What's the secret to the 9 ball break? I have a good 8 ball break and decent 1p break, but the 9 ball break is killing me. Most people tell me to move around until i find the sweet spot. Do you hit dead on the 1 wherever you break from or what? How do english, speed, and contact point affect what the balls do? Some people twist the rack and leave spaces between the balls, i play some people regularly and may make 3 balls on the break in 3 hrs. This has become very frusterating! Also, I play on both 9ft(red circle qb) and 7ft (heavy balls and measle balls), fast cloth and slow cloth. Wish someone would break it down for me. Thanks
question about the 9 ball break
- Thread starter kamasutraguru
- Start date
Louis Ulrich
New member
I don't believe that there is any one way to be successful with your break. You need to come up with several different break shots so you can change it up if your "go to" break is not working.kamasutraguru said:
Start with the obvious. Check the rack. If the rack is not tight then at least make sure the first 3 balls are frozen. This will help prevent the mud rack effect.
Experiment with cue ball placement and don't just take one break shot, make nothing and quit. Give each spot enough time to determine that it is a failure.
Placement of the cueball may not even be enough. You may want to change the angle in which you stroke through the cue ball. For example, if a level stroke dosen't work, elevate your bridge so that you are aiming through the cue ball and into the bed of the cloth.
Another thing you can try is varying your break speed or even apply different degrees of english to the cue ball.
This list could keep going but I suggest more than anything that you practice a lot. You have to log in the hours. Don't just break the balls 10 times and quit. Spend enough time to learn how the balls spread in different situations.
If all else fails, take a lesson from a reputable instructor.
Best of luck!
If you check my back posts, I explained in more detail how I go about teaching the break, but here it is basically.
1. You have to learn to control the CB FIRST, power comes later. Break the balls with whatever speed you want as long as you can park the CB after contact with the rack. Then you can ramp up the speed as your control gets stronger.
2. Once the control is there, WHERE to break from is the next thing to figure out on any given table. I start wherever the most wear is in the kitchen on the table, and break at 1/2 speed. Most people always try to crush the rack when a soft break works better, but they never find that out. then adjust CB placement, and ramp up speed accordingly.
3. Next....when you are really breaking well, look at the ball placement in the rack. If the wing ball is going, and the 1 is going up table missing the side pocket, play position for the 1 accordingly. Or...play the percentages...If the 1 is going in the side, wheres the 2 racked, and where is it going to go? Over all keep the CB in the center of the table for best results.
4. Now...when you really get into the study of the break.....you'll get possessed with ball placement in the rack. There are combinations when racking that make it better for a run out, or tougher.......that's another post all together.....can you tell I used to obsess over breaking?
have fun
Gerry
1. You have to learn to control the CB FIRST, power comes later. Break the balls with whatever speed you want as long as you can park the CB after contact with the rack. Then you can ramp up the speed as your control gets stronger.
2. Once the control is there, WHERE to break from is the next thing to figure out on any given table. I start wherever the most wear is in the kitchen on the table, and break at 1/2 speed. Most people always try to crush the rack when a soft break works better, but they never find that out. then adjust CB placement, and ramp up speed accordingly.
3. Next....when you are really breaking well, look at the ball placement in the rack. If the wing ball is going, and the 1 is going up table missing the side pocket, play position for the 1 accordingly. Or...play the percentages...If the 1 is going in the side, wheres the 2 racked, and where is it going to go? Over all keep the CB in the center of the table for best results.
4. Now...when you really get into the study of the break.....you'll get possessed with ball placement in the rack. There are combinations when racking that make it better for a run out, or tougher.......that's another post all together.....can you tell I used to obsess over breaking?
have fun
Gerry
Gerry said:If you check my back posts, I explained in more detail how I go about teaching the break, but here it is basically.
1. You have to learn to control the CB FIRST, power comes later. Break the balls with whatever speed you want as long as you can park the CB after contact with the rack. Then you can ramp up the speed as your control gets stronger.
2. Once the control is there, WHERE to break from is the next thing to figure out on any given table. I start wherever the most wear is in the kitchen on the table, and break at 1/2 speed. Most people always try to crush the rack when a soft break works better, but they never find that out. then adjust CB placement, and ramp up speed accordingly.
3. Next....when you are really breaking well, look at the ball placement in the rack. If the wing ball is going, and the 1 is going up table missing the side pocket, play position for the 1 accordingly. Or...play the percentages...If the 1 is going in the side, wheres the 2 racked, and where is it going to go? Over all keep the CB in the center of the table for best results.
4. Now...when you really get into the study of the break.....you'll get possessed with ball placement in the rack. There are combinations when racking that make it better for a run out, or tougher.......that's another post all together.....can you tell I used to obsess over breaking?
have fun
Gerry
No better advice can be offered!
kamasutraguru said:
Here are 2 free resources. I also recommend The Great Break Shot by Charlie Bond
Breaking To Win
Mastering The Break
i bought tuckers "racking secrets dvd" and i have to say its helped my break tremendously.Theres some people i play with now that i always make at least one ball on (theres one guy i seem to make 3 on about 50% of the time).........you basically just have to watch the rack or look at the rack. Once you know where the gaps are going to be on a rack you just break according to the side the gaps are on.......the smaller the gaps the more you go to the rail........the bigger the gaps the more you bring the break out towards the middle. Joe says over and over in his video, its not the break, its the rack.
Progress!!! It always feels nice to see improvement. Thanks to all who took the time to help me out. Now that i can make a ball and get a little shape who is gonna explain where to put which balls???
Listen to Gerry and BlackJack.
That's very SOLID advice.
Though, my old adage is to align the cue ball with the one ball and one of the two, fourth row balls.
Example.
Just depends on which side you're breaking from (reverse the english if attacking from other side of the table). A ball will go in, if it's racked to standards.
That's very SOLID advice.
Though, my old adage is to align the cue ball with the one ball and one of the two, fourth row balls.
Example.
Just depends on which side you're breaking from (reverse the english if attacking from other side of the table). A ball will go in, if it's racked to standards.
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My most popular break is the one Ronoh suggested although I don't hit low english. I elevate my cue a smidgen and hit straight through the back left ball with center english. Once I align the cue ball and the one ball and the back left/right ball in a straight line I dont even look at the one ball anymore. My sights are actually on the back left/right ball. I have more success hiting the one dead in the face this way. When done correctly the cue ball should pop back to the center of the table and stop. The nine also goes in the corner pocket alot more (for me anyways) than any other break. Thats just my most successful break. Use the advice the others gave and find what works for you.
wie table problems
All i see is a square with a square, circle and triangle inside of it. I reckon i need some software.
All i see is a square with a square, circle and triangle inside of it. I reckon i need some software.
After reading this thread and both articles i went to the poolroom armed with new knowledge. I came to the conclusion i was breaking too hard and hitting the one ball too square. A few minor adjustments i was making the wing ball and getting shape on the 1. what really put it into perspective for me was where Blackjack shows a 9 on the spot and says play both shots the same. I feel as though i have broken into C+ status, lookout world!
where can i get the good stuffRonoh said:
Gerry said:If you check my back posts, I explained in more detail how I go about teaching the break, but here it is basically.
1. You have to learn to control the CB FIRST, power comes later. Break the balls with whatever speed you want as long as you can park the CB after contact with the rack. Then you can ramp up the speed as your control gets stronger.
2. Once the control is there, WHERE to break from is the next thing to figure out on any given table. I start wherever the most wear is in the kitchen on the table, and break at 1/2 speed. Most people always try to crush the rack when a soft break works better, but they never find that out. then adjust CB placement, and ramp up speed accordingly.
3. Next....when you are really breaking well, look at the ball placement in the rack. If the wing ball is going, and the 1 is going up table missing the side pocket, play position for the 1 accordingly. Or...play the percentages...If the 1 is going in the side, wheres the 2 racked, and where is it going to go? Over all keep the CB in the center of the table for best results.
4. Now...when you really get into the study of the break.....you'll get possessed with ball placement in the rack. There are combinations when racking that make it better for a run out, or tougher.......that's another post all together.....can you tell I used to obsess over breaking?
have fun
Gerry
Excellent post,very imformative.Combine this with Joe Tuckers "Racking Secrets" book or DVD and you are well on your way.
RJ
I found one of the most helpful and informative articles on the 9-ball break was one by none other than Blackjack.
Blackjack, could you point out where that can be found? It was on the long side, and you mention Tony Ellin...you know the one I mean?
I have really studied the break quite a lot myself, and here are some things I've come up with:
1) Power is good. Not because you want to hit the balls hard, but because if you *CAN* hit them hard, then you can hit them good solid and medium hard with less effort, hence usually greater accuracy.
2) You need to be super-aware of your cuetip position on the cueball. A tiny little difference changes the outcome dramatically.
3) Practice pocketing the one in the side oposite from the side you break from. Here is how to do it: First, break square into the one ball with as close as possible to a center ball hit, and at a medium speed that you can easily duplicate. The first thing to look at is what the cueball does. If it stays near the center table (without getting there by bouncing off a rail), then you are done with adjusting your tip position. If it is drawing back, bring your tip up a bit, if it is following, bring the tip down a bit. Next, look at where the one is going. If it is coming up short of the side pocket, you can make it by hitting the rack a bit harder. If it is coming past the side pocket, ease up on the power a bit. You can also accomplish this with follow and draw. If the cueball is coming past the side pocket, use a bit lower hit. If it is coming up short of the side, hit a little higher. You will have to experiment to find the right blend of power and cuetip position. All this is assuming that you are hitting the one dead square every time, which is tough to do. The point of this is twofold: 1) this can build your overall control and position capabilities on the break, and 2) It can make you a ball when that corner ball just won't go.
4) Stay loose. The last thing you want to do when going for power is *try to hit it hard*. Just really focus on keeping your arm loose and relaxed, and swing through the ball.
5) Imagine where your cue tip will be at the end of your stroke. Really visualize it. Then put it there. In one smooth motion. Do not let the feeling of contacting the cueball interfere with the image of placing your tip right out on that spot you imagined. For me, I try to put my tip right down on the cloth about 6 inches in front of the 1 ball (on an 8' table). I don't really get it there, but almost.
6) Use a short bridge. Most people feel like a long bridge is necessary for power. Not only is it not necessary, it kills your control and accuracy. Hitting the rack dead square at 18 mph is much better than a crappy hit at 25 mph. Just ask Charlie Bryant (who has been on radar at 34 mph). It is all technique, not bridge length.
7) It is nice to keep your cue level. Obviously if you have watched the pros, not too many do this. However, one thing you will notice is that the *TIP* of the cue stays level (for most). For example, Johnny Archer's hand is often over his head at the end of his break stroke, but his tip is the same distance off the cloth as when he started.
8) Practice choking up a little bit on the cue. If you have the mechanics to move your body forward abit and possibly lift your shoulders up a bit (as a lot of power breakers do), this can help keep the tip in the right location at impact. This might not be the right advice for everyone's mechanics, but it is worth trying out.
9) Experiment. Try to determine what variables are involved in the break-there are many!! If you can, try to keep everything the same except for one variable. For example, do everything the same but experiment with grip position. Or cue weight, etc. This builds your knowledge about the break and how you work.
10) If you want an instant, easy, and suprisingly problem free solution for more power, try this (only if you bend your back knee slightly). Right as you are beginning your forward swing, straighten out your back knee. Kind of like pushing off your back leg. But don't really push. In fact don't really use much effort at all. Just gently "stand" with your back leg. I think this little manuever can ad a couple of mph to your break with very little effect on accuracy.
11) Pay attention to "stroke". You can hit the ball in the same place, contact the one the same place, hit it at the same speed, and yet produce different results. I haven't analyzed this on film or anything, but I know that there is a certain stroke that I try to capture that really pops the head ball. I swear I can break 20 times and make nothing. Then I think about just stroking the ball so the headball pops. I don't hit it any harder or really any different. I just go through the ball smoothly-I know this is vague. Hit the rack 1000 times and you will know what I mean.
This has been my experience, and I'm sure your milage may vary. I would love to hear comments from some of the more knowledgable guys here. Blackjack, Scott Lee maybe?
Thanks,
KMRUNOUT
OH YEAH!!!, one more thing. Think of the break as a "shot". You know, not just as a smashing technique. Imagine you are playing it the way you might play any other breakout type shot. Imagine you are playing straight pool and your only shot is the 1 in the side. You've just run 99 balls and this is it. Treat it with the care and precision you would give a shot like that.
Blackjack, could you point out where that can be found? It was on the long side, and you mention Tony Ellin...you know the one I mean?
I have really studied the break quite a lot myself, and here are some things I've come up with:
1) Power is good. Not because you want to hit the balls hard, but because if you *CAN* hit them hard, then you can hit them good solid and medium hard with less effort, hence usually greater accuracy.
2) You need to be super-aware of your cuetip position on the cueball. A tiny little difference changes the outcome dramatically.
3) Practice pocketing the one in the side oposite from the side you break from. Here is how to do it: First, break square into the one ball with as close as possible to a center ball hit, and at a medium speed that you can easily duplicate. The first thing to look at is what the cueball does. If it stays near the center table (without getting there by bouncing off a rail), then you are done with adjusting your tip position. If it is drawing back, bring your tip up a bit, if it is following, bring the tip down a bit. Next, look at where the one is going. If it is coming up short of the side pocket, you can make it by hitting the rack a bit harder. If it is coming past the side pocket, ease up on the power a bit. You can also accomplish this with follow and draw. If the cueball is coming past the side pocket, use a bit lower hit. If it is coming up short of the side, hit a little higher. You will have to experiment to find the right blend of power and cuetip position. All this is assuming that you are hitting the one dead square every time, which is tough to do. The point of this is twofold: 1) this can build your overall control and position capabilities on the break, and 2) It can make you a ball when that corner ball just won't go.
4) Stay loose. The last thing you want to do when going for power is *try to hit it hard*. Just really focus on keeping your arm loose and relaxed, and swing through the ball.
5) Imagine where your cue tip will be at the end of your stroke. Really visualize it. Then put it there. In one smooth motion. Do not let the feeling of contacting the cueball interfere with the image of placing your tip right out on that spot you imagined. For me, I try to put my tip right down on the cloth about 6 inches in front of the 1 ball (on an 8' table). I don't really get it there, but almost.
6) Use a short bridge. Most people feel like a long bridge is necessary for power. Not only is it not necessary, it kills your control and accuracy. Hitting the rack dead square at 18 mph is much better than a crappy hit at 25 mph. Just ask Charlie Bryant (who has been on radar at 34 mph). It is all technique, not bridge length.
7) It is nice to keep your cue level. Obviously if you have watched the pros, not too many do this. However, one thing you will notice is that the *TIP* of the cue stays level (for most). For example, Johnny Archer's hand is often over his head at the end of his break stroke, but his tip is the same distance off the cloth as when he started.
8) Practice choking up a little bit on the cue. If you have the mechanics to move your body forward abit and possibly lift your shoulders up a bit (as a lot of power breakers do), this can help keep the tip in the right location at impact. This might not be the right advice for everyone's mechanics, but it is worth trying out.
9) Experiment. Try to determine what variables are involved in the break-there are many!! If you can, try to keep everything the same except for one variable. For example, do everything the same but experiment with grip position. Or cue weight, etc. This builds your knowledge about the break and how you work.
10) If you want an instant, easy, and suprisingly problem free solution for more power, try this (only if you bend your back knee slightly). Right as you are beginning your forward swing, straighten out your back knee. Kind of like pushing off your back leg. But don't really push. In fact don't really use much effort at all. Just gently "stand" with your back leg. I think this little manuever can ad a couple of mph to your break with very little effect on accuracy.
11) Pay attention to "stroke". You can hit the ball in the same place, contact the one the same place, hit it at the same speed, and yet produce different results. I haven't analyzed this on film or anything, but I know that there is a certain stroke that I try to capture that really pops the head ball. I swear I can break 20 times and make nothing. Then I think about just stroking the ball so the headball pops. I don't hit it any harder or really any different. I just go through the ball smoothly-I know this is vague. Hit the rack 1000 times and you will know what I mean.
This has been my experience, and I'm sure your milage may vary. I would love to hear comments from some of the more knowledgable guys here. Blackjack, Scott Lee maybe?
Thanks,
KMRUNOUT
OH YEAH!!!, one more thing. Think of the break as a "shot". You know, not just as a smashing technique. Imagine you are playing it the way you might play any other breakout type shot. Imagine you are playing straight pool and your only shot is the 1 in the side. You've just run 99 balls and this is it. Treat it with the care and precision you would give a shot like that.
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The article where Blackjack brought up Tony Ellin is one of the two articles on the first page. Today more pratice and more results, it's like night and day! The best modivation is to see improvement, thank you everyone for all of the help.