Question on cue repair

boyersj

boyersj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wish this forum existed years ago, as I have a situation that I have tried to approach the correct way but ran into complications.

I have an older Schon cue, ST11 from 1993 that I truly love. After I had it a couple years I stopped to have lunch on my way to the pool room. It was hot out, but in a case. When I pulled the cue out to play, the finish was EXTREMELY damaged. It was heart breaking that my first cue purchase had this happen. I lived in the Fort Wayne area, and contacted a local cue builder. Great guy, and I am sure he will find this thread. Send me a PM to say hi if you do!

Anyhow he sent the cue to Schon and they refused to work on the cue because it was "touched by someone else" which was not true. I bought the cue brand new from Cuestix international (and they were one of very few vendors in the early 90's) but because Evan refused to fix it, my friend did a wonderful job. it looked great for a few years, and then I moved away from the area to go to college. After finishing college and getting into the working world, I pulled my cue out of the case and again was displeased to see a few cracks in the finish and bad discoloration inside the finish. I did some research and sent it to one of the highest acclaimed repairman in the country and the cue again looked stellar.

But, now the cracks have returned. There appears to be some grain separation that I would hope can be repaired so it does not continue to need refinished. Before I send the cue out *again* I truly am looking for feedback from a variety of cuemakers/repairmen who can indicate if this cue can be repaired to where the finish will no longer crack. I will email pictures directly to anyone who requests, as they are too large to post to get the detail needed to see the wood.

I want to fix this cue, and wish Evan wouldn't have refused years ago that put me into this situation. The cue has never been abused, but was victum to stressed wood.

Thanks in advanced to any feedback!
 
Sorry for your troubles, before going through this again, A question you should ask who ever it is that you plan on refinishing it would be,
Do you treat a refinish like it's a new cue finish, meaning, Does it get stripped and sealed before the new finish is applied. Something for you to look at on your own would be, what condition is your case in? and I'm purely guessing here. Is it wet or anything out of the ordinary?
 
I know both times the cue was completely stripped. I saw it first hand the first time, and the second time in the ebony there was some discoloration that was repaired that required a full strip. As far as the case, It resided in a brand new instroke after the most recent finish and it cracked in the exact same location. So it is very difficult to root cause the case as a contributor.

The reason I started this thread is to make very sure that whomever repairs the cue (if I can get a volunteer) is crystal clear prior to looking at the cue the history. I believe if that aspect was understood, it can be properly repaired to not damage itself. I don't expect some kind of warranty, but would hope for a highly confident repair.

I have noticed that super glue has been mentioned as a potential finish, and while it intuitively would seem difficult to work with, I wonder how effective it would be to cover the "defective areas" with super glue prior to a typical finish. I am not into cue repair, but I am an engineer and understand how materials work and fully believe with the correct resolution to the grain problem, a permanent solution can exist! :)
 
Well the area is just above the wrap. As I said, I have pictures but to see the detail they are quite large and I would prefer to email them. As far as the material used on the finish, I am not quite certain. I would need to check with the repairmen.

Since the quality of work is not in question because they would have no idea that the finish would crack I will state that the first person to refinish the cue around 1996/1997 was KJ Simpson. As stated, beautiful job. More recently Scot Sherbine repaired the cue in 2008. Again, amazing "brand new" looking cue. The cue was basically not used from about 1999 - 2003, and then again from 2005 - 2008.

I know KJ frequents the forum, and I believe others would be familiar enough with Sherbine's work to know what he uses for finish.

Just and FYI if anyone at DCC would like to look at the cue I will be there this weekend at some point!
 
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I would suspect that Evan didn't want to work on it due to ego. Obviously something occurred that he didn't want to admit, or probably couldn't even explain. But to respond with I refuse to work on it after someone else touches it... knowing it was then going to be touched and thus make his accusation correct...

Regardless, I have seen some pretty extensively damaged cues repaired, this "small" issue should be able to be repaired so at least the finish will last much longer than it has, like i said... as long as it is crystal clear that there is some type of wood defect that needs to be corrected instead of just a typical refinish job. I am definitely willing to pay to have the necessary work done :)
 
Here are photographs of the cue. I will add some more later tonight.

M1010003.jpg


M1010005.jpg


M1020001.jpg


M1020002.jpg
 
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Looks like it is originating in the ring work...they could be expanding and contracting enough to pop the finish... I have seen many schons have this problem
 
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boyersj said:
Well the area is just above the wrap. As I said, I have pictures but to see the detail they are quite large and I would prefer to email them. As far as the material used on the finish, I am not quite certain. I would need to check with the repairmen.

Since the quality of work is not in question because they would have no idea that the finish would crack I will state that the first person to refinish the cue around 1996/1997 was KJ Simpson. As stated, beautiful job. More recently Scot Sherbine repaired the cue in 2008. Again, amazing "brand new" looking cue. The cue was basically not used from about 1999 - 2003, and then again from 2005 - 2008.

I know KJ frequents the forum, and I believe others would be familiar enough with Sherbine's work to know what he uses for finish.

Just and FYI if anyone at DCC would like to look at the cue I will be there this weekend at some point!
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,
Long time no see.
I remember that you were heading off to college when you first brought this cue to me.
The reason I originally suggested that you send it to Schon was because it is in need
of a repair that I was not in a position to undertake.
Even at that time, early to mid-nineties, I knew that Schon would dis-own the cue if I
or anyone else performed work on it.
The repair it needed then is the same repair that it needs now; your forearm is broke.
Just above the deco-ring, the V-splices are split and allowing the 'A' joint to flex.
Every time it flexes it splits the finish.
The forearm needs to be replaced which is why I said to send it to Schon.
At that time I wasn't cutting points, no CNC & no ivory. Still don't use CNC or ivory.

Unless you've had the wrap changed since then, I don't believe that I refinished the whole cue.
The reason I know this is because the wrap cordage is wound opposite of the direction I go.
If I had refinished the cue, I would have removed the wrap and installed new when I was
done with the refinish. Meaning, if I did the wrap, it would be wound it the other direction.

That was many years ago and details tend to get fuzzy with age.
I remember you telling me that someone broke with the cue while you were in the can.
This would have been at Billy Lewis's when he was still on Getz Rd. so you know that was
a while ago. Good memories there. That's where I first met Mike Stacey, you and several other players.
My guess is that whoever used it, leaned into their break, bending the cue and split the forearm.
I also suspect that Evan took one look at it and decided you would be better-off buying a new cue.
That's just speculation because I have no way of knowing what the thought process was at Schon.

Anyway, I know that you really love this cue but the forearm needs to be replaced.
Schon either has one or they could make an identical replacement, jiffy quick.
They don't have any qualms with using ivory either.

I certainly can't tell you what to do at this point but I would suggest that you might
want to consider putting this cue up and maybe buying another Schon.
After all, you've been playing with this one 20 yrs or so now, right?
Properly repairing this cue is going to be expensive and because of the ivory & CNC,
I have to recuse myself.
The one person that comes to mind that may be able to help you if you decide to move forward
with a repair would be my buddy Ryan Theewen at Muellers.
His work is very good and he's fair on his pricing. Maybe 1/2 of what Schon would charge.

Thanx for the trip down memory-lane and LMK if I can be of further assistance.
Call Ryan and get a quote. Stop by if you get up this way. I'm still on the lake.

KJ
 
Thanks for the love guys. I've got a couple of ideas that may work. Send me the cue and I'll see what I can do.

Mueller Rec Products
c/o Ryan
4825 S 16th St
Lincoln NE 68512

Along with the cue, send a note stating who you are, what you want done, and contact info.
 
I thought I could see a crack in the pictures. First thing I thought was that if it were mine, after 20 years I wouldn't want the forearm replaced I would want it repaired, but I figured the advice would be to replace it.

My fist thought about who to talk to was Ryan. If it can be repaired I would bet on him first. Not that others couldn't but he has repeatedly done what I thought could not be done. I have yet to have the pleasure myself but from all I have seen, he is the first I would go to with such a thing.

He has replied, his contact info is there, I would get in touch with him. People who know a lot more than me have already said so, I am just chiming in to support the idea. :thumbup:

Ryan, if you fix this, would you post pics? I would love to see the results of two decades of frustration put to an end. Having had a long relationship with a cue myself I know how much it would mean. I know anything can be fixed, but to repair versus replace parts is always a different matter IMHO.
 
Thank you all for the wonderful feedback!

KJ - it has been a long time. Last I talked to you, you were working with Seyberts, how is that relationship working out? They are great folks and in fact I did buy a new Schon from them when the ST-11 went to Proficient. It looks nice, but surely doesn't play the same, so it became my break cue with a custom shaft build by mr Steve Lomax who is another awesome individual. So, I do have a "back up" I will look you up next time I come to NE indiana. I tried to a christmas a few years ago but timing didn't permit. I will surely be coming up sometime between now and spring.

Regarding the repairs done on this back in the late 90's you are exactly correct, you did not redo the wrap and left a bit of finish. You showed me the cue prior to finishing because you wanted to make sure I had a voice. Also you made me a little jump butt for my spare shaft. I used that a long time until it got stole in Indianapolis (where I got my first job post-college). Of course now I have a Lomax 3-pc jump cue, awesome piece of equipment.

In the last year, I took a break from pool (again) to buy a beautiful home that houses the table seen in my avatar. I do not have a picture of my room, this is the table set-up where I bought it. I need to update the avatar! I just got things settled down and survived the holidays and am ready to again play pool on a regular basis since my fiancé and I have been together long enough that we spend time apart as well as time together :)

I miss the old USA billiards, I have yet to this day find a place that compared. I am quite fortunate to have been around that place. I miss many of the "gang" as I would drive the 30 miles at least 4 times a week. The Evansville scene is interesting, good collection of players but there is a lot more focus on gambling even in practice. I have done well but its rare to just spend 6 hours practicing with friends like we used to do on Getz Rd on a daily basis. I guess the absence of free pool realy has driven that and I still am amazed Billy did free pool all those years. I guess that is why I don’t want to scrap the cue, it has a vast amount of memories and a wonderful story of my life.

As far as moving on with the cue, you and I know that Schon already refused the repair 15 yrs ago. There is no reason to ship it there for a new forearm. Since Ryan has some ideas and has requested the cue and has probably as much acclaims as anyone could ever have he will be receiving it. If KJ states that Ryan is the man, then it is time to see what he has to say.

Prior to shipping the cue, I will call just to get a feel for the repair. I do hope he will post photos of the cue after the finish is stripped, after repairs have been done to the wood, and then I will post photographs after I receive it. You guys are great and I am quite hopeful this can turned into a “happily ever after” story!
 
If the forearm is stable. Meaning cracked but not moving. I would suggest laying in an ebony inlay that is a little longer than the crack that is rounded like a butterfly point on the end. Then skip about an 1/8" and put another rounded inlay in to give in between the points a black, natural, black butterfly pattern. If the inlays are laid in pretty deep and the only cracking is up the side of the point and in between the points then that should make it structurally sound and still look nice.
 
The appearance is a non issue, I had to use our HD video camera about 3 inches away in order to get photographs clear enough to demonstrate the issue. Besides, it gives the cue character! The real problem is the finish continues to crack (from the inside, out) so like KJ said there is something moving (I am not familiar with the terminology, lol). I initially thought it was a thermal expansion issue, but according to KJ, and he saw the cue initially damaged, there is physical movement causing the finish damage.

I called to talk to Ryan but he was unavailable, but I will talk to him today and we will develop a plan. I'll repair the cue if it is possible to repair without a new forearm. it means too much to me and represents too much for me to set it on a shelf like a trophy!
 
Unfortunately I can attest that you are not the first, or only person that has had problems with the forearm of there Schon.
A few years back a friend who had an older Schon started to have problems with the finish in the same area as you. He never really dealt with it and continued to play with it. Well, one day it just split into two pieces rite above the wrap. Schon did fix the cue but charger him 150 for the repair.

Hopefully you get your problem resolved. From all that I have read Ryan is the perfect guy for this job.
 
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