Quarter ball aiming system?

[bizzy]

I saw the 14.1 tape from John Schmidt where he ran 245 balls. I saw him using the pivot aiming system. But he's not lining up on the inside of the cue ball and then pivot to the cue ball center. He lines on the outside of the cue ball. So it looks like when cutting a ball to the left he lines up somewhere right on the cue ball then when he strokes the ball he hits it somewhere in the center. And he is not the only one who does this.
How does this work with aiming somewhere outside and then pivot?

 

[Drew]

The best drill I know: CB on foot rail in the middle of the table. OB on foot spot. Now pocket the OB in either one of the corner pockets. This is a 3/4 aim. Now move the OB dead center of the table. Keep the CB on the foot rail. this is a 1/2 ball. Now move the OB to the head string again keeping it in the center of the table. This is a 1/4 hit. I don't use this aiming system and I don't like it, but some old guy I play with taught it to me. Hope this helps.

 

[RiverCity]

Here is what the system involves, the yellow outline is the cueball, notice the edge of the cueball in relation to the object ball.
Full ball hit, 0 degree cut

3/4 ball hit, 15 degree cut

1/2 ball hit, 30 degree cut

1/4 ball hit, 45 degree cut

and lastly the thin cut shot, 80 degrees or so (this is one that changes a little here and there.)

These pics should help you visualize the hits a little better, just remember you are aiming with the edge of the cueball.
Chuck

 

[jondrums]

here's a training aid I developed

check this out:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=44853

The idea is that this little paper template will help you develop an eye for the 1/4 ball aiming technique. I printed one out, cut it out, and keep it in my case for practice session everyonce in a while.

For some reason nobody was at all interested in this the first time I posted it, but perhaps this time a few people will discover it and make use of it. I felt hurt at the time that nobody cared about it, but of course its just because stuff can fall off the first page of this forum so quickly!

I find the fractional ball aiming techniques particularly useful for table-length shots, shots where the CB and OB are very close to each other, and especially for safety play where the OB is near the rail. In one practice session you can forever memorize what kind of hit to make on a OB near a rail for a few common safety shots. For example, on a 3/4 ball stun hit, the OB and CB travel about the same distance after contact!

Jon

 

[tigerallenyim]

First thanks guys, I'm glad I didn't get attacked for asking about another aiming system.
My question is now what is six angles rather than 5? I didn't know that there was more.


Pete

Yep.... A point in the reference of time. J/K! (Watched Stargate too many times)

 

[seymore15074]

check this out:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=44853

The idea is that this little paper template will help you develop an eye for the 1/4 ball aiming technique. I printed one out, cut it out, and keep it in my case for practice session everyonce in a while.

Looks good. If anyone wants to learn this system, I'm sure that this would be a HUGE help.

 

[Vahmurka]

thanks everyone for advice, I think I will have to memorize the picture of 1/4 hit eventually Like I said, the reason being I don't utilize that system, preferring to find the contact point. Since it is so tiny spot I don't really think that quarter ball hits are able to cover all the variety of shots present in pool. But jondrums very well mentioned the range of situations where it could help, and an "aiming trainer" could be very useful. Thanks.

 

[jondrums]

There does seem to be some confusion about 1/4 ball and 3/4 ball hit (at least for me!). RiverCity's pictures show the 1/4 ball hit to be the thinner, while I've always thought that the 3/4 hit is the thinner, but I have no doubt that I could just be wrong.

Freddy's bank pool book has it the same way RiverCity presented it - as a function of "ball overlap." I've always thought of it as a function of how far from center ball to aim, which is exactly the opposite.

In other words, the way I use it, is if I am hitting center ball on the cue ball, I sight down the shaft of my cue and make it point directly at the edge of the object ball to get a 1/2 ball hit.

Jon

 

[jondrums]

BTW, I posted an updated aim-training template which corrects my error with 1/4 vs. 3/4 ball nomenclature. I also added a tutorial image onto the template to help explain how to use it.

Hope this helps someone else!
Jon

 

[TheConArtist]

I saw the 14.1 tape from John Schmidt where he ran 245 balls. I saw him using the pivot aiming system. But he's not lining up on the inside of the cue ball and then pivot to the cue ball center. He lines on the outside of the cue ball. So it looks like when cutting a ball to the left he lines up somewhere right on the cue ball then when he strokes the ball he hits it somewhere in the center. And he is not the only one who does this.
How does this work with aiming somewhere outside and then pivot?

The Pivot System has got to be the best system i have come across. You can just address the same half of the cueball each time on every shot, you just need to make your own adjustments. As i address the right half of the cueball as i am a left handed player so its more comfortable this way. And the cut shots to the left are easier for me to pivot then right cuts.

 

[JimS]

The Pivot System has got to be the best system i have come across. You can just address the same half of the cueball each time on every shot, you just need to make your own adjustments. As i address the right half of the cueball as i am a left handed player so its more comfortable this way. And the cut shots to the left are easier for me to pivot then right cuts.

I don't know the Pivot System Where is there an explanatioin of the Pivot System?

 

[BRKNRUN]

Yeah, think of it like a flat picture on tv or something...not 3d. The object ball is just a "width"...hitting a 1/4 of the object ball would result with the cue ball covering 1/4 of the object ball. Does that paint a better picture of this?

Anyway, that is exactly why I would say just hit the spot.

I will go ahead and open a can of worms here...

Anyone can find the "spot" on the OB...but how do you determine what "spot" on the CB hits the spot on the OB?

The answer to that question is part of the beauty of the HH 3-Line system.

It has been discussed "extensivly" on both this site and the other one.

This thread is only touching the "frost" on the tip of the Icebeg of aiming and the relationship between CB and OB contact.

I would suggest searches of the following

Hal Houl
3-line
Shish Ke Bob (basically reverse aim and pivot)
small ball
Center to Center
Ghost Ball
Stick Aiming

That should get you started in the "mass" of aiming systems......

I think if you take the time to look, you will find that the 3-line (aka 1/4 ball aiming system) is akin to the Ghost Ball aiming. It is aiming 101 and only opens the door to truely understanding what aiming really is.

 

[Cameron Smith]

My question is now what is six angles rather than 5? I didn't know that there was more.


Pete

There is the

Full ball
3/4 ball
1/2 ball
1/4 ball

and then two more thin cut shots, like a 1/8 ball hit and that edge to edge hit.

This covers all of the straight forward pots you will find on a pool table. As you become more comfortable with the shots it will be easy to aim a little bit to the left or right to cheat the pocket.

 

[seymore15074]

Anyone can find the "spot" on the OB...but how do you determine what "spot" on the CB hits the spot on the OB?

Trial and error. Just like *any* aiming system. Hit enough balls, and you won't need them anymore; that's just the way it is. I don't know what else to say!

 

[Slider]

Anyone can find the "spot" on the OB...but how do you determine what "spot" on the CB hits the spot on the OB?

Here's how I do it...

From the shooting position, I look at a point (green) on the arc at the top edge of the OB directly above the "aim" point (red), and match that with the corresponding spot on the arc on the cueball.

That gives me an image of two overlapping balls. It's an outgrowth of "Ghost Ball", I suppose.

Ken

 

[seymore15074]

Here's how I do it...
View attachment 35545
From the shooting position, I look at a point (green) on the arc at the top edge of the OB directly above the "aim" point (red), and match that with the corresponding spot on the arc on the cueball.
View attachment 35546
That gives me an image of two overlapping balls. It's an outgrowth of "Ghost Ball", I suppose.

Ken

Amazing, I have never thought of it like this... I have thought about the opposite side of the object ball being the point on the cue ball, though...

 

[BRKNRUN]

Here's how I do it...
View attachment 35545
From the shooting position, I look at a point (green) on the arc at the top edge of the OB directly above the "aim" point (red), and match that with the corresponding spot on the arc on the cueball.
View attachment 35546
That gives me an image of two overlapping balls. It's an outgrowth of "Ghost Ball", I suppose.

Ken

Using your diagram (it is really close) Use the HH- 3-line aiming you will notice that this shot is the (Center CB to Edge OB Aim).

The thing you should now notice is that the "aim piont" of the HH 3-Line system is not the actual contact points between the two balls. (The actual contact points are where you have diagramed)

With the HH system you almost don't even need to know where the "actual contact points" are.

NOTE: I don't advocate only relying on the 3-line system aim points.

I acutally use a system of "Center to Center" combined with the 3-line & Channel system.

The 3-line system is what I consider the DOS of aiming systems. Every other GUI aiming system seems to relate back to those. (just as your diagram has shown)

 

[TheConArtist]

with the diagrams posted above is how i see the cueball, so it being a right cut shot i just basically use and aim with the left cueball being the one with the green dot, hard to put in words but hey it works for me.

For the Pivot system JimS, it can also be called Aim and Pivot, BHE etc... A simple search for backhand or pivot terms there are pages full of discussion on it. Colin has made some great images for understanding it and also having a video on CueTv about it.

So by the means of trying to confuse everyone again LOL, my thoughts on seeing the cueballs the way i can. If you notice the left cueball in the image above the right edge is cleary being viewed by the right eye. Closing the right eye you view the cueball as a solid cueball but you are viewing it as a center cueball now. So personally viewing the cueballs as a double image and understanding what eye views which cueball in relationship to the objectball is very helpful, as you can always use your dominant eye without worrying about if the cue is under your chin or eye etc...Again sorry to confuse you as i know i have done it alot in the past i just wish i can better explain it. So either you aim by feel or use a aiming system, you are all great in my book. I for one try to make it difficult but not hard, and stick by my systems a hundred percent. But not without the help of Koop, DM, Hal and Ron V. Thanks guys.

 

[Deadon]

Here's how I do it...
View attachment 35545
From the shooting position, I look at a point (green) on the arc at the top edge of the OB directly above the "aim" point (red), and match that with the corresponding spot on the arc on the cueball.
View attachment 35546
That gives me an image of two overlapping balls. It's an outgrowth of "Ghost Ball", I suppose.

Ken

Ken;

Do you then move your eye/head, in relation to the cue, as the aiming point changes? If you didn't, you wouldn't get your overlapping image. It would be distorted unless you moved your eye position.

Mike

 

[Deadon]

with the diagrams posted above is how i see the cueball, so it being a right cut shot i just basically use and aim with the left cueball being the one with the green dot, hard to put in words but hey it works for me.

For the Pivot system JimS, it can also be called Aim and Pivot, BHE etc... A simple search for backhand or pivot terms there are pages full of discussion on it. Colin has made some great images for understanding it and also having a video on CueTv about it.

CA;

I believe the Aim and Pivot or BHE systems (if thats the right word), is not an aiming system, but a system for applying english in certain situations. Applying english and aiming, although related, are different concerns. OMHO, FWIW.

Mike