First of all Hello, Yes, I am a newbie here. Secondly I'm Disabled so unfortunately can't play pool. Bad start I know but, I avidly watch 9 ball when it is televised on Sky. This week we've had shown The Mosconi Cup and a documentary on Earl Strickland. During the documentary, Earl said he had to move to Queens to earn a living and basically the American Pool scene is dead.Also during the the last Mosconi match. Jay and Jerry said something about American players not travelling well to overseas tournaments. This is my genuine question Why is this? If the scene in the states is in decline why wouldn't you Travel to the places where it is expanding? I believe both Appleton and Immonen both now live in the states. so they must travel to tournaments. Perhaps I'm wildly behind the times, but, isn't very popular in Asia? You only got to look at what Matchroom has done with Darts in the U.K. which doesn't have the global appeal. for a massive success story. Anyway thank you for indulging an outside fan's opinion hopefully I can be enlightened
Question about the state of American Pool
- Thread starter Baggie192
- Start date
It's a fair question. I can basically understand why an American won't move to, say, Asia.
It's just so foreign... learning the language and customs and even laws would be tough,
and they'd sort of stick out like a sore thumb.
But in Europe, a 6 foot tall white guy speaking English is a commonplace thing,
It wouldn't be so uncomfortable to live there.
I think Americans are just against with the idea of moving out of the country for their job.
You might give up your homeland for a guaranteed $100,000+ salary. Maybe.
But nobody's gonna do that for a non-guaranteed chance to grow $30,000 into $50,000.
That's too little money to justify being thousands of miles away from all your friends and family.
The language thing might be a major part of it. Americans are not forced to learn a secondary
language and when they do, they just pull one out of a hat and usually ditch it after high school.
In Europe, apparently everyone is required to learn English and speaks it decently even after high school.
So Mika can come over here and right away he can overcome part of the culture shock.
But Shane can't move to finland without spending months being baffled every time someone addresses him.
I'm not sure why Appleton and Immonen live here, but it may not be strictly for pool.
I'm trying to remember, but didn't he or someone else say during a TAR podcast that America was
the greatest place to live? So maybe nobody really moves out of their country JUST for the sake of pool.
It's just so foreign... learning the language and customs and even laws would be tough,
and they'd sort of stick out like a sore thumb.
But in Europe, a 6 foot tall white guy speaking English is a commonplace thing,
It wouldn't be so uncomfortable to live there.
I think Americans are just against with the idea of moving out of the country for their job.
You might give up your homeland for a guaranteed $100,000+ salary. Maybe.
But nobody's gonna do that for a non-guaranteed chance to grow $30,000 into $50,000.
That's too little money to justify being thousands of miles away from all your friends and family.
The language thing might be a major part of it. Americans are not forced to learn a secondary
language and when they do, they just pull one out of a hat and usually ditch it after high school.
In Europe, apparently everyone is required to learn English and speaks it decently even after high school.
So Mika can come over here and right away he can overcome part of the culture shock.
But Shane can't move to finland without spending months being baffled every time someone addresses him.
I'm not sure why Appleton and Immonen live here, but it may not be strictly for pool.
I'm trying to remember, but didn't he or someone else say during a TAR podcast that America was
the greatest place to live? So maybe nobody really moves out of their country JUST for the sake of pool.
Pathetic Shark
Banned
Yeah, reluctantly, through gritted teeth.
Seriously, though, I don't really buy the not wanting to travel excuse. Appleton himself went to the Philippines for a while to learn how to play and how to gamble. Everyone speaks English there and you can live like a king for very little cash.
Plenty of British players have relocated to Thailand or PI and seem to do ok. It's a great lifestyle over there. I suspect many make comfortable livings as well.
The brutal truth is the vast majority of your players aren't good enough to make a living playing pool outside their comfort zones. They are flat track bullies. Decades of isolation, arrogance and complacency has come home to roost.
Everything else is just excuses.
- Liverpool legend Ian Rush, on moving to Juventus.
I think I came as a little bit confusing, Apologies for that I didn't mean a pemanant move. The commentator on the final Morris/Hatch said basically American player over the last few years had entered less oversea's tournament than they have done in past. In the Strickland documentary they screened here in Britain, Earl said he had to move to Queens, in order to make a living from I presume gambling from Pool.
Perhaps I've made presumptions, as of said I'm not physically able to play, but, I'm hooked on watching it when it is on. These presumptions are the sport has a rabid fanbase in The Far East. It's expanding in Europe. The World is becoming a smaller
and the cost of travel seems to be coming down. Why wouldn't the player's want to come over to the tournaments if that's where the money is?
Parallel's can be draw to the BDO/PDC Darts split during 1993 in the UK. It was a niche sport that was dying due to lack of TV Coverage. The top 16 players originally split from the governing body. Went with both Matchroom and Sky, now twenty years later the sport is now big in both the U.K. and The Netherlands. Both are tiny in size compared to a state like Texas let alone the USA as a whole. Yet, The players can earn millions in prize money because it earns ratings for Sky
Back to Pool, perhaps if some of the new generation of American player should come over and compete, in either The Europe or Far East tournaments. If they did well perhaps it could kick start it on a US pay sports channel? Like Darts did n Sky. After all didn't ESPN once televise Poker?
I'm not sure how you reconcile the idea that American pool is dead with the idea that top European pool players are moving to the US.
There was a TAR broadcast, I think before the Shaw/other guy match (sorry, I'm blanking on his name) where Appleton stated that there were enough tournaments in the states that he was able to make money.
Basically that is what Earl said I thnk the programme is on You Tube now. Plus that is kind of my point, they're living in the US and playing aboard While the American commentary team on Sky said that US players had been scaling back on doing that for a number of years
I think it comes down to many factors. Your sponsorship, expenses, level of competition, prize money and others. Even though it's a tournament. It's still gambling except your putting up your entry fee against greater odds of making it to the money. Americans know where the top players are as do other countries top players. Probably most only travel for big events with larger prize funds. Also their sponsor might get more exposure. You can be a top 10 American player against other Americans. Where do you rank with the rest of the world? So your odds go down in other countries.
Fair enough, When the US TV companies lose interest and why? I remember in the late 80's Sky before Murdoch had US ESPN on tape delay and Pool was on such a lot. It's a Dynamic sport. I can't undestand why coverage would die out so much when something like Poker would be covered
Yeah, reluctantly, through gritted teeth.
Seriously, though, I don't really buy the not wanting to travel excuse. Appleton himself went to the Philippines for a while to learn how to play and how to gamble. Everyone speaks English there and you can live like a king for very little cash.
This is a cultural thing, I think you'd see it if you lived here. We're just not that adventurous.
We like our familiar trappings around us. Europeans can easily hop to another country,
you just get in the car and go. A guy in the middle of Germany is about a 6 hour drive
from literally a dozen countries.
We only have driving access to 2 countries. Texas borders one of them, but if you live
in the northern part of texas you have to drive 7+ hours just to hit the border.
Going to other states is exotic enough for most of us. We're a wealthy enough nation that we vacation
in other countries but few are prepared to just up and move, and if they do it needs a serious financial incentive
because seeing your friends and family requires a thousand dollar plane ticket and not $150 of gas.
I've known many people who've never left the USA and a few who never even left their state.
It's just not as ho-hum routine as it is for Europeans, it's a big deal.
Even if we had 6 guys that played like Shane (thereby reducing his 6 figure income to the point where he
needed access to a large pie) I doubt any of them would move to Europe.
It's just not part of our mindset.
The only time I can think of an American doing something like this was when Rempe and Mizerak tried
their hand at snooker. But that's a much larger pie. Without an incentive that size, we're just not
prepared to make that kind of move.
Yeah there is that but it is like televising chess though. I appreciate the skill but its watching a bunch of guys wearing darkglasses and iPods
Pathetic Shark
Banned
If you had six guys that played like Shane, they wouldn't NEED to move out of the US. (point being, if you have 6 Shane's, you have 12 Archer's, 24 Dechaine's and so on down the food chain).
The guys at the top are only as strong as the guys at the bottom. It is the lack of strength/competition throughout the structure that causes weakness at the top. If the pros are not being pushed from within, they will not be able to cope with being pushed from without.
Where there is competition, there will be travel. Where there is no competition, there will be complacency.
Good post by the original poster.
I met Mika in the late 1990's when he had just moved here on a part-time basis and asked him why he chose to move to the United States. He gave me two reasons, the first of which was that there were not many challenging opponents in Finland and that it was hindering the development of his competitive pedigree. The second point he made was about geography.
Playing the Eurotour involved travelling a lot of miles all over Europe. By comparison, one could play in a lot of events with little travel in the Northeast United States.
It's true even today. In the last few months alone, a NY based player could have played in:
numerous Predator tour events, which are NY based
numerous Joss tour events, played chiefly in NY, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachussetts
the event at Turning Stone, played in upstate NY
the World 14.1 event in NY
the Steinway classic played in NY
the Ginky memorial event played in NY
This many events so close to home explain why many Europeans have relocated to the northeast United States, for it helps them manage their expenses.
I met Mika in the late 1990's when he had just moved here on a part-time basis and asked him why he chose to move to the United States. He gave me two reasons, the first of which was that there were not many challenging opponents in Finland and that it was hindering the development of his competitive pedigree. The second point he made was about geography.
Playing the Eurotour involved travelling a lot of miles all over Europe. By comparison, one could play in a lot of events with little travel in the Northeast United States.
It's true even today. In the last few months alone, a NY based player could have played in:
numerous Predator tour events, which are NY based
numerous Joss tour events, played chiefly in NY, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Massachussetts
the event at Turning Stone, played in upstate NY
the World 14.1 event in NY
the Steinway classic played in NY
the Ginky memorial event played in NY
This many events so close to home explain why many Europeans have relocated to the northeast United States, for it helps them manage their expenses.