Question about refinishing and old Josswest

stefunny823

stefunny823

Registered
My mom has a Josswest, circa '72-75 (she thinks). It's in decent shape, still straight, considering she used it in bar leagues for a decade+. She promised the cue to me someday and I asked for her blessing to get it refinished and rewrapped. Her only request was that I trust who does the work and make sure that it won't devalue the cue, if that should concern me when the cue is mine.

My questions are:

Will refinishing the cue devalue it? If the work is as good as original, does it matter which cue maker does the refinish?

Same question regarding the wrap. If I had a leather wrap put on to replace the original (in perfect condition) linen wrap, will that devalue it? Does it matter who does the work?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
I'll start by saying yes, it matters who does the work.
Are you asking because of a concern for the CM's competency
or are you asking because you want a big name attached to the work?

"Will it devalue the cue?"
I'll ask a question to answer your question.
If your mom were giving you a 1964 Ford Falcon, would it have more value if it had
the original 50 yr old finish or more value if it looked like it just left the showroom?
Why would a cue be any different?

Once you've made your decision, find the person who is KNOWN for doing quality work.
Never take a chance on Danny Donut because he's $50 cheaper.

HTHs, KJ
 
Before refinishing I would consider the value of the original patina. On older objects, many people value the original patina more than anything that could be done by restoration. It depends on how good what you're starting with is.

On a '64 Falcon, since there are very, very few left still in good original condition, I would certainly leave it original if I could. But if it was in such condition that it was unreliable, unsightly or would rapidly deteriorate in every day use, I'd go ahead and restore it as necessary. That last phrase is key. It's only a virgin once.

It just depends on taste. As nice as shiny new objects are, many people prefer something that has been "blessed by many hands", as they say in India.

I drove my '67 Porsche 912 (hard) for over 40 years. It still had the same somewhat worn but clean and very presentable original paint and interior when I sold it a few years ago. The guy who bought it just about creamed his...., well, he was very happy.
For a 40 year old Joss cue in nice original condition, I would try a good cleaning and polishing, perhaps by a pro, before any other restoration work is considered. The results after a simple clean up and detailing might surprise you.

Robin Snyder

PS- KJ's right though. If you decide that you absolutely must restore this cue, use a cue man who has a fantastic reputation. It's hell trying to erase bad work
 
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They must leave the JW on the cue when restoring it, if you get it restored.
If the cue is in really bad shape then the refinish and rewrap might increase the value slightly. If it is in pretty decent shape then restoring it will devalue it. On that age of cue the finish was most likely very thin. Polishing it up with French polish will probably about break you even on value, but make it look better. Changing the wrap will almost certainly devalue the cue unless the wrap is in horrible condition. Cleaning up the wrap might be okay. You might want to post some pictures to get better opinions on how to proceed.
 
stefunny823 said:
My mom has a Josswest, circa '72-75 (she thinks). It's in decent shape, still straight, considering she used it in bar leagues for a decade+. She promised the cue to me someday and I asked for her blessing to get it refinished and rewrapped. Her only request was that I trust who does the work and make sure that it won't devalue the cue, if that should concern me when the cue is mine.

My questions are:

Will refinishing the cue devalue it? If the work is as good as original, does it matter which cue maker does the refinish?

Same question regarding the wrap. If I had a leather wrap put on to replace the original (in perfect condition) linen wrap, will that devalue it? Does it matter who does the work?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Click to expand...

If it's still solid with nearly all the finish intact but just a few dings and dingy, I might considering having it polished lightly. The linen wrap may also just need a light cleaning, if it is still in good shape. If there are bad dents, dings, scrapes, missing finish, finish popping around inlays and rings, etc., then I would have it refinished. I would not replace the linen with leather, unless that is your preference and it will be your player. It might even be possible for the linen to be removed, thoroughly cleaned, and reinstalled. Chances are it's Cortland, which is highly desirable.

Refinishing a typical old JW will not devalue the cue in 'the market' because chances are if you are asking, then it probably needs it. If a cue is near mint original condition, it will probably be worth a little more than a perfectly refinished example. On a cue that old, it's almost expected that it's been refinished, if it presents with nice clear finish nowadays. Cues back then were players, not closet queens.

I would only have a competent repairman or cue maker with a good solid name do the work, however. Spend $150-200 for a refinish from a someone who is highly regarded/respected, rather than ~$100 cheapy job. It will be worth it.

To increase desirability and maximize your value upon resale......it does matter who does the work, imo. Also, make sure the JW engraving is left on the cue.

Best of luck !!
 
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Will a refinish devalue ????

Furthermore......imo, cues aren't cars. You're talking a subset of a few hundred potential buyers (cues) vs. tens or even hundreds of thousands (cars).

If this is a simple, run-of-the-mill early JW that could use a refinish, a good refinish will not devalue it. It will accentuate its value in the market place.

If it's a ultra-special, high-end example or a playing cue from a past champion, then the decision would need to be considered much more carefully as for what's best to maintain/maximize value.

Here's the deal. The vast majority of cue buyers (80%+ imo) like cues that look shiny and new, even the classics. I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but it's the way it is.
 
Sean-
Two great posts, and I agree with everything you have said.

If my late mother had played pool, and if I had her cue, I would think of it's cash value only out of curiosity, since I would not be selling it, and I suspect that's what the OP had in mind with the question, not a future for sale ad . Could be wrong.

You're right, a lot of those old JW cues have a worn out finish by now and lots of them could use some help. It's nothing more than maintenance, really. But I say proceed with a steady hand. I love the look of well-massaged old stuff.

If the actual cash value what was important to me because I was going to sell it, that would be a different story and I'd do it in blue metalflake and pinstrips if that's what the market demanded. But for sure, I'd leave the JW logo unmolested.

Robin Snyder

Damn. That part about the metalflake ^. Nope, couldn't do it.
 
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stefunny823 said:
My mom has a Josswest, circa '72-75 (she thinks). It's in decent shape, still straight, considering she used it in bar leagues for a decade+. She promised the cue to me someday and I asked for her blessing to get it refinished and rewrapped. Her only request was that I trust who does the work and make sure that it won't devalue the cue, if that should concern me when the cue is mine.

My questions are:

Will refinishing the cue devalue it? If the work is as good as original, does it matter which cue maker does the refinish?

Same question regarding the wrap. If I had a leather wrap put on to replace the original (in perfect condition) linen wrap, will that devalue it? Does it matter who does the work?

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Click to expand...
I have refinished a few of these for Will P. Ibuycues and if it was to devalue the cue I am 100% positive he would not do it. Just make sure who ever does it. Knows what there doing.
 
Opps I just notices I wasn't in the gallery section, but the cuemakers. I am sorry and I shouldn't have posted.

Ken
 
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My guess is that you have no intention of selling this cue.
That's good.
If my Mother or Father gave me a cue, particularly something of this vintage,
I wouldn't sell it either.
It would have far more value than what some cue-flipper has the potential to realize.
You can't put a value on the nostalgia or the love in which the cue was given.

The fact that you're contemplating a restoration of sorts suggests that the cue
may not have all the original luster it had in it's younger days.
At 40 yrs. old, it's not supposed to.
All of this talk of maintaining originality is total BS.
This is a player's cue, not a closet-queen. You intend to play with the cue, correct?
Maintaining 'originality' is hype for cue-flippers to make a sale. It's one of their 'buzz-words'.
Ironically, if it were sold, the first thing the new owner would do is have it refinished and a new wrap installed.
A new wrap, particularly leather IMHO, would be a wonderful upgrade.
I don't care if it currently has Cortland on it, it's 40 yrs. old.
Time for a change. Again, be very selective on who you have do the work. It matters.
So the bottom-line here is, do you want to play a cue that looks like it's been used for 40 yrs
or do you want a cue that has been restored to it's original glory and 'style'?

I knew the car analogy was going to be a little too deep for some of our more enthusiastic posters.
"Furthermore......imo, cues aren't cars. You're talking a subset of a few hundred potential buyers (cues)
vs. tens or even hundreds of thousands (cars)." Yup, missed it by a mile.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do. There's a lot of 'special' involved here.

At Your Service, KJ
 
carguy said:
Before refinishing I would consider the value of the original patina. On older objects, many people value the original patina more than anything that could be done by restoration. It depends on how good what you're starting with is.

On a '64 Falcon, since there are very, very few left still in good original condition, I would certainly leave it original if I could. But if it was in such condition that it was unreliable, unsightly or would rapidly deteriorate in every day use, I'd go ahead and restore it as necessary. That last phrase is key. It's only a virgin once."

Again, my own standard for such things is stated above. With good care and periodic maintenance, many things will never require "restoration". Everything needs maintenance though as well as occasional repairs, and it sounds like that's exactly what this old JW needs: a good freshening up. I suppose some would call that restoration; I suspect we are mainly in agreement but for semantics.

If the finish and wrap are worn out and unsightly, good grief, get rid of them!
But people often jump the gun on this and lose the look and charm of having something that has been "blessed by many hands".

As others have said, one would have to see the cue in question to decide which is appropriate it this case.

Robin Snyder

PS/ That website with all those great old junks: hopefully the cue in question here is in much better shape than the cars shown.
Click to expand...
 
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Cues are like antiques when they are that old. Some antiques are more valuable if restored and some are not. Restore an old gun and you devalue it.
Restore a rusted peddle car and you raise the value. Restore a good condition peddle car and you devalue it. So it is a hard call. If you plan to play with it and want it to look nice refinish it. If you want to go with her wishes not to devalue the cue then show us some pictures so we can give a better opinion. I have an all original Balabushka that has a nick or two in the finish. Am I going to refinish it? No way!
 
Thanks to everyone for your responses. This has been very helpful! Here are some pics of the cue that I took with my phone a month ago. I'll try to get some better pics when I see her for Thanksgiving.

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So, some background info...my mom was married to a big time pool player from the early 70s through the mid 80s. He gave her this cue and taught her how to play. She continued to use it throughout this time and up until the mid 90s or so when she stopped playing leagues. This cue has definitely been loved, dropped, forgotten, etc. But it's in surprisingly good shape. Only a few minor nicks in the finish, and the wrap has no nicks, stains or marks at all. And it's straight as an arrow!

She only has one of the shafts. Apparently in the divorce, she barely made away with the cue and one shaft. The ferrule came off while playing with me a few years ago and I had Tom Coker put a new one on.

When my mom told me that she planned to leave the cue to me, and she told my siblings just in case there was any doubt, she basically said "do whatever you want with it, I'll be dead, what will I care? But if you suddenly get struck by lightning after you make any changes to it, you'll know I didn't approve." I immediately assured her I had no interest in being struck by lightning so would prefer to get her blessing on changes long before she's gone. She's only 60, I don't plan on losing her anytime soon. But I'll be damned if I'm left to guess if she'd like the changes or not and risk death by motherly lightning.

I told my mom that I'd give it a good home and that I'd *like* to someday actually use the cue. It hits so well. But I prefer a leather wrap, so in order for me to truly love using it, I'd need a leather wrap. I'd also want to get a new 29" shaft made for it, since hers was modified to be only a bit less than 27". No idea why. I have a Lamrbos now and love it, but I would absolutely love to have her cue, with leather wrap, and be able to use it from time to time.

So, all that said, I'd sooner sell a kidney than this cue. Resale value only matters to me in that I don't want to be that jackass that destroyed a relic just because I thought it'd "look cooler". You know how you feel when you see a beautiful muscle car and some jackass spray painted it lime green...
 
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Even though your cue has battle scars, it would not be a candidate for a refinish IMHO.

JV
 
Thank You for the pics.
Now that I've seen the cue, my suggestion is to leave it as is.
It's not really to the point of needing a refinish.
It's in amazing condition for it's age.
Take care of it as your Mother has and it may not need refinishing for another 20 yrs.

You're a Lucky Girl, KJ
 
Agreed...no refinish needed. It's in nice shape and might just need a quick polish and wrap press.
 
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