Question about intentional swerve

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bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
What tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Occassionally I find myself in the position where a "blocking" ball is between the CB and the OB by just a couple of milimeters. So all I need to do is swerve around the intervening ball a little bit.

Gut feel tells me to jack up at about a 30-degree angle and strike down on the CB (not like a trickshot masse, but maybe a 30-degree angle). But I've also had some success with swerves when I hit low on the CB.

If we ignore position for the next ball (let's say the next ball is a hanger that I can make from anywhere on the table), what tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Or, it would also be instructive to know what tip position on the CB creates the most reliable swerve? (although that's probably more subjective due to the shooter's stroke).

Any tips you have to offer about intentional swerving is appreciated.
 
bdorman said:
What tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Occassionally I find myself in the position where a "blocking" ball is between the CB and the OB by just a couple of milimeters. So all I need to do is swerve around the intervening ball a little bit.

Gut feel tells me to jack up at about a 30-degree angle and strike down on the CB (not like a trickshot masse, but maybe a 30-degree angle). But I've also had some success with swerves when I hit low on the CB.

If we ignore position for the next ball (let's say the next ball is a hanger that I can make from anywhere on the table), what tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Or, it would also be instructive to know what tip position on the CB creates the most reliable swerve? (although that's probably more subjective due to the shooter's stroke).

Any tips you have to offer about intentional swerving is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Maximum butt elevation + maximum off center. It's masse.

pj
chgo

P.S. There's a way to aim masse shots - search for "Coriolis".
 
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Depending on the distance between the CB & OB many times there's no need to jack up to 30* unless you're going around a lot of obstruction.

I generally shoot shots like you're describing by hitting at 4:00 to 4:30 or 7:00 to 7:30 depending on the distance between the CB & OB with just a 'slight' butt hand & bridge hand elevation so that the stroke is more in the downward direction.

When I miss that type of shot I generally over curve the ball than not.

Now I'm going to say what some may not agree.

It's about the spin to speed ratio. The ball needs time. Time is the 4th. dimension that is 'never' discussed here. I guess speed & time can be considered the same thing but how one considers them can make a difference IMHO.

Best 2 You & ALL,
Rick
 
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I've recently discovered in my own game that high outside (with stick on the rail and level stroke) causes almost no deflection and a ton of swerve. I might be wrong on the deflection vs swerve, but the resultant aim point on the OB is a half ball away from the ghost ball *edit opposite* the swerve direction.

Interesting to fool around with...
 
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the most swerve???

bdorman said:
What tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Occassionally I find myself in the position where a "blocking" ball is between the CB and the OB by just a couple of milimeters. So all I need to do is swerve around the intervening ball a little bit.

Gut feel tells me to jack up at about a 30-degree angle and strike down on the CB (not like a trickshot masse, but maybe a 30-degree angle). But I've also had some success with swerves when I hit low on the CB.

If we ignore position for the next ball (let's say the next ball is a hanger that I can make from anywhere on the table), what tip position on the CB creates the most intentional swerve?

Or, it would also be instructive to know what tip position on the CB creates the most reliable swerve? (although that's probably more subjective due to the shooter's stroke).

Any tips you have to offer about intentional swerving is appreciated.
Click to expand...

the most swerve will be generated from striking the ball with the cue perpendicular to the playing surface...

Jaden
 
a starting point system I've developed...

ENGLISH! said:
Depending on the distance between the CB & OB many times there's no need to jack up to 30* unless you're going around a lot of obstruction.

I generally shoot shots like you're describing by hitting at 4:00 to 4:30 or 7:00 to 7:30 depending on the distance between the CB & OB with just a 'slight' butt hand & bridge hand elevation so that the stroke is more in the downward direction.

When I miss that type of shot I generally over curve the the ball than not.

Now I'm going to say what some may not agree.

It's about the spin to speed ratio. The ball needs time. Time is the 4th. dimension that is 'never' discussed here. I guess speed & time can be considered the same thing but how one considers them can make a difference IMHO.

Best 2 You & ALL,
Rick
Click to expand...

a starting point system I've developed that helps me is for every inch deviation that you want, elevate the butt of the cue 10 degrees from the playing surface with the cue hitting one tip inside and one tip draw on the cb.

the harder you hit the ball, the farther along the aim path it will travel before curving back so depending on how far away from the obstructing ball you are varies how hard you will need to hit it.

Jaden
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Maximum butt elevation + maximum off center. It's masse.

pj
chgo

P.S. There's a way to aim masse shots - search for "Coriolis".
Click to expand...

Agreed. They are all masse shots it's all about how much downward force you use that determines the amount of swerve.
 
Maximum butt elevation + maximum off center. It's masse.

pj
chgo

P.S. There's a way to aim masse shots - search for "Coriolis".
Click to expand...
peteypooldude:
There is but the speed of the cue drastically changes that formula
Click to expand...
The "formula" stays the same - speed just changes how far the CB travels before curving (as Jaden said).

pj
chgo
 
Jaden said:
... the harder you hit the ball, the farther along the aim path it will travel before curving back so depending on how far away from the obstructing ball you are varies how hard you will need to hit it.

Jaden
Click to expand...
A small nit.... The path of the cue ball is a parabola from the time it leaves the tip until it starts rolling straight. That means it's curving right from the start.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
The "formula" stays the same - speed just changes how far the CB travels before curving (as Jaden said).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

So elevation isn't always necessary. I regularly swerve a full ball width with a level stroke shooting full length of a 10' table. And I mean easily. Its very easy to over do it too.

Like they're saying. it all depends on when you want the curve to start and how much when it does. I don't play much pool but if the obstruction is reasonably close, I might choose to hop the over the it rather than curve the CB.
Maybe that's just showing my inexperience.
 
That doesn't change what I said though..

Bob Jewett said:
A small nit.... The path of the cue ball is a parabola from the time it leaves the tip until it starts rolling straight. That means it's curving right from the start.
Click to expand...

The harder you hit it, the farther along the path it will travel with "less noticeable" deviation.

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
a starting point system I've developed that helps me is for every inch deviation that you want, elevate the butt of the cue 10 degrees from the playing surface with the cue hitting one tip inside and one tip draw on the cb.

the harder you hit the ball, the farther along the aim path it will travel before curving back so depending on how far away from the obstructing ball you are varies how hard you will need to hit it.

Jaden
Click to expand...

Yes a base line can be good & more younger players seem to play sort of by numbers but IMO one should not worship it or be married to it. It's a tool that needs to be adjusted, sort of like a torque wrench.

I don't play using numbers much at all & your last statement is sort of why I don't assign numbers & also because of the different playing conditions.

Here in New Orleans a table can play differently than it did just an hour or two ago. So, It really does come down to feel but that base line that you have is certainly a good starting point.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
Tennesseejoe said:
With a level cue, will the cue ball curve more with a 4:30 or a 1:30 hit?
Click to expand...

I rarely hit for a curve above center as I find that it changes direction quickly & I seem to hit the ball that I am trying to miss & I have to aim farther out & then don't come back enough to to the OB.

I prefer & trust myself more to deal with & use the the sliding of the spinning ball & the friction between it & the cloth.

That's just me.

To each their own.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
 
Originally Posted by Tennesseejoe View Post
With a level cue, will the cue ball curve more with a 4:30 or a 1:30 hit?

iusedtoberich said:
1:30 in my experience!
Click to expand...

Can you tape that stroke please? I'd like to learn this one.
I would have guessed 4:30. Maybe I'm confused with the question.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
A small nit.... The path of the cue ball is a parabola from the time it leaves the tip until it starts rolling straight. That means it's curving right from the start.
Click to expand...
Yes, imagine the same curve stretched out somewhat "flatter" for harder hits, with the end paths parallel for both.

pj
chgo
 
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