calls "Flow", which sounds to me like a more general name for what we in pool (and other sports) call "The Zone". His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (sounds like spitting out bugs), and his best known book on the subject is called "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", which can be found here at Amazon. You can also read about the author, his books and ideas, in this Wikipedia article.

Has anybody read this guy, or even heard of him? Know what his books are like?

Thanks,

pj
chgo

Edit - From the Wikipedia article: "Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing, characterized by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. Proposed by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, the concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields."
 
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Pleasure of Small Motions

Patrick Johnson said:
I recently ran across the name of a well known psychologist who writes about something he calls "Flow", which sounds to me like a more general name for what we in pool (and other sports) call "The Zone". His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (sounds like spitting out bugs), and his best known book on the subject is called "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", which can be found here at Amazon. You can also read about the author in this Wikipedia article.

Has anybody read this guy, or even heard of him? Know what his books are like?

Thanks,

pj
chgo
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No, but Pleasure of Small Motions is excellent reading and takes the BS out of finding your zone.
 
Bigkahuna said:
No, but Pleasure of Small Motions is excellent reading and takes the BS out of finding your zone.
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Yeah, I have "Pleasures" and like it a lot - not just for its relevance to The Zone, but also for its general philosophy of enjoying the game for itself.

pj
chgo

Edit - I think Robert Fancher, the author of "Pleasures of Small Motions", is also a psychologist. His book can be found here at Amazon.
 
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Flow

Reading what little information the article gives, "flow" doesn't actually appear to be the zone but one thing that happens when we are in the zone.

I am interested but would like to read enough to tell what the book is about before plunking down dollars. Amazon may give a better idea, I haven't been there yet. I have long said that when I am playing well each inning or rack is one continuous action. Not literally, but in my mind. This seems to be what the author means by flow. The zone includes a heightening of the senses and a sorting of all of this input at a level that doesn't disturb our focus on our goal while passing through all information needed to achieve our goal.

Hu

(edit) I was playing with security on my machine the other day and can't read any of the book on Amazon. On the other hand the book isn't but eleven bucks or two of his books for twenty. I may take a flyer on it. I hate paying thirty to a hundred dollars for a book and finding out it is of no value to me but the price of these are in my what the hell zone. I used to regularly read psychology books for entertainment but it has been years. Might as well see if my security will even let me order.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I recently ran across the name of a well known psychologist who writes about something he calls "Flow", which sounds to me like a more general name for what we in pool (and other sports) call "The Zone". His name is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (sounds like spitting out bugs), and his best known book on the subject is called "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", which can be found here at Amazon. You can also read about the author, his books and ideas, in this Wikipedia article.

Has anybody read this guy, or even heard of him? Know what his books are like?

Thanks,

pj
chgo

Edit - From the Wikipedia article: "Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing, characterized by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. Proposed by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, the concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields."
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All of his writing is highly recommended by Oprah, IIRC. We have "Flow.." but I've never read it. When he was on TV, he said the closest pronunciation of his name is: Chicks Send Me High.

Fred
 
ShootingArts said:
This was written by someone who attended the author's lecture on flow. Perhaps of interest.

http://austega.com/education/articles/flow.htm
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Thanks for that. Here are a couple of excerpts from the article:

...at higher levels of consciousness the more mundane aspects become subconscious in order to restrict conscious attention to the number of items it can manage. So a pianist described not noticing the room, his hands, the keys, the score, but rather being conscious of only "being one with the music and expressing emotion".
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That sounds a lot like the zone to me. Being in direct contact with what you want to do and less conscious of how you're doing it.

How does it feel to be in "the flow"?
Completely involved, focused, concentrating - with this either due to innate curiosity or as the result of training
Sense of ecstasy - of being outside everyday reality
Great inner clarity - knowing what needs to be done and how well it is going
Knowing the activity is doable - that the skills are adequate, and neither anxious or bored
Sense of serenity - no worries about self, feeling of growing beyond the boundaries of ego - afterwards feeling of transcending ego in ways not thought possible
Timeliness - thoroughly focused on present, don't notice time passing
Intrinsic motivation - whatever produces "flow" becomes its own reward
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That's a little less familiar, but still in the neighborhood.

pj
chgo
 
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Cornerman said:
All of his writing is highly recommended by Oprah, IIRC. We have "Flow.." but I've never read it. When he was on TV, he said the closest pronunciation of his name is: Chicks Send Me High.

Fred
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So it's "Me high; chicks send me high"? I like the guy already.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So it's "Me high; chicks send me high"? I like the guy already.

pj
chgo
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It's "Me high; chicks SenT me high." Sheesh!

My wife has two colleagues who arrived in Fargo from Hungary yesterday. they'll be at my house tonight. I will ask them to pronounce the name and I'll report how close it is to either of these.

Sounds like interesting stuff.

Of course it would be nice to know how to obtain FLOW or the ZONE or whatever.

But it would also be nice to know how to get OUT of the state of AINTFLOWINGFORSH7T--how to get back to normal from that awful antiflow state...
 
Officer Mike:
It's "Me high; chicks SenT me high." Sheesh!
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Hungarian pronunciation cops - sheesh!

pj
chgo
attachment.php
 
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From Wikipedia
"Mih?ly Cs?kszentmih?lyi (pronounced [ˈmihaːj tʃiːkˈsɛntmihaːji] in Hungarian), born on September 29, 1934, is a psychology professor at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California and is the former head of the department of psychology at the University of Chicago and of the department of sociology and anthropology at Lake Forest College. He is noted for his work in the study of happiness, creativity, subjective well-being, and fun, but is best known as the architect of the notion of flow and for his years of research and writing on the topic. He is the author of many books and over 120 articles or book chapters. Martin Seligman, former president of the American Psychological Association, described Csikszentmihalyi as the world's leading researcher on positive psychology.[1] He is one of the most widely cited psychologists today,[citation needed] in a variety of fields related to psychology and business.

He received his B.A. in 1960 and his Ph.D. in 1965, both from the University of Chicago. He is the father of MIT Media Lab associate professor Christopher Cs?kszentmih?lyi and University of Wisconsin at Madison professor of Philosophical and religious traditions of China and East Asia, Mark Cs?kszentmih?lyi."

More than you wanted know. His works are more than worth reading they are an education. The positions he has held are quite prestigious within the field of psychology.

He is one of the leading psychologists in his area of expertise. His concept of flow is related to but not identical with the "zone" as this term is used in pocket billiards.
 
mikepage said:
It's "Me high; chicks SenT me high." Sheesh!

My wife has two colleagues who arrived in Fargo from Hungary yesterday. they'll be at my house tonight. I will ask them to pronounce the name and I'll report how close it is to either of these.
[...]
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OK I accosted the Hungarians in my kitchen, whipped out a piece of paper with the letters,

M I H A L Y C S I K S Z E N T M I H A L Y I

and asked how it was pronounced. I was skeptical about just how close the cheater phrase would be.

They're response? clear as can be?

ME HIGH CHEEK SENT ME HIGH EE
 
As somebody who has his Bachelors in psychology, I don't have a very high opinion of the "science" of psychology. I thought "Pleasures ..." was a bunch of psychological gibberish. I would expect the same from this unless he is talking about the what is going on chemically and pysiologically when you're "in the zone". The other stuff is just rationalization. IMO
 
Mike Page, "OK I accosted the Hungarians in my kitchen ..."

That is so cool :) Thank you.
 
Bump and update:

I've been reading "Flow" for the past several days and it's excellent. It's about the more general topic of how to achieve "optimal experience" in life, not just about getting into "the zone" in sports, although that's very closely related.

It reminds me a lot of "Pleasures of Small Motions" in its emphasis on self-fulfilling activity (doing things for their own sake rather than to achieve a separate goal - like playing pool because you love the activity rather than because you want to make money).

I recommend it, and will post a review when I've finished reading it.

pj
chgo
 
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Thanks for the info Patrick.

you seem to genuinely want to help AZers improve their game.

Rep to you
 
BPG24 said:
Thanks for the info Patrick.

you seem to genuinely want to help AZers improve their game.

Rep to you
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Either that or I just love the sound of my own fingers...

Thanks, but I have to admit it surprises me that it's worth rep points. Isn't that what we do here? For me it's one of those "activities for its own sake".

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Either that or I just love the sound of my own fingers...

Thanks, but I have to admit it surprises me that it's worth rep points. Isn't that what we do here? For me it's one of those "activities for its own sake".
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Well I think your genuine efforts to help people around here stand out; you're one of the handful of most useful and interesting posters, imo. I was going to give you rep for it following the lead of BPG24, but then I noticed that punctuation outside the quotation mark again...... So fagedaboutit....
 
mikepage said:
Well I think your genuine efforts to help people around here stand out; you're one of the handful of most useful and interesting posters, imo. I was going to give you rep for it following the lead of BPG24, but then I noticed that punctuation outside the quotation mark again...... So fagedaboutit....
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I like a guy with standards.

pj
chgo

P.S. Whaddya mean "punctuation outside the quotation mark"?!
 
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