Put Money Into Existing Table or Upgrade?

[JayB93]

New floor and decor going into our game room. We have a table that in my opinion not very well constructed. 3pc floating slates no screws to hold in place. Rails have threaded inserts that bolt up from the bottom. All had started to pull out and the rails wobbled. I reclocked and epoxied inserts so the screws would grab fresh wood (shown in pic). The 2x4 going across middle of table that supports underside of length wise 2x4 was cut 1/4" short and is held in place on ends by only 2 framing nails - hence the janky metal brackets I lag screwed in place (zoom in on frame to see). I know they are janky, but the were the right height with no fabrication required.

I can invest $600 to have it set up be a local table mechanic with new felt and pockets. Cheaper than a new table, but floating slates concern me. The table mechanic said he would glue slates to each other and he felt confident it would be ok.

Game room is 16'10" wide x 18'8" long. This table is an oversized 8, which seems right for our room.

Son and I have started to enjoy playing more and we will appreciate an upgrade to the way table was with old felt and a speed bump in the slates. Opinions on just enjoying this table set up to be best it can be or seek a replacement? I'd be happy spending $600 if I had some confidence the floating slates and rail construction won't pose problems down the road. I'd also be willing to spend $1500-2500 if I knew it would be a much better outcome.

Pics below are table and room before updating started, room and table mid game room update and threaded inserts that hold the rails in place - 3 per rail bolts up from the bottom.

I realize this is an opinion post, and I have to make the decision. Just looking for some input. Thanks for your time.

 

[GoldCrown]

First thing would be to make contact with a 1st class mechanic and chat with them. That is everything. What are you looking for? Simple recreational grade table (nothing wrong with that). Try to do it right at this point. Buy once cry once...If you can handle up to $2500.... maybe do some research....might be able to locate a good condition player that'll service you well for years....

 

[Nyquil]

I am with gold crown on this one. You can score some really sweet deals. Sometimes people buy a really nice table and it just sits. I would look around and also +1 on advise above having a grade A mechanic is paramount. They are hard to come by.

 

[JayB93]

I am in Dallas Fort Worth area. I talked to a table mechanic who was familiar with this table (a McIntyre built local). Place that builds custom cues referred me to him. I check the mechanic forum here and the only guy listed in Texas has a few stains on his reputation that were not hard to find even within this forum. The guy I talked to was suggesting something like a reconditioned Olhausen with new rails and felt for about $1500. He had one or two on the line. Didn’t look much better than what I have except probably a better slate and rail retention design. Worth $900 more than setting up my table proper and with new felt and pockets??

I agree with buy once cry once especially with the hassle of getting a table delivered and set up in upstairs room. I’d Iike to only do this once.

 

[Banger]

Did you try Barry Emerson? He is a mechanic in the DFW area.

(214)-734-0183

 

[book collector]

New floor and decor going into our game room. We have a table that in my opinion not very well constructed. 3pc floating slates no screws to hold in place. Rails have threaded inserts that bolt up from the bottom. All had started to pull out and the rails wobbled. I reclocked and epoxied inserts so the screws would grab fresh wood (shown in pic). The 2x4 going across middle of table that supports underside of length wise 2x4 was cut 1/4" short and is held in place on ends by only 2 framing nails - hence the janky metal brackets I lag screwed in place (zoom in on frame to see). I know they are janky, but the were the right height with no fabrication required.

I can invest $600 to have it set up be a local table mechanic with new felt and pockets. Cheaper than a new table, but floating slates concern me. The table mechanic said he would glue slates to each other and he felt confident it would be ok.

Game room is 16'10" wide x 18'8" long. This table is an oversized 8, which seems right for our room.

Son and I have started to enjoy playing more and we will appreciate an upgrade to the way table was with old felt and a speed bump in the slates. Opinions on just enjoying this table set up to be best it can be or seek a replacement? I'd be happy spending $600 if I had some confidence the floating slates and rail construction won't pose problems down the road. I'd also be willing to spend $1500-2500 if I knew it would be a much better outcome.

Pics below are table and room before updating started, room and table mid game room update and threaded inserts that hold the rails in place - 3 per rail bolts up from the bottom.

I realize this is an opinion post, and I have to make the decision. Just looking for some input. Thanks for your time.

In my opinion the rail bolts are always going to be the weak spot, they pulled out once and will pull out again. I would glue hardwood dowels pre drilled undersized for the insert, into the hole, then put the insert into that. If done right , the dowel will never pull out and the insert should be 10 times more solid. Now, If a gorilla starts cranking on it they can destroy anything , but the pressed board just doesn't have any strength to hold fasteners. especially metal ones! I would keep that table if you had fun playing on it before.
I don't know what the mechnic is talking about glueing the rails together , if he just does the seam , that won't do much and you may make it so the table can never come apart. Is there room on the frame to place wedges to hold the slates in place in at least 1 direction?
Looking at the bed , I think you might be able to just put a couple of wooden dowels against each edge slate , cut them below the rail height and bolt the rails right over them , They only need to sit up about 1/4 inch to hold the slate otherwise they might break the rail or pull out an insert when you tighten it down.

 

[JayB93]

Did you try Barry Emerson? He is a mechanic in the DFW area.

(214)-734-0183

That is who I have been talking to. He has been super generous with his time on the phone and input. I've been impressed with him. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't trying to have him chrome plate a turd and then still be unhappy with the outcome.

 

[JayB93]

In my opinion the rail bolts are always going to be the weak spot, they pulled out once and will pull out again. I would glue hardwood dowels pre drilled undersized for the insert, into the hole, then put the insert into that. If done right , the dowel will never pull out and the insert should be 10 times more solid. Now, If a gorilla starts cranking on it they can destroy anything , but the pressed board just doesn't have any strength to hold fasteners. especially metal ones! I would keep that table if you had fun playing on it before.
I don't know what the mechnic is talking about glueing the rails together , if he just does the seam , that won't do much and you may make it so the table can never come apart. Is there room on the frame to place wedges to hold the slates in place in at least 1 direction?
Looking at the bed , I think you might be able to just put a couple of wooden dowels against each edge slate , cut them below the rail height and bolt the rails right over them , They only need to sit up about 1/4 inch to hold the slate otherwise they might break the rail or pull out an insert when you tighten it down.

I'm not quite sure I follow the dowel insert for the threaded inserts. However, the wood is not pressed board - it is solid wood though I think pine and not a hardwood. I really gooped the epoxy into the pocket the inserts are mounted into and reclocked them so I was putting screws into new wood instead of back into the same holes. Trying to give it an adhesive and mechanical bond. Does it change your opinion knowing I am not working with press board?

Regarding the glueing, that was not for the rails. I meant gluing the seams between the 3pcs of slate.

I can see where wedges could be used to shim and secure the slates on the perimeter. There is not a location to put a dowel or a screw to hold the slates in place. The slates have 3 holes on each side for the rail bolts to pass through. Whoever built the table drilled the bolt holes through the wood frame the same size as the holes through the slate - about one inch in diameter. I guess to allow for slop/adjustment. If they had drilled the holes in the frame for the bolts to pass through at 1/2" diameter then there would be a little wood there to use to insert dowels to keep slates from shifting. Here is a close up of the massive holes the bolts pass through. Whoever drilled them didn't use a backer board, so there is blow out on the bottom side of these holes. They really goobered it up. Would have taken extra 5 minutes to do it right. Regular fender washers will just deform into the space created by the blown out wood when tightening the bolts. I located some oversize metal plates to use with the bolts instead of thin fender washers. The plates are large enough to not deform under bolt compression, which I think will help.

I'll just have to trust that Barry will intervene with either a solution or some words of caution if he sees something that is severely problematic.

 

[GoldCrown]

More thoughts. Maybe the installer will give you a few hundred for your current table. Also the room size is perfect for a 9’ table.

 

[Buzzard II]

I had a brand new furniture grade table that played fine. Two years later I bit the bullet and replaced it with a near mint condition GC4. That I keep until death. And that is what I would recommend. But, you say it's going upstairs. It may very well be that the floor joists and over all house construction is not up to the task of a pro grade table. There might be enough movement that it won't matter having a better table. The extra weight might even be a problem.

If this mechanic is really trustworthy go with the recommendation after his consideration given the upstairs gameroom. If you ever get a house with a suitable basement and solid slab floor, then go big.

 

[JayB93]

I had a brand new furniture grade table that played fine. Two years later I bit the bullet and replaced it with a near mint condition GC4. That I keep until death. And that is what I would recommend. But, you say it's going upstairs. It may very well be that the floor joists and over all house construction is not up to the task of a pro grade table. There might be enough movement that it won't matter having a better table. The extra weight might even be a problem.

If this mechanic is really trustworthy go with the recommendation after his consideration given the upstairs gameroom. If you ever get a house with a suitable basement and solid slab floor, then go big.

Really great point! This table frame is very light given it's all pine construction. Probably several hundred pounds lighter than a pro grade table. I'll see what mechanic has to say when he gets here later this week. We are just excited to be getting our pool room back.

 

[book collector]

Solid pine is better than glued sawdust but not as good as hardwood. I'm sure your fix will be fine if no one goes animal on the wrench.
I'm not a fan of gluing the slate edges , for a bunch of reasons.
The mechanic should know more than me, so if he thinks it can be fixed well enough , I would go that route.

 

[rexus31]

What's your goal? Are you wanting to keep the furniture table look or is a commercial grade table what you are after? Either way, you can do better than what you have.

 

[JayB93]

What's your goal? Are you wanting to keep the furniture table look or is a commercial grade table what you are after? Either way, you can do better than what you have.

Probably furniture table that is more about playing performance than super fancy ornate looks - but isn't 1200lbs. As @Buzzard II pointed out, that may not be wise for second floor game room. I'd bet current table is under 600lbs. I tilted it to one side to put sliders under the legs to be able to move it around - then decided it was unwise to do that and disassembled. I'm strong but not that skrong.

 

[measureman]

I would put cloth on the table,not felt.

 

[rexus31]

Probably furniture table that is more about playing performance than super fancy ornate looks - but isn't 1200lbs. As @Buzzard II pointed out, that may not be wise for second floor game room. I'd bet current table is under 600lbs. I tilted it to one side to put sliders under the legs to be able to move it around - then decided it was unwise to do that and disassembled. I'm strong but not that skrong.

One of the biggest factors in table playability is weight. That's one of the reasons why commercial grade (professional) tables play better than home tables. Are you a serious player or just a casual player? Weight could be a factor on the second floor but it depends on the construction and materials used.

 

[JayB93]

I would put cloth on the table,not felt.

Thank you for that clarification. It would be Championship Tour Edition cloth. I misspoke in first post.

 

[SlateMan]

Check Craigslist. Give it about 2-3 months. You will find a steal of a deal. Don't jump at the first table that pops up. I found an 8 ft Brunswick (the Marlboro table) for about $300. I still had the Craigslist search in my bookmark bar and I would hit it almost every day. A week later I scored a 9ft Gold Crown IV for $400 and the guy delivered it (he had it in a truck and for $25 bucks I talked him into bringing it to me).

 

[Banger]

My GC III has been in my upstairs game room for close to 8 years, and it's not a problem. It is heavy, but it's not more than say, 3 or 4 fat guys sitting on a couch watching football.

Prior to the GC III, I had a furniture style table in that room for about 14 years. So, I suspect your floor will be fine, unless your home builder really cheaped out on the structure.

 

[JayB93]

One of the biggest factors in table playability is weight. That's one of the reasons why commercial grade (professional) tables play better than home tables. Are you a serious player or just a casual player? Weight could be a factor on the second floor but it depends on the construction and materials used.

Casual for sure, but my 14yo son is learning to play and I don't mind giving him the opportunity to explore the game on decent equipment. We are blessed enough to be able to do things like that and I enjoy being with him (and our daughter) to learn whatever interests them (within reason). I suppose I remember learning lots of new activities with old and worn out equipment, and I think in some ways that can hinder progress. I'm more of a golfer and I remember learning to play with adult clubs not cut down and never regripped in their entire life. I don't mind investing in decent equipment and some instruction so good fundamentals can be established, which is what we did for both kids with respect to learning to play golf.

Maybe I can just hang 200lbs of weights on this table and call it good??