question for duckie

[Shawn Armstrong]

I think Duckie is a world champ at Virtual Pool. I love people like Duckie that say it's impossible to line up two points on spheres, yet it's somehow possible....in their world....to aim the centre of something that apparently doesn't have edges (I have news for you....if you can find centre....the edges are equidistant to the right and left of your "centre"), and it can pass right over the centre of an imaginary item.....

I'm getting my tinfoil helmet.

 

[mohrt]

responses in blue.

Not for me.....in the real world, it's 3d first off, not 2d. What you are showing is a imaginary line that touches a spot on the curved surface. Not that there is a edge of a sphere. The only place that imagined line exist while shooting is in your mind meaning subjective cause it does not exist in my mind when I'm shooting.

Who ever made a technical statement that a sphere has edges? When someone mentions left or right edge of a ball, they referencing this imaginary vertical line that touches the left-most or right-most spot on the ball. How hard is that to understand? They have been clearly diagrammed many times as well.

Second, is the point of view.....do you really view a shot from this point of view?

This view is one example. It doesn't matter what view or ball you use, the imaginary square works the same. If you are looking at a ball sitting on the surface of a table, it works all the same. I can diagram some examples if you really need them.

Try as you may....there are no edges on a sphere. I can post a real pic of a ball and a cube in order to show the difference between something with a edge and something without a edge.

We all know the technicalities of which you speak, no need to explain it. In the context of the discussion, which is finding edges and centers of a given perception of a pool ball, this is completely irrelevant.

It's get me that people like to be so precise about something........up to a point, then not. They want to talk precisely about the phyisics, the degree of cut angles of a shot but not be precise about the geometry of a shot and the shape of the objects ie balls then come into play.

There is nothing imprecise about the diagrammed square, it works as a guide to locate positions on a given perception of a pool ball, plain and simple.

There's a Moody's Blues song line that I embrace a lot........."do you question all the answers" meaning do you think for yourself or think what others want you to.....just accept what is said to be fact and never really seeing if it really is.

I have to ask, do you think there is a possibility the earth is flat? I mean, have you questioned ALL the answers? Just curious what you think.

 

[mohrt]

As everyone is aware (I hope), no matter how you see (perceive) the shot, the only place on the object ball you will ever hit is along the horizontal center of the ball (equator). Exceptions are when you jump the cue ball to land at a higher point on the object ball.

The spherical shape of the ball distorts some people's interpretation of the shot and they forget (or don't know) that their cue ball never touches what is perceived to be the smaller areas of the ball (above and below the equator).

You are always hitting the object ball at the equator and I think it is easier to try to envision just the horizontal center and vertical center of the ball and divide it into sections or degrees in your mind.

I'm sure your brain will use other input to try to work out the other little pieces that may be missing, but it will get you into the ballpark.

Yes, the equator is where the balls make contact. Stan makes a reference of 360 "ticks" around that equator. You just have to hit the right tick-to-tick. Same reason the rails are positioned slightly above that line, as the balls make contact with the rail at the same height.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I think the reason that people have problems is that they can't "see" (in their mind) straight lines on a round object.

Here is the same diagram with actual equator contact points for a couple shots.

As the ball lies, assuming the cue ball is directly below it, the contact point on the vertical center on the equator is the blue circle. This is the point that would make the object ball go straight.

If you are trying to make the ball go to the upper left (as the yellow line) then the contact point is the blue circle on the right of the ball. The same thing applies when trying to send the ball to the upper right (pink line)...the contact point is the blue circle on the equator on the left of the cue ball.

The dark blue lines are actual equator points that that cue ball must hit in order to send the object ball to the desired angle. The light blue lines are visuals from looking at the ball from different angles. These lines are parallel to the actual equator contact point vertical lines.

I may be confusing you (quick drawing using Paint), but I can visualize and understand what I'm saying. It is easier to do at the table when you are actually showing someone. Some people see in 3D and others do not. I think everyone learns better if they can actually see it in use.

Aloha.

 

[JB Cases]

And this the A,B,C places used in CTE.

Pretty easy to understand that the A and C divisions are something a player can learn to see clearly.

 

[duckie]

.............

 

[cookie man]

Below are a couple pics of cut shots, in the first one, the three ball, not a drawings on a flat piece of paper. The pics shows depth and curves of the balls. plus both balls needed to do a shot. Plus it also shows the point of view of the shots.

Notice how they do not appear flat like a drawing on a piece of paper. You are also looking down at a angle from a standing position and not from a straight on view like looking at a piece of paper.

I've mentioned offset before. Using these pic, what I mean is that the contact point is offset to the CB direction of travel line to where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball.

So when someone says they look at the contact point on the object ball or even at the OB, this means that their eyes are not looking at where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball. If looking at the contact point or the 3 ball itself, on this shot,this means the eyes are looking to the left of where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball.

As the cut angle increases, this offset becomes greater which means that if they are looking at the OB or its contact point on a high degree cut shot, the distance to where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball is greater.

This also means the the contact point on the CB is gonna be offset to the CB direction of travel of line. So now you are aligning two points offset to CB direction of travel line.

Also, as CB to OB distance increases is in the second pic, trying to aligning two contacts, one being in the back side of the CB, looking at the contact point on the OB which is not where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball is very challenging more so than trying to place the CB where it needs with contact patch.

With contact patch, your eyes are always on where the CB needs to be. They never need to look at the OB once you pick the spot on the table.

With contact patch, you are trying to roll the bottom of the CB, ie place, over the spot on the table that pockets the ball, not trying to have some point on the CB hit some point on the OB. And as Ive mentioned before, the top of the CB is 180 from the contact patch, so the top can be used to sight the shot where the CB needs to be to pocket the ball. Using the arrow, you can sight the top of the CB to the arrow's point. That is the closet thing to real aiming in pool.

Also, using the arrow, you could place your cue tip on the arrow and rotate it until the center of the cue is over the top of the CB in order to get a reference for the CB direction of travel.

Contact patch is way simpler and easier to use than CTE. Contact patch concerns itself with only one line not multiple ones. Contact patch only line of concern is the direction of travel of the CB. No need for multiple DVD's, Youtubes nor a text book style manual or personal lessons.

Just my simple little drawing and Babe Cranfields arrow to train with and your good to go......all can be had for free.

There is no simpler, easier way to learn pool than ghost ball contact patch.

Oh yeah, how come no one else uses real world pics of shots as examples? Really......come on, take a pic from the standing position and using a photo editing software, add all those nice little that are shown in 2d and if CTE users "see" lines in their mind, than those lines should be able to be added to the photo.

Why do you always mention CTE? Can't your system or way of doing things stand on it's own?.

 

[justadub]

I'm just a dumb, non-scientific hack who can barely run three balls.

But even someone as simple minded as myself can understand that the place on the ball that is either at 3 oclock or 9 oclock is the edge of the ball. Just like on a clock face. Pretty neat, huh? Since that's the furthest extreme in either direction of the ball, and its where two balls will meet.

(I haven't tried to learn CTE or any other aiming system as I don't have the proper time to truly "practice" it and give myself the time to truly learn. I have no table at home and limited time at the pool room, which doesn't lend itself to structured practice of any "system", or even Dr. Dave's Billiard University program. So unlike many here that will expound on the viability of any given system or technique without experience with it, I simply try to read as much as I can and hope some stuff sticks in my brain. Everyone has something they can share with others, at one point or another.)

Everything else seems to be arguing for arguments sake. To me. Objectively (sorry, couldn't resist, )