Question about buying a Pre Owned Cue. Expertise NEEDED....

[Bruce S. de Lis]

How do you know the Story Told when someone is trying to SELL YOU A CUE is Real? I was in Metro Sports a few days ago during the day, a guy at a table near me approaches everyone about a Cue he has For Sale.

Story he tell is the Cue is “NEW, Un-played, and Un-chalked”. So my question to the sophisticated Cue Buyer here is how do you know if the story is true.

Cue appears New, Never Chalked, or Hit. But could the Tips be New. Cue Freshly Waxed. Could the Shaft be Shinned up New Car looking with Q-Smooth.

Could this Cue be USED, and NOT Abused, and Freshened Up to make it APPEAR NEW?

How could the novice buy Know the Story of the “NEW CUE”, is not TRUE.

 

[GeraldG]

How do you know the Story Told when someone is trying to SELL YOU A CUE is Real? I was in Metro Sports a few days ago during the day, a guy at a table near me approaches everyone about a Cue he has For Sale.

Story he tell is the Cue is “NEW, Un-played, and Un-chalked”. So my question to the sophisticated Cue Buyer here is how do you know if the story is true.

Cue appears New, Never Chalked, or Hit. But could the Tips be New. Cue Freshly Waxed. Could the Shaft be Shinned up New Car looking with Q-Smooth.

Could this Cue be USED, and NOT Abused, and Freshened Up to make it APPEAR NEW?

How could the novice buy Know the Story of the “NEW CUE”, is not TRUE.

Let me ask you this...if you are buying a cue to play with and you like the cue and the price, what difference does it make? As soon as you chalk it to play, it's not "unchalked" any more anyway.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Let me ask you this...if you are buying a cue to play with and you like the cue and the price, what difference does it make? As soon as you chalk it to play, it's not "unchalked" any more anyway.

Well I will not go into GREAT DETAIL, but something about the STORY was Fishy. I was not interested in the Phoenix Cue, but I had a VERY BAD FEELING about something I could not put my Finger upon.

What you said, "Let me ask you this...if you are buying a cue to play with and you like the cue and the price, what difference does it make? As soon as you chalk it to play, it's not "unchalked" any more anyway."


What you said is VERY TRUE.... My question was of a General Nature, and Hoping to Get an Answer from someone who Buy & Sells more High End Cues....

 

[Mr. Wilson]

The bottom line for me ( assuming a certain degree of BS ) would be whether the cue is worth to me what they are asking.

You wouldn't hang on every word a used car salesman said, would you?

He's got a product to move. He may embelish the story to help it along.

If I were selling a cue, you bet it would already be cleaned and waxed and looking as pretty as I could make it. ( B.S is optional ) .

 

[GeraldG]

Well I will not go into GREAT DETAIL, but something about the STORY was Fishy. I was not interested in the Phoenix Cue, but I had a VERY BAD FEELING about something I could not put my Finger upon.

What you said, "Let me ask you this...if you are buying a cue to play with and you like the cue and the price, what difference does it make? As soon as you chalk it to play, it's not "unchalked" any more anyway."


What you said is VERY TRUE.... My question was of a General Nature, and Hoping to Get an Answer from someone who Buy & Sells more High End Cues....

Was your bad feeling that there was something amiss about the cue or the guy selling it?

I do buy and sell some fairly high-end cues sometimes...not real high-end, I guess..but in the $2,000.00 to $5,000.00 range. I've never seen a Phoenix that I would really call a high-end cue, though. Andy Holt was making those...I think I heard that he went out of business a couple of years ago. I think most of them were in the $300-$400 range....maybe a little more. Richard Black does have a model he calls the Phoenix...if it was a Black Phoenix that's a little closer to "high-end".....I think in the $1,500.00 range.

If someone wants to misrepresent a cue as "new-unchalked", they can make it awfully hard to tell if they know what they are doing, especially if the butt has no dings or finish defects and the wrap is clean. The shaft can be cleaned up in many cases and finished, new tip installed and it's just about impossible to tell.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

You wouldn't hang on every word a used car salesman said, would you?

If I were selling a cue, you bet it would already be cleaned and waxed and looking as pretty as I could make it. ( B.S is optional ) .

I have sold of a Few Pool things One on One, and using this and other Forums.

I have tried to REPRESENT what I had HONESTLY. I have Tried to Treat the buyer, like would like to be treater if I was a BUYER.

Was your bad feeling that there was something amiss about the cue or the guy selling it?

Sellers story seem Bogus, and he had Sales Receipts that seem Bogus, and INFLATED....Price he PAID....

 

[classiccues]

Bruce,
Thats the problem when you are buying cues. You get all kinds of stories and you need to decipher whats real and whats not real. Usually if a story is to good to be true, it is. I once bought a few South Wests from a guy I trust, he told me they were all original. (Thats what another seller told him) So I took him for his word. Turns out a few were refinished by Proficient. When I found out, him and I had a little "talk". He went back to the seller and they adjusted his price and then we adjusted mine and that was that.
You know with a good cleaning shafts can look brand new, a good polish or refinish and the butt will be like new to. But if you want to get into very detailed inspection here is what I recommend. Look inside the shaft threads, see if there is any dirt accumulation, (works best on wood/wood joints) if the thread is brass it will be dark and tarnished. If the cue has a piloted joint, look inside the joint for dust/dirt/ If its flat faced usually you can see if the joint has been used regularly. If the seller will allow you to remove the bumper its also a good place to look for dirt build up. But remember all this can be cleaned up if the seller really wants to.

Joe

 

[Pizza Bob]

Stolen cue perhaps?

Well I was not interested in the Phoenix Cue, but I had a VERY BAD FEELING about something I could not put my Finger upon.

Bruce:

This thread:

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=17026

mentions a recently stolen Phoenix Cue in Vegas. May be worth contacting them to get some particulars to see if it may be one and the same. Phoenix wasn't around all that long, can't imagine that there are a plethora of them on the market. Just a thought.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Bruce,
Thats the problem when you are buying cues. You get all kinds of stories and you need to decipher whats real and whats not real. Usually if a story is to good to be true, it is. I once bought a few South Wests from a guy I trust, he told me they were all original. (Thats what another seller told him) So I took him for his word. Turns out a few were refinished by Proficient. When I found out, him and I had a little "talk". He went back to the seller and they adjusted his price and then we adjusted mine and that was that.
You know with a good cleaning shafts can look brand new, a good polish or refinish and the butt will be like new to. But if you want to get into very detailed inspection here is what I recommend. Look inside the shaft threads, see if there is any dirt accumulation, (works best on wood/wood joints) if the thread is brass it will be dark and tarnished. If the cue has a piloted joint, look inside the joint for dust/dirt/ If its flat faced usually you can see if the joint has been used regularly. If the seller will allow you to remove the bumper its also a good place to look for dirt build up. But remember all this can be cleaned up if the seller really wants to.

Joe

THANKS Joe, GREAT INFO.....

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Speeking of Cues Ripped Fff

Bruce:

This thread:

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=17026

mentions a recently stolen Phoenix Cue in Vegas. May be worth contacting them to get some particulars to see if it may be one and the same. Phoenix wasn't around all that long, can't imagine that there are a plethora of them on the market. Just a thought.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

Connoley (speled wrong I M Sure) Billiards Supplies in Glendale AZ @ 75 Avenue & Bell Road , recently had an after hour visitors, who stole Two of the Fancy Glass Cue display Cases, 30-36 High Dollar Cues, that had a Retail Value of 25-30 GRAND....

 

[Bob Jewett]

... ]How do you know the Story Told when someone is trying to SELL YOU A CUE is Real? ...

People will gladly lie to you to get your money. Some are very good at this and you will never realise you've been lied to.

It's up to you to judge the value of the cue on your own. If you absolutely must have a cue that has never seen chalk, you need to be in the cuemaker's shop when he is finishing the shafts. Some cue makers actually chalk the cue and take shots with it to see if they screwed up. Some don't bother with a final test.

Personally, I think this "never, ever been chalked" thing is overdone.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Well as I said I have tried to REPRESENT what I had to SELL HONESTLY. I have Tried to Treat the BUYER, like would like to be like to be Treated if I was a BUYER.

Color me Stupid, but that is the WAY I am...

 

[TATE]

How do you know the Story Told when someone is trying to SELL YOU A CUE is Real? I was in Metro Sports a few days ago during the day, a guy at a table near me approaches everyone about a Cue he has For Sale.

Story he tell is the Cue is “NEW, Un-played, and Un-chalked”. So my question to the sophisticated Cue Buyer here is how do you know if the story is true.

Cue appears New, Never Chalked, or Hit. But could the Tips be New. Cue Freshly Waxed. Could the Shaft be Shinned up New Car looking with Q-Smooth.

Could this Cue be USED, and NOT Abused, and Freshened Up to make it APPEAR NEW?

How could the novice buy Know the Story of the “NEW CUE”, is not TRUE.

There were a lot of Phoenix cues that weren't sold when they went out of business, and they did sell for about half of their inflated sticker prices. I think their plain jane model sold for $350 - $400, and the "street" price was $200 - $225.

However, unless it's a rare cue you are putting in a glass case to keep unplayed for many years, if the cue appears to be like new, it doesn't matter if it really is. It won't be after a couple of games.

I was selling new customs for awhile. The maker literally chalked and hit with every cue he made. He wanted to make sure the cue was sound, no strange buzzes or thuds, no deadness. If he didn't like the hit, he would try some different shafts. Then he would clean the cues. I took some pics of a cue with chalk on the tip - never gave it a second thought - and I was accused by one person of selling "used" cues. I explained it and they were OK with it, but I guess technically I was selling test driven cues.

As far as if a cue has been used much, to see if a cue has been played I run my fingers over it. If you can feel any tiny indents in the forearm or butt, it's been played. The other place to really tell is the joint. The jont faces get smudged and discolored from chalk and dust very quickly. Looks closely at the ferrule for lines or streaks. Blue chalk gets into the shaft pores and it's hard to clean completely out without sanding.

A lot of cues are chalked once or twice and put away. I certainly wouldn't let that bother me.

Chris

 

[pete lafond]

If someone wants to misrepresent a cue as "new-unchalked", they can make it awfully hard to tell if they know what they are doing, especially if the butt has no dings or finish defects and the wrap is clean. The shaft can be cleaned up in many cases and finished, new tip installed and it's just about impossible to tell.

Which if it's a cue to play with, it may not be a bad thing at all.

You must come across some pretty sweet cues.

 

[bruin70]

if you can't tell, then you may as well take his word. if the cue is under $1400, and i can't tell, then so what. if it's expensive, then i'll take the time to find out.

look for wear at the joint area,,,at the edges.

look for wear at the curve of the butt plate.

look for wear at the bumper. a worn bumper looks scruffy where it lays on the floor. it should be clean black.

look for wear in the threads of the shaft. you might see dark burnishes. also, the wood in the threads would be kinda shiney and smooth from the pin burnishing it from constant screwing and unscrewing, whereas an unused shaft would have clean and SLIGHTLY rough.

pull out your magnifier and look for scratches, and look at the cue at an angle. the light will catch scratches.

 

[landshark77]

Let me ask you this...if you are buying a cue to play with and you like the cue and the price, what difference does it make? As soon as you chalk it to play, it's not "unchalked" any more anyway.

Or what if the maker of the cue is selling a brand new cue he just built and a potential buyer wants to try it out first. The tip is chalked up and some balls are hit with it...hell maybe a rack or so...the potential buyer, for what ever reason, declines to purchase the cue....is the cue still brand new or is it used???

 

[Jon]

Or what if the maker of the cue is selling a brand new cue he just built and a potential buyer wants to try it out first. The tip is chalked up and some balls are hit with it...hell maybe a rack or so...the potential buyer, for what ever reason, declines to purchase the cue....is the cue still brand new or is it used???

IMO It would be new.
People test drive a car and don't buy it, but does the dealer have to sell it as used?

 

[Fred Agnir]

How do you know the Story Told when someone is trying to SELL YOU A CUE is Real? I was in Metro Sports a few days ago during the day, a guy at a table near me approaches everyone about a Cue he has For Sale.

Story he tell is the Cue is “NEW, Un-played, and Un-chalked”. So my question to the sophisticated Cue Buyer here is how do you know if the story is true.
E.

There is no way we can help you on a forum. Either you know he's lying or not. Either the cue looks new, or not. Even if it looks new, it may not be.

Can you give some more information? What was the cue?

If it doesn't feel good, don't touch it.

Fred

 

[efirkey]

I don't buy or sell cues, but it seems to me that the good cues increase in value regardless if they have been played with or not. I don't think it matters if a cue has been used if it's in great shape, you like it and it shots great.

I'm looking to buy a new or used cue. I have about $500 to spend. What are some good cues to buy at that price range? I don't need any fancy extras (design work). Just a great shooting stick. I currently play with a Mohawk, but it has some internal problems, which is why I want a new stick. I have had two other sticks that played well a McDermott and a Schon. I wish I never got rid of either of those two sticks.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

There is no way we can help you on a forum. Either you know he's lying or not. Either the cue looks new, or not. Even if it looks new, it may not be.

Can you give some more information? What was the cue?

If it doesn't feel good, don't touch it.

Fred

Joe-aka-classiccue gave some GREAT ADVICE IMO. To the Novice Cue buyer.

“Bruce,
Thats the problem when you are buying cues. You get all kinds of stories and you need to decipher whats real and whats not real. Usually if a story is to good to be true, it is. I once bought a few South Wests from a guy I trust, he told me they were all original. (Thats what another seller told him) So I took him for his word. Turns out a few were refinished by Proficient. When I found out, him and I had a little "talk". He went back to the seller and they adjusted his price and then we adjusted mine and that was that.

You know with a good cleaning shafts can look brand new, a good polish or refinish and the butt will be like new to. But if you want to get into very detailed inspection here is what I recommend. Look inside the shaft threads, see if there is any dirt accumulation, (works best on wood/wood joints) if the thread is brass it will be dark and tarnished. If the cue has a piloted joint, look inside the joint for dust/dirt/ If its flat faced usually you can see if the joint has been used regularly. If the seller will allow you to remove the bumper its also a good place to look for dirt build up. But remember all this can be cleaned up if the seller really wants to.

Joe”


The Cue being offered was a Phoenix Cue, not just to me, to several others also