Quality Maple

too many low rpi shafts from the canucks.the price is right but too many of the shafts are unusable for me.even if you buy their highest grade they do not sort for rpi and you end up getting lots of shaft under 10rpi.i have had better luck with a guy from Michigan that was posted here before.

i would love to have a place to buy 20rpi and up shaft for a reasonable price.
 
masonh said:
i would love to have a place to buy 20rpi and up shaft for a reasonable price.
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Everyone would. But what would the guy do with the other 90% of the wood? That is the key. If he can't find a Cue Tech or someone like that to take the lower grade stuff for a dollar or two each, how can he produce the higher quality stuff for a decent price?
I used to have a guy in Michigan who was picking the high end stuff for me at a good price. Then he lost one of the largest USA cuemakers who had been buying 60,000 pieces a year from him. I was getting about 4000 pieces of tight grain fairly clean wood a year from him. We were pretty much his only two cue wood customers. Then the big USA cuemaker said $1.25 was too much to pay and went to Canada for less than a $1 a blank. I was paying a few times the $1.25 he was charging the big guy, but he was pulling me the top grade wood out. It was a win win for both of us.
 
The other 90% will go into the kiln. I will be hand picking the logs going into milling. I can look at the logs for milling and know the ring count. The way I will be cutting the wood will reduce waste and time producing unwanted grades. The 15 ring + range will be min that I will offer. I would like to see everyones opinion of min ring spec for what they consider the best grade. Once I get going I will send some samples out. I talked with someone in a pm that said 31" would be good, anyone else?

What I will be doing is small quanities per year. I am not looking to make 100-200,000 shafts per year. With this count I would have no way of grading before I mill. I am looking at 20,000 to maybe 40,000 max in full production. I will use this 1st stage grading to save money. I am not buying logs 16' long and milling. My pieces will be cut to 36" in the woods. The best piece only will be selected for shafts. My production will be lumber for cues only. Orders filled will NOT contain lower grades. Each piece will be stamped dated with moisture level and I will take returns on all pieces not to grade. I know what I look for in a cuemaker and that is what I will offer as a maple supplier.
 
I would like some samples when you get some done. 31 inches works for me.

I have been thru ALOT of suppliers who promise the world and the product does not live up to the hype. If you can deliver what you say then you will be a buisy man. I hope you can.
 
most dowells i get are 30" but 31" would of course work too.

Everyone would. But what would the guy do with the other 90% of the wood? That is the key.
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he's offering and asking for input.i could care less what he does with the rest of the wood.if he is selling 15+rpi straight grain wood at a reasonable price,i am buying.
 
masonh said:
most dowells i get are 30" but 31" would of course work too.



he's offering and asking for input.i could care less what he does with the rest of the wood.if he is selling 15+rpi straight grain wood at a reasonable price,i am buying.
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The question is "reasonable price". Many on this forum probably are expecting reasonable price to be a dollar or such more than what they are paying for the stuff they are buying now. I can easily see the cost to run to 30.00 or more a blank for 25 ring count up on clear, dry, straight grain blanks. Many will bulk at that price. I am very happy with the Canadian supplier I have at present and will continue doing business with them but if something like this is offered I would get maybe 30 - 50 or so to put back as a premium offering for those who want a high ring count and are willing to pay for them.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
The question is "reasonable price". Many on this forum probably are expecting reasonable price to be a dollar or such more than what they are paying for the stuff they are buying now. I can easily see the cost to run to 30.00 or more a blank for 25 ring count up on clear, dry, straight grain blanks. Many will bulk at that price. I am very happy with the Canadian supplier I have at present and will continue doing business with them but if something like this is offered I would get maybe 30 - 50 or so to put back as a premium offering for those who want a high ring count and are willing to pay for them.

Dick
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I will need to know what people will pay. Seems they can't get the product without buying lots and picking. So a big question will be what is reasonable. The product will be high ring count, straight grain, clear maple or send it back.... Pricing? I am going to start a poll
 
My guess

Jason,

Just my guess for what it is worth, I think you are going to have to be able to market them for $15-$20 each in lots of 10-12 with the right of return of culls to have a market. I get maybe 15% quality shafts with another 30-40% usable for sneakies and replacement shafts paying $6 a shaft blank. I'm planning to go into the wonder blank market myself with a pretty economical to make blank that will let me save another 20% or more of the wood and still turn out a quality product.

A general comment to everyone, how the planks are sawn does indeed impact the quality of the shaft all of the way through to turned rounds and the reason is simple, the way the grain is oriented in the blank. There is more grain run off with the boards cut for maximum board production. My dream is to get my hands on maple logs like Jason is talking about and split them into quarters, not saw them in this step, and then cut them into over sized pieces from there for second stage drying, final cut into blanks and third stage drying.

A really premium shaft production would split the maple into the smallest practical size before turning which would allow optimum grain orientation. Of course the labor and waste both would probably be huge with this process. Perhaps not though, cypress and white oak shingles are made in a very similar manner.

Hu



Jason Robichaud said:
I will need to know what people will pay. Seems they can't get the product without buying lots and picking. So a big question will be what is reasonable. The product will be high ring count, straight grain, clear maple or send it back.... Pricing? I am going to start a poll
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masonh said:
too many low rpi shafts from the canucks.the price is right but too many of the shafts are unusable for me.even if you buy their highest grade they do not sort for rpi and you end up getting lots of shaft under 10rpi.i have had better luck with a guy from Michigan that was posted here before.

i would love to have a place to buy 20rpi and up shaft for a reasonable price.
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Mason don't know who you purchased your shaft wood from in Canada, however, I do not find that to be the case at all. In fact many of the top cue makers in the country are also buying their shaft wood from Canada, I wish I could drop the name of the company I am buying from but I sworn to secrecy. But, I will say this many of the big cuemakers are buying 1000 plus dowels at a time, and some are going together and buying even more. Out of the last 100 dowels I purchased at least 50% were 15 GPI + and another 20% were 12 GPI + out of the remaining 30% at least another 15% could be used for break shafts. I would even bet that your supplier is buying directly from or from some one who is buying from the so called Canucks!!!:smile:

Take care Mason
 
i am sure it is same people you are buying from craig.it really isn't a secret any longer.it seems lots of people know about them.also all you need to buy is 500 to get the deal.500-2000 cost the same per shaft.for the money the ring count is good,i mean where else can you get shaft wood like that for a little over $5 each.myself,i am looking for something better.i am looking for 100% of shafts with 15rpi or better,but if you are content with them that is all that matters.

my U.S. supplier deals directly with the mills and has been around for a long time and sells to many of the high end cuemakers.again though there are many low ring count shafts to contend with.i do like his stuff better than the Canadian supplier though.he seems to have straighter and more consistent grained shafts than them and he is about $1 more per shaft but the shipping is less being in MI.the shafts are definitely different and he isn't getting them from the Canadian supplier.

i think $30 is a little outrageous unless i am getting to use 99% of them and the rpi is all 20-40,but for 100 15+ rpi shafts i would pay $15 and still expect to have to cull 20-30% or so for run out or sugar or whatever.couldn't imagine paying anything higher than that or you could just go up north and buy a big lot and use 50% of them and still be paying only $10.i can also buy air dried high ring count 1.25"x4"x32 boards for $100 that make awesome shafts,but after you cull one or two of those you are really paying a premium.

A general comment to everyone, how the planks are sawn does indeed impact the quality of the shaft all of the way through to turned rounds and the reason is simple, the way the grain is oriented in the blank.
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i agree
 
manwon said:
Thanks Joey, I will continue buying my shaft wood from Canada and take my chances, so far they have been mighty good.
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Not meaning to suggest you change sources, but just to make something clear, Jason is from Canada. While he may currently reside in Calgary, I believe that he previously lived in New Brunswick (please correct me if I'm wrong Jason, I'm just recalling details from old posts). There are significant maple stands in New Brunswick (it's right alongside Quebec, another fine source of maple and related products), and if Jason has a source for good maple, a trusted mill, and the knowledge to grade for cue shafts, I might be inclined to give him the benefit of doubt.

I'm not a cuemaker but I do have a nice maple floor milled in Quebec from good Canadian timber. :thumbup:

Good luck Jason.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
Not meaning to suggest you change sources, but just to make something clear, Jason is from Canada. While he may currently reside in Calgary, I believe that he previously lived in New Brunswick (please correct me if I'm wrong Jason, I'm just recalling details from old posts). There are significant maple stands in New Brunswick (it's right alongside Quebec, another fine source of maple and related products), and if Jason has a source for good maple, a trusted mill, and the knowledge to grade for cue shafts, I might be inclined to give him the benefit of doubt.

I'm not a cuemaker but I do have a nice maple floor milled in Quebec from good Canadian timber. :thumbup:

Good luck Jason.

Dave
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I was born in NB and lived there up until 3 years ago. I owned a logging company there for years and also owned a lumber company. This area of the country produces the best hardwood in the world for bats, cues, brooms, flooring and all sorts. The winter slows the growth and increases ring count. If you live in Quebec and know lumber, then you know the ring count of 20+ is there. PQ have very close to the same quality hardwood as NB. The middle of the trees, smaller trees, have the lower ring counts like 5-10 per inch. If you get a tree 12" plus on the stump, you can get really high ring count. I will be cutting the logs, milling, drying and grading. From the wood to the maker I will have total control. After logging thousands of logs I can look at bark on the tree and get a good feel for the lumber going to be produced.

I would like to see if some makers here would sell me or take pictures of their best shaft wood. I could send the shaft back.
 
I would love to be able to get high ring count, wet maple blanks. I would prefer to do the drying myself as I prefer the honey color, and stiffness of a really well dried blank as opposed to the white cra...stuff that I can find now.
 
shakes said:
I would love to be able to get high ring count, wet maple blanks. I would prefer to do the drying myself as I prefer the honey color, and stiffness of a really well dried blank as opposed to the white cra...stuff that I can find now.
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Summer cuts will give you the honey color.
 
Jason when you start producing rounds squares or boards I would like to buy a sample. I am always looking for a good supplier. I would like to start with at least 50 pieces @ 31". It should get me a pretty good feel for what kind of product you have.
If you would like to discuss this at greater lengths Give me a call.

John
 
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