Question about deflection?

L

liakos

Banned
I've been using a predator sneaky Pete with a 314-2 shaft that is 30"! I've been liking the 30" shaft and I don't ever think I will go back to a standard. That being said, I also have BK2 as my breaker. Last night, I decided to use the BK2 butt instead of the sneaky Pete! Holy macaroni is all I can say:) found the cue of my dreams! I can not believe the difference in action and LESS deflection I get! I can almost make no adjustment!

Does anybody else do this? A friend of mine said I would look pretty dumb playing with a breaker, I laughed, I said "dude, if you knew how much I could not care about what people think"!

Anyways, I digress;) my question, can the butt make a significant difference in deflection? If someone was to ask me a couple days ago, I would say no. But now I would say yes! Just wondering if it's all in my head;)

Thanks

Eli
 
Thank you for a new question about deflection. I'm getting bored with the old ones that keep getting regurgitated, at least this one is new to me. The new craze, "low deflection butts, and I cannot lie, when I see a standard butt walk in my anaconda don't want none"... lol.
 
A butt can certainly change how a shaft hits....
...how can it not?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
No.


Yes.


"Hit" isn't deflection.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Ah, this is where I get confused on terms and semantics.
So, to me, deflection is where whitey goes off course when struck on the side.
But I usually call it 'push' and 'masse'.....
...if I use right english and whitey goes too far to the left ( to suit me)
...I say the cue 'pushes'
..if it goes too far to the right...
,,,I say the cue 'masses'

All very subjective, of course

I wouldn't mind some defining by you on this subject, PJ...
...you're the one who told me I was using 'back-hand' english...
...I never had a name for it till then.

also, to me, 'throw' is what the cue-ball does to the object-ball
 
deflection.

I think the different material at the joint of a cue makes a difference in deflection. I have several types of same shafts that have different pins. For instance the difference in deflection from my ivory joint bob frey titlist 5/16-14 to my tim Scruggs wood joint same pin to my joss stainless joint is very noticeable With my 314/2 predator. And my z/2. Is even noticeable in amount of deflection.
 
My opinion is that it's probably about the stiffness in the forearm of the butt. This can effect a bunch of factors.

Nick
 
pt109 said:
Ah, this is where I get confused on terms and semantics.
So, to me, deflection is where whitey goes off course when struck on the side.
But I usually call it 'push' and 'masse'.....
...if I use right english and whitey goes too far to the left ( to suit me)
...I say the cue 'pushes'
..if it goes too far to the right...
,,,I say the cue 'masses'

All very subjective, of course

I wouldn't mind some defining by you on this subject, PJ...
...you're the one who told me I was using 'back-hand' english...
...I never had a name for it till then.

also, to me, 'throw' is what the cue-ball does to the object-ball
Click to expand...
I agree that cue ball deflection is the cue ball "squirting" off line when sidespin is used. The problem with using the words "push" and "masse" the way you do is that they already have other meanings.

I think what people mean by a cue's "hit" is how it feels when they hit the cue ball with it, and I agree a butt can affect that.

But the only thing that's been found to affect the amount of CB deflection is the amount of mass (weight) in the first 6-8 inches from the tip. That's only affected by things like tip width, ferrule size, and whether the shaft is hollowed.
Hope that helps,

pj
chgo

P.S. And I agree throw is done to the OB by the CB.
 
Last edited:
Hit vs deflection

Patrick Johnson said:
I agree that cue ball deflection is the cue ball "squirting" off line when sidespin is used. The problem with using the words "push" and "masse" the way you do is that they already have other meanings.

I think what people mean by a cue's "hit" is how it feels when they hit the cue ball with it, and I agree a butt can affect that.

But the only thing that's been found to affect the amount of CB deflection is the amount of mass (weight) in the first 6-8 inches from the tip. That's only affected by things like tip width, ferrule size, and whether the shaft is hollowed.
Hope that helps,

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

This theory makes sense to me. Personally I prefer to feel the hit and compensate for deflection over a hit that feels dead with less deflection. Unless you can build a shaft with no deflection every shaft will require some type of adjustment for its own deflection. This being said it makes for a market of low deflection shafts which I think in all honesty once R&D costs are recouped realistically should cost no more than $150 based on what a custom shaft from most builders sell for these days. If it is true that shaft builds are delaying new custom builds a custom cue builder should command much more than a production shaft. This post is not meant to knock any LD manufacturer. I played briefly with a OB and it seemed fine to me, but if I'm paying a custom builder for his cue, I want to shoot with his shafts.
 
A friend of mine bought the new Sport2, and I've asked him "isn't that a break cue?"
He told me, that it's made the same like the BK2 or 3...

...just some other paint on it and a new name. They even could use the "00" of the logo, muuuaahhaaa... :rotflmao1:

So why don't play with that cue? If both parts together feel good and you miss less balls - your chance to improve.

I've tried things like these also. And I can play my Vollmer shaft on a Scruggs, Falcon, Schön, Joss, Mezz (PB)...
...and I'm kinda playing almost the same.
It's just a kind of feel then, what matters. Which one will give the best feedback...
 
Amen brotha!!

playdoubles said:
A friend of mine bought the new Sport2, and I've asked him "isn't that a break cue?"
He told me, that it's made the same like the BK2 or 3...

...just some other paint on it and a new name. They even could use the "00" of the logo, muuuaahhaaa... :rotflmao1:

So why don't play with that cue? If both parts together feel good and you miss less balls - your chance to improve.

I've tried things like these also. And I can play my Vollmer shaft on a Scruggs, Falcon, Schön, Joss, Mezz (PB)...
...and I'm kinda playing almost the same.
It's just a kind of feel then, what matters. Which one will give the best feedback...
Click to expand...

The best feedback for me is what I'm looking for. Don't care who made it, but I have been hearing good things about a young builder in China. Lonchi Lucasi I think might be his name. He's 15 and builds 1 million cues exactly a year and only drinks a generic red bull made in Indonesia.
 
I say play with what feels food in your hands and makes you feel like you can make the shot. I play with a predator sport 1. And have another predator sport 1 I use to break with, I put a BK2 shaft on it. And they look exactly like 2 break cues leaning against the table. Lol. People always ask me if I'm playing with a break cue. Until I show them. I'm getting ready to have doug Patrick cut one of them in the forearm and make a jump break out of it. Too. Like I was saying in my earlier post. My Scruggs sp, frey titlist, joss steel joint or my jerry olivier ivory over wood. Joint don't hit as good as my predator sport 1 w/ 314-2 shaft. Imho.
 
liakos said:
I've been using a predator sneaky Pete with a 314-2 shaft that is 30"! I've been liking the 30" shaft and I don't ever think I will go back to a standard. That being said, I also have BK2 as my breaker. Last night, I decided to use the BK2 butt instead of the sneaky Pete! Holy macaroni is all I can say:) found the cue of my dreams! I can not believe the difference in action and LESS deflection I get! I can almost make no adjustment!

Does anybody else do this? A friend of mine said I would look pretty dumb playing with a breaker, I laughed, I said "dude, if you knew how much I could not care about what people think"!

Anyways, I digress;) my question, can the butt make a significant difference in deflection? If someone was to ask me a couple days ago, I would say no. But now I would say yes! Just wondering if it's all in my head;)

Thanks

Eli
Click to expand...
Play with the break cue if you want, especially if it helps you win. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last.

The butt dimensions and balance of the break cue may just suit you better, helping you make everything.

Freddie <~~~ in favor winning
 
The last year I spent in Japan was 2007, and at the time, the all Japan amateur champion used the Predator break cue as his playing cue. At that time, I dare to say that it was one of the first or second editions of break cues that they made. He liked it because it still had pretty low deflection, but had a stiffer feel like a traditional shaft. Shortly after that, I remember seeing a few other well known Japanese players (one pro) doing the same.

Dave
 
liakos said:
I've been using a predator sneaky Pete with a 314-2 shaft that is 30"! I've been liking the 30" shaft and I don't ever think I will go back to a standard. That being said, I also have BK2 as my breaker. Last night, I decided to use the BK2 butt instead of the sneaky Pete! Holy macaroni is all I can say:) found the cue of my dreams! I can not believe the difference in action and LESS deflection I get! I can almost make no adjustment!

Does anybody else do this? A friend of mine said I would look pretty dumb playing with a breaker, I laughed, I said "dude, if you knew how much I could not care about what people think"!

Anyways, I digress;) my question, can the butt make a significant difference in deflection? If someone was to ask me a couple days ago, I would say no. But now I would say yes! Just wondering if it's all in my head;)

Thanks

Eli
Click to expand...

Eli,

I have 2 stories.

When Bob Meucci was doing his deflection comparisons for his Black Dot shaft, he did it with an Adam Balabushka that then was made by Helmstetter. It hit the best of all the stock cues. He immediately made the comment, ' This must be a very well made butt.'. He knew it could not be because of that stock maple shaft.

One night I was sort of challenged by the hall owners new girl friend that shoots rather well. Well I had already put my cue in the car after my in house match so I asked if I could use the owners break cue. I shot awesome with it & I shoot with either english or TOI for nearly every shot.It was a Predator BK 2 butt with a I think a 314 shaft, but with a very hard leather tip.

I've brought this subject up twice on AZB & it has gone no where both times.

You make your own determinations & shoot with a broom stick if it's what's working for you.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

PS I think that Bushka test was the conception of Meucci's Power Piston Butt.

You
 
Last edited:
Cornerman said:
Play with the break cue if you want, especially if it helps you win. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last.

The butt dimensions and balance of the break cue may just suit you better, helping you make everything.

Freddie <~~~ in favor winning
Click to expand...

New house and new table... and I see you are spending more time here!!!

Slacker...

Hope you are doing well =D
 
liakos said:
can the butt make a significant difference in deflection?
Click to expand...
No. Only the 6-8 inches of the shaft closest to the tip affect squirt (CB deflection). For more info, see: what causes squirt.

Now, if the butt is heavier or lighter than one is used to, for a given stroke one might get more or less CB speed, and this can affect swerve and net CB deflection (the combined effects of squirt and swerve). For more info, see: CB deflection speed effects.

Also, as others have pointed out, anything you change in a cue can affect the cue's "feel," "hit," "feedback," and "playability."

Regards,
Dave
 
Someone said it best. The best cue is the one you have been playing with for year. I have tried cue that I couldn't stand. I have tried cues that I have loved. That wears off for me. I get bored with the hit and want to try something new. Get bored with that a try something new. I should have just stayed with the original.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top