question about revos and kicking

HawaiianEye said:
I know a couple of them.

Can you beat them at pool?

If not, then you are comparing apples to oranges. Or, in this case, the Earth to something you just pulled out of Uranus.
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why do people assume that the best players are automatically the most knowledgeable about every facet of the game? especially nerd stuff like physics and stats

they are masters of execution, not math
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I've seen this several times, not specifically With kicking, but general position play. Some guy gets a New (usually ld) shaft and he starts punching and jabbing at the ball, rather than stroking. The Revo is especially prone to this issue (imo) because it's so god damned stiff and ld at the same time. If you're not careful that contraption is going to wreck Your stroke. It's not necessarily the shaft being bad, it's what People do With it once they get it. Luckily it's easily fixed, it's all up to you. Start shooting some slow, center ball kicks. You know, angle in-angle out stuff. Just gentle top spin shots, maybe a tiny touch of running English if you're on a Diamond (shudder). No shaft can wreck those shots, you can do them With a broomhandle, so if you're coming up short, you're definitely jabbing the ball. Once you really get in the grove With those (really Focus on hitting smooth, don't cheat yourself), you can graduate to more Advanced 2 and 3 cushion stuff, hitting them wiht the same quality stroke. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


I really dislike the Revo, to me it feels completely dead, but really, most kick shots are not about the shaft at all. It's all knowledge and stroke. And if you're consistently getting long or short, the adjustments should be easily made.

It would be helpful if you went into more detail on the troubles you are having. Can you make a simple "corner 5" 3-railer? If not, are you coming up long or short? Can you make a 1 rail, 2-1 kick? If not, which speed(s) are you missing?The hard speed ones or the slow ones?

For instance, if you're coming up long, while still hitting smooth and softly on the 3 railer, you're overspinning the ball. This is what a lot of People on here seem to believe, but I really, really doubt it, because if that were the case, you'd probably easily be able to correct it With tip placement, and consistently going long on those would probably mean that you're either elevating the cue, hitting completely in the wrong Place, or you have a killer stroke. If you're short, you're probably jabbing the ball. It's a good stroke diagnosis tool. If you're all over the place, then your stroke is shit, sorry to say. Of course this can be remedied, but the shaft should not be blamed.
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^^^ Here it is really useful post. Great observation and understanding of cause-effect relationships.
 
Pat is correct here. I would only add to use a lag speed stroke, which can standardized to allow for "feel" of each individual.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Patrick Johnson said:
Easy enough to test:

1. Use a striped ball as your "CB" with the stripe vertical and facing you.

2. Hit the ball on the edge of the stripe (maximum side spin), aiming it straight across the table (diamond to diamond) - put a target, like a piece of chalk, on the far rail to easily see if you're hitting straight across.

3. Hit it just hard enough to rebound to the near rail. Mark the spot it hits on the near rail.

3. Check the chalk mark after each shot to be sure you hit right on the edge of the stripe.

4. Don't count any shot if (1) you didn't hit the far rail target, (2) the chalk mark isn't exactly on the edge of the stripe, or (3) the speed is different.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
 
This really has nothing to do with Revo shaft, but more with the fact that only a few players seems to have some sort of system for trying out new equipment or tables.
It seems like the general feeling is: "I bought something new, this should make me play better" wich never has made sense to me, I tell customers that they will have to play atleast 10 hours with their new shaft before they adjust to it, for some players it will take longer, for others shorter. I have a selection of shots and drills I do, that gives me a rough outline of how the shaft behaves.
 
buckets said:
why do people assume that the best players are automatically the most knowledgeable about every facet of the game? especially nerd stuff like physics and stats

they are masters of execution, not math
Click to expand...
Usually it's just frustrated bluster at the end of a lost argument.

pj
chgo
 
I only had to kick twice tonight and was successful both times . Still aimed as I always do but relied on center ball only .. So it seems like using the same English as I do with my maple shafts was the problem. I shot well enough to win 8 ball 4-0 in a 4-4 race in 9 innings .
 
gregnice37 said:
Between wood and CF I do believe they do. I get tons more English than I did with wood at a much easier effort.
Click to expand...

Same thing for me, although I would not say "tons", but I think I can get 20% extra action on the cueball using the same hit than I do with any of my wood shafts. And between me and my son we have a bunch of them, from standard McDermotts to OB to Mezz and custom LD shafts and we have tried out a bunch of different Predator wood shafts to compare.

Did not see any kicking changes with the REVO but I do see an improvement in forgiveness when I think I mis-hit a shot, especially long ones or shooting over a ball. A lot of times I would think "that felt bad or awkward" but the ball would still go in.
 
lorider said:
I only had to kick twice tonight and was successful both times . Still aimed as I always do but relied on center ball only .. So it seems like using the same English as I do with my maple shafts was the problem. I shot well enough to win 8 ball 4-0 in a 4-4 race in 9 innings .
Click to expand...

That would show that the REVO applied different amount of spin with the same speed and cuetip placement as your other shaft. Which is what many players are saying about the REVO, you get more action with the same stoke.
 
lorider said:
Is it just me or has the revo affected your kicking game also ? I am only an apa 5/6 but kicking has been a strong suit of mine to the point where I have gotten a lot of compliments on it by much stronger players.

Since I switched to a revo a few months ago my kicking game has really suffered. Y ability to make balls was not affected at all when I switched from a 314 shaft. Cue ball control suffered for a few weeks and has continually improved every week.

I can't understand why my kicking game is so far off. On some kicks I miss the ball entirely where as I used to be able to pocket them or get close to the pocket .

It has gotten so bad that I will pull another cue out of my case to make a kick shot and then go back to shooting with the revo. It almost makes me want to go back to a maple shaft.

Any of you other revo owners experience that problem ?
Click to expand...

Straightpool_99 said:
I've seen this several times, not specifically With kicking, but general position play. Some guy gets a New (usually ld) shaft and he starts punching and jabbing at the ball, rather than stroking. The Revo is especially prone to this issue (imo) because it's so god damned stiff and ld at the same time. If you're not careful that contraption is going to wreck Your stroke. It's not necessarily the shaft being bad, it's what People do With it once they get it. Luckily it's easily fixed, it's all up to you. Start shooting some slow, center ball kicks. You know, angle in-angle out stuff. Just gentle top spin shots, maybe a tiny touch of running English if you're on a Diamond (shudder). No shaft can wreck those shots, you can do them With a broomhandle, so if you're coming up short, you're definitely jabbing the ball. Once you really get in the grove With those (really Focus on hitting smooth, don't cheat yourself), you can graduate to more Advanced 2 and 3 cushion stuff, hitting them wiht the same quality stroke. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


I really dislike the Revo, to me it feels completely dead, but really, most kick shots are not about the shaft at all. It's all knowledge and stroke. And if you're consistently getting long or short, the adjustments should be easily made.

It would be helpful if you went into more detail on the troubles you are having. Can you make a simple "corner 5" 3-railer? If not, are you coming up long or short? Can you make a 1 rail, 2-1 kick? If not, which speed(s) are you missing?The hard speed ones or the slow ones?

For instance, if you're coming up long, while still hitting smooth and softly on the 3 railer, you're overspinning the ball. This is what a lot of People on here seem to believe, but I really, really doubt it, because if that were the case, you'd probably easily be able to correct it With tip placement, and consistently going long on those would probably mean that you're either elevating the cue, hitting completely in the wrong Place, or you have a killer stroke. If you're short, you're probably jabbing the ball. It's a good stroke diagnosis tool. If you're all over the place, then your stroke is shit, sorry to say. Of course this can be remedied, but the shaft should not be blamed.
Click to expand...

Strightpool 99 gives a lot of info....good stuff.
I would like to just add....If the Revo has a thinner shaft than you used to play with, it's possible you may be hitting the cue ball with more draw than you used to? This would shorten up the angle on your kicks.
Another variable, since I know you are a league player. Was the cloth recently changed? New cloth will make the cue ball go long on some kicks.
There are a few variables to take into consideration that can change kicking angles.
Keep playing/practicing and have fun. Learn as much as you can. :)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Easy enough to test:

1. Use a striped ball as your "CB" with the stripe vertical and facing you.

2. Hit the ball on the edge of the stripe (maximum side spin), aiming it straight across the table (diamond to diamond) - put a target, like a piece of chalk, on the far rail to easily see if you're hitting straight across.

3. Hit it just hard enough to rebound to the near rail. Mark the spot it hits on the near rail.

3. Check the chalk mark after each shot to be sure you hit right on the edge of the stripe.

4. Don't count any shot if (1) you didn't hit the far rail target, (2) the chalk mark isn't exactly on the edge of the stripe, or (3) the speed is different.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Check the latest Fargo Rate, SVB is no longer #1......Wu 827, SVB 823, Filler 822, Shaw 819
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Easy enough to test:

1. Use a striped ball as your "CB" with the stripe vertical and facing you.

2. Hit the ball on the edge of the stripe (maximum side spin), aiming it straight across the table (diamond to diamond) - put a target, like a piece of chalk, on the far rail to easily see if you're hitting straight across.

3. Hit it just hard enough to rebound to the near rail. Mark the spot it hits on the near rail.

3. Check the chalk mark after each shot to be sure you hit right on the edge of the stripe.

4. Don't count any shot if (1) you didn't hit the far rail target, (2) the chalk mark isn't exactly on the edge of the stripe, or (3) the speed is different.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

MickeyMantle said:
Check the latest Fargo Rate, SVB is no longer #1......Wu 827, SVB 823, Filler 822, Shaw 819
Click to expand...
Was that a response to my post (that you quoted)? If so, I don't get the connection.

pj
chgo
 
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