question about pausing, i've read the other threads

W

will14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.

I'm not talking about the SPF where the pause is just a smooth transition of backswing to forward swing, but rather a longer pause. Right now I pause on the backswing, but only for a little less than half a second or so.

I ask this question because it seems like most of the instructors i've talked/emailed with is an advocate a pause, are most of them just talking about the SPF method or the longer Buddy/Allison pause. If they are talking about the longer pause, why is it that if it's technically much more sound (if it is, not saying I think it is or isn't), do most pro players not seem to have a pause at the backswing or seem to have a very short pause (ala Shane)?
I"m not trying to rile anyone up, just curious.
Will
 
smooth transition

I think that the SPF pause is a training tool that develops into a smooth transition. From a purely mechanical standpoint I think that a smooth transition from backward to forward motion without a pause is better than an extended pause. However, on shots requiring a lot of touch I sometimes find myself with a natural extended pause at the back of my stroke. This seems to allow my mind and body to get more perfectly in tune to execute exactly what I am trying to do. This will usually happen with a long or moderately long shot when I am needing pinpoint shape afterwards.

Breaking the mechanics of hitting of a cue ball down, The backstroke is one stage, the pause if used is another, and the forward stroke the third. If we don't use a detectable pause the transition from rearward to forward motion can also be viewed as a stage. Looking at just the pause or transition, there is more time for error to occur in a pause than a transition. Also the muscles enter a state during the pause that they never enter during transition. Holding perfectly still unsupported is one of the hardest things we do. Muscles have to oppose each other in perfect balance. I prefer to avoid having my arm in that situation.

Hu


will14.1 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.

I'm not talking about the SPF where the pause is just a smooth transition of backswing to forward swing, but rather a longer pause. Right now I pause on the backswing, but only for a little less than half a second or so.

I ask this question because it seems like most of the instructors i've talked/emailed with is an advocate a pause, are most of them just talking about the SPF method or the longer Buddy/Allison pause. If they are talking about the longer pause, why is it that if it's technically much more sound (if it is, not saying I think it is or isn't), do most pro players not seem to have a pause at the backswing or seem to have a very short pause (ala Shane)?
I"m not trying to rile anyone up, just curious.
Will
Click to expand...
 
pause for composure

will14.1 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.
Will
Click to expand...

I have always had a long 'Fisher' pause. But my eyes do not switch to the o.b. in that time - they have already moved there during my final backswing.

What the pause does for me is settles the mind down somehow, allowing total focus during the delivery.

Then I miss.
 
For me the pause encourages a full stroke. If you define the key points of the stroke you won't poke at balls. I don't have a long pause, but when I am not playing well I focus on that and it realy helps me get back in stroke.
 
will14.1 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.

I'm not talking about the SPF where the pause is just a smooth transition of backswing to forward swing, but rather a longer pause. Right now I pause on the backswing, but only for a little less than half a second or so.

I ask this question because it seems like most of the instructors i've talked/emailed with is an advocate a pause, are most of them just talking about the SPF method or the longer Buddy/Allison pause. If they are talking about the longer pause, why is it that if it's technically much more sound (if it is, not saying I think it is or isn't), do most pro players not seem to have a pause at the backswing or seem to have a very short pause (ala Shane)?
I"m not trying to rile anyone up, just curious.
Will
Click to expand...





Uh oh.. will wait for Randy G to come correct you on the SET PAUSE (for 2 secs) finish method
 
Since Randy is teaching a class this weekend, I will try to cover for him.
There are 3 distinct stops in the pendilum stroke. The first is the one we SET which is with the tip addressing the cue ball just before the final backstroke. The second is the one we call PAUSE at the end of the back stroke. The third is FINISH, where the forward stroke comes to it's natural conclusion.

When we practice, we exagerate the stops to help ingrain them into our routine. We do this by holding each stop for two seconds. This is for practice. I can assure you I do not hold my first two stops that long, but I usually hold my finish stop at least a couple of seconds.

The second most important thing we teach in pool school is PEP or personal eye patterns. At some point, your eyes should lock in on your target before you actually stroke the cue ball. Most players lock on the target at the set position, but some wait until they get to pause before they shift their eyes to the target. Since it takes at least a full second for your brain to actually recognize the new object your eyes are focusing on, those players need a longer pause in both practice and in play. Allison appears to be one of those. Her extended pause allows enough time for her brain to focus on the target. Neither way is necessarily right or wrong...which is why we call it PERSONAL eye patterns.

Steve
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siz
pooltchr said:
Since Randy is teaching a class this weekend, I will try to cover for him.
There are 3 distinct stops in the pendilum stroke. The first is the one we SET which is with the tip addressing the cue ball just before the final backstroke. The second is the one we call PAUSE at the end of the back stroke. The third is FINISH, where the forward stroke comes to it's natural conclusion.

When we practice, we exagerate the stops to help ingrain them into our routine. We do this by holding each stop for two seconds. This is for practice. I can assure you I do not hold my first two stops that long, but I usually hold my finish stop at least a couple of seconds.

The second most important thing we teach in pool school is PEP or personal eye patterns. At some point, your eyes should lock in on your target before you actually stroke the cue ball. Most players lock on the target at the set position, but some wait until they get to pause before they shift their eyes to the target. Since it takes at least a full second for your brain to actually recognize the new object your eyes are focusing on, those players need a longer pause in both practice and in play. Allison appears to be one of those. Her extended pause allows enough time for her brain to focus on the target. Neither way is necessarily right or wrong...which is why we call it PERSONAL eye patterns.

Steve
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is exactly what I needed. I have been wondering what was missing.

Dwight
 
Dr. Dave calls a Buddy/Allison pause a distinct pause.

One thing I think we'd all agree on is it is important to have a smooth transition. One common stroke problem is a too fast backstroke followed by a rushed/jerky transition to the forward stroke. Incorporating a distinct pause helps this problem. But it's not necessary. It is possible to have a slow, smooth backstroke followed by a fluid smooth transition to the forward stroke with no pause at all. And as you say that is common amongst top players.

Some say the distinct pause separates the bicep pull from the tricep pull. But I don't buy this argument. Holding the forearm in place for a couple seconds at the backstroke requires the tricep. The forward acceleration requires the bicep. So the transition between muscle groups doesn't happen until you initiate the forward stroke.

It just seems like one of those things for which good, consistent, effective technique can develop either way.

It does seem like good players with no distinct pause switch their eye focus to the object ball at the set position. But sometimes it's hard to distinguish between doing it clearly at the set position and doing it simultaneous with drawing the cue back.

I recently spent a tournament watching the eye patterns of several of the top Canadians, like John Morra, Tyler Edey, Edwin Montel, Eric Hjorliefson, Jason Klatt, etc. Several of them seemed to switch eye focus simultaneous with beginning to draw the cue back.

I think a distinct pause is fine and is a fine thing to teach. But I don't think it's overall technically more sound or anything like that.

will14.1 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.

I'm not talking about the SPF where the pause is just a smooth transition of backswing to forward swing, but rather a longer pause. Right now I pause on the backswing, but only for a little less than half a second or so.

I ask this question because it seems like most of the instructors i've talked/emailed with is an advocate a pause, are most of them just talking about the SPF method or the longer Buddy/Allison pause. If they are talking about the longer pause, why is it that if it's technically much more sound (if it is, not saying I think it is or isn't), do most pro players not seem to have a pause at the backswing or seem to have a very short pause (ala Shane)?
I"m not trying to rile anyone up, just curious.
Will
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Siz
reasons for the "pause"

will14.1 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument. But it seems like the players who take a long pause (ala Buddy, Fisher, etc) use that time to move their eyes from the CB to the OB. If you don't move your eyes during that time, but rather before your final stroke, is there really a decided advantage to pausing.

I'm not talking about the SPF where the pause is just a smooth transition of backswing to forward swing, but rather a longer pause. Right now I pause on the backswing, but only for a little less than half a second or so.

I ask this question because it seems like most of the instructors i've talked/emailed with is an advocate a pause, are most of them just talking about the SPF method or the longer Buddy/Allison pause. If they are talking about the longer pause, why is it that if it's technically much more sound (if it is, not saying I think it is or isn't), do most pro players not seem to have a pause at the backswing or seem to have a very short pause (ala Shane)?
I"m not trying to rile anyone up, just curious.
Will
Click to expand...
FYI, I have good summaries of many thoughts on this topic here:


In particular, see the 4th Q&A.

Regards,
Dave
 
Excellent summary Mike. The only thing I would add is:

If a person tends to rush the backstroke and/or the transition between the back and forward stroke on some or all shots, adding a "distinct pause" could help this person dramatically.​

Allison Fisher once told me that adding a distinct pause had the biggest positive impact of any other thing she has done. That's a powerful anecdote. This doesn't mean it is good for everybody, but it can certainly be good for some people.

Regards,
Dave

mikepage said:
Dr. Dave calls a Buddy/Allison pause a distinct pause.

One thing I think we'd all agree on is it is important to have a smooth transition. One common stroke problem is a too fast backstroke followed by a rushed/jerky transition to the forward stroke. Incorporating a distinct pause helps this problem. But it's not necessary. It is possible to have a slow, smooth backstroke followed by a fluid smooth transition to the forward stroke with no pause at all. And as you say that is common amongst top players.

Some say the distinct pause separates the bicep pull from the tricep pull. But I don't buy this argument. Holding the forearm in place for a couple seconds at the backstroke requires the tricep. The forward acceleration requires the bicep. So the transition between muscle groups doesn't happen until you initiate the forward stroke.

It just seems like one of those things for which good, consistent, effective technique can develop either way.

It does seem like good players with no distinct pause switch their eye focus to the object ball at the set position. But sometimes it's hard to distinguish between doing it clearly at the set position and doing it simultaneous with drawing the cue back.

I recently spent a tournament watching the eye patterns of several of the top Canadians, like John Morra, Tyler Edey, Edwin Montel, Eric Hjorliefson, Jason Klatt, etc. Several of them seemed to switch eye focus simultaneous with beginning to draw the cue back.

I think a distinct pause is fine and is a fine thing to teach. But I don't think it's overall technically more sound or anything like that.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top