What type of level(s) do you use to level the slate. I use six Starrett 98-12 machinist levels. I am very curious as to what others do.
Question to Mechanics
- Thread starter PoolTable911
- Start date
I am using 3 right now, 2- 6 inchers and an 8 inch. I can see the benefit of using more.
OTLB
Banned
the min requirement is 4 IMO, another question would be how do you use them. This to me is really the issue. ie do they rock across the seams? do you add slate screw holes when only 4 are present? and so on
in my avatar there are 2 18 and 2 27's all at .0003 if these sit on a table and read poorly it doesn't mean the table is off much but it is off none the less. Knowing how flat the slate is after your done leveling requires a straight edge or kick ass levels like these
could probably level a table with a plate lightly filled with water and get it close, I think I will try that, might be good for the youtubers
in my avatar there are 2 18 and 2 27's all at .0003 if these sit on a table and read poorly it doesn't mean the table is off much but it is off none the less. Knowing how flat the slate is after your done leveling requires a straight edge or kick ass levels like these
could probably level a table with a plate lightly filled with water and get it close, I think I will try that, might be good for the youtubers
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At what point does the overabundance of precision levels become ridiculous?
This isn't meant to be an insult at anyone's methods. I myself use a couple of Starretts. But as OTLB inferred w/ his comment about the plate of water, most mechanics could level a decent table without any levels at all. Of course that's not what anyone should do.
But really... isn't it overkill to haul around a grand worth of levels that can discern the thickness of a sheet of notebook paper?
One thing I've never heard in the pool hall:
"No wonder this table plays like shit! Some asshole put a sheet of notebook paper under one of the legs!" (Although I suspect that at some point in time Earl Strickland may have had this thought).
This isn't meant to be an insult at anyone's methods. I myself use a couple of Starretts. But as OTLB inferred w/ his comment about the plate of water, most mechanics could level a decent table without any levels at all. Of course that's not what anyone should do.
But really... isn't it overkill to haul around a grand worth of levels that can discern the thickness of a sheet of notebook paper?
One thing I've never heard in the pool hall:
"No wonder this table plays like shit! Some asshole put a sheet of notebook paper under one of the legs!" (Although I suspect that at some point in time Earl Strickland may have had this thought).
ChrisShanklin
Banned
I couldn't agree more.
Again, no disrespect to anyone's methods.
OTLB
Banned
as my good friend Glen says, level is level, how you get there doesn't really matter.
I do know a few things about levels and its not always about the bubble being in the middle. Formyself, I have never seen a perfectly level table.
This is just like my thread on stretching 860. there should be a std.
If you could buy a 50 inch starrett, would you? or why not. I know one thing else, when I arrive at the job and they say "its the pool table man" I tell them how well their table will be leveled by showing them. I do use better levels on Billiard and snooker tables. and how many of you guys use a straight edge. Hey Pat, I will be in NJ next month, lets work together on some shit tables. Those are the ones that are not so easy. Might be fun, actually I know it would be. Off to the gym.
In closing its not about how level it is, how do you make sure it stays that way. And I'm not talking about super glue or not using anything in the seams.
If you have never used a fine level or one that is like 27 inches long you can NOT voice an opinion because you have absolutley no experience. And thats what we are talking about. Experience. Not the same day over and over experience. Trying new things. better things. dif things.
BIggest problem with my armada is carrying them. Maybe the Derby City Classic would like to have me certify their tables before the tournament
Great thread Pat, maybe I will loan you out one of my 27 inch ones. Our friend Al had two 50 inch ones. fyi
I do know a few things about levels and its not always about the bubble being in the middle. Formyself, I have never seen a perfectly level table.
This is just like my thread on stretching 860. there should be a std.
If you could buy a 50 inch starrett, would you? or why not. I know one thing else, when I arrive at the job and they say "its the pool table man" I tell them how well their table will be leveled by showing them. I do use better levels on Billiard and snooker tables. and how many of you guys use a straight edge. Hey Pat, I will be in NJ next month, lets work together on some shit tables. Those are the ones that are not so easy. Might be fun, actually I know it would be. Off to the gym.
In closing its not about how level it is, how do you make sure it stays that way. And I'm not talking about super glue or not using anything in the seams.
If you have never used a fine level or one that is like 27 inches long you can NOT voice an opinion because you have absolutley no experience. And thats what we are talking about. Experience. Not the same day over and over experience. Trying new things. better things. dif things.
BIggest problem with my armada is carrying them. Maybe the Derby City Classic would like to have me certify their tables before the tournament
Great thread Pat, maybe I will loan you out one of my 27 inch ones. Our friend Al had two 50 inch ones. fyi
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LOL I beat you to this one a few months ago. Told everyone that I use a plastic Tupperware bowl, marked with a Sharpie and filled with water to the line. Someone asked how accurate that could possibly be. LOL I recommend using a Fine Point Sharpie.
OTLB
Banned
LOL I beat you to this one a few months ago. Told everyone that I use a plastic Tupperware bowl, marked with a Sharpie and filled with water to the line. Someone asked how accurate that could possibly be. LOL I recommend using a Fine Point Sharpie.
yes I will give you all the credit for stating that you use a bowl to level a table
Now lets see your lasers
I saw that one in Charlotte at the BCA trade show. Guy at the Olhausen booth was marketing the Laser Level. Just a laser pointer hanging from a hook pointed down onto a grid on it's base. Interesting idea, and I like that it gives you a 2D look at the level instead of linear like with what we all use, but didn't seem calibrated correctly, and from what I heard, took longer to level a table than using Starretts. The people I talked to that tried it said they were chasing it around the table for hours. Cool idea though.
I watched the guy from Diamond at the Super Billiard EXPO setup the 9 ft one piece slate Diamond tables and he had 32 6" levels on the table.
He said it was so he could tweek every spot on the slate.
I thought it was over kill but he said that's the way it had to be done to be right.
He said it was so he could tweek every spot on the slate.
I thought it was over kill but he said that's the way it had to be done to be right.
level
How accurate will diamond prove there slates to be milled and cut???? Brunswick assures there slate to be accurate to ten thousands of a inch from one end to the other...starretts are more accurate than what most table slate specs are..u may find a small void here or there but its not enough to make a ball roll off once leveled properly...I use a few levels but sometimes only one...I used a 18 inch starrett 98 for the first years...then stared using a 12 inch with it..then the more I thought to myself, I accumulated more starrett levels and started using high quality 2 foot carpenter levels with a starrett on top..I own just about every Well known size 98 starrett but a ten incher witch I don't see a need for...my favorite 98 starrett to use is a modified 5 inch and a nice 2 foot carpenters level..I used a leveling system close to glens low-low leveling system when I was first taught."Level frame"..then basically finding the high end and the low end of slate and working the lows to the highest point till level with shims under slate....simple...no need to climb under table and lift it With ur back on ur hands and knees to add flat shims under table legs with the slate on it as you would have to do if using only a straight edge and a bowl of water...now that I worked with u great guys in alsip and traded ideas,pointers,knowledge with the best in the industries...no need for a 32 levels...use the leveling cards as glen does.."we all know there was a few top notch mechanics that couldn't make it or had all ready had trained with glen or jay"..I understand not everyone uses the exact same methods but the install and repairing methods glen and jay are instructing/using is the best.....
Starrett is a must have for good install that will be sure to play accurate...if u are using anything other than a well calibrated #98 starrett your wasting your money and time chasing the bubble of a masters level....
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32 starrets is over kill for sure.."Use the leveling cards"
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Have a happy new year
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Rob.M
How accurate will diamond prove there slates to be milled and cut???? Brunswick assures there slate to be accurate to ten thousands of a inch from one end to the other...starretts are more accurate than what most table slate specs are..u may find a small void here or there but its not enough to make a ball roll off once leveled properly...I use a few levels but sometimes only one...I used a 18 inch starrett 98 for the first years...then stared using a 12 inch with it..then the more I thought to myself, I accumulated more starrett levels and started using high quality 2 foot carpenter levels with a starrett on top..I own just about every Well known size 98 starrett but a ten incher witch I don't see a need for...my favorite 98 starrett to use is a modified 5 inch and a nice 2 foot carpenters level..I used a leveling system close to glens low-low leveling system when I was first taught."Level frame"..then basically finding the high end and the low end of slate and working the lows to the highest point till level with shims under slate....simple...no need to climb under table and lift it With ur back on ur hands and knees to add flat shims under table legs with the slate on it as you would have to do if using only a straight edge and a bowl of water...now that I worked with u great guys in alsip and traded ideas,pointers,knowledge with the best in the industries...no need for a 32 levels...use the leveling cards as glen does.."we all know there was a few top notch mechanics that couldn't make it or had all ready had trained with glen or jay"..I understand not everyone uses the exact same methods but the install and repairing methods glen and jay are instructing/using is the best.....
Starrett is a must have for good install that will be sure to play accurate...if u are using anything other than a well calibrated #98 starrett your wasting your money and time chasing the bubble of a masters level....
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32 starrets is over kill for sure.."Use the leveling cards"
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Have a happy new year
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Rob.M
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I have a half a dozen starrets, most are 12" but also have up to 18 inch and down to 6 inch. Also have a 4 foot Empire level and a 6 footer, for starting frames and checking things over.
Mostly, I only use a couple of Starretts with leveling cards to dial things in, I used to put out several levels but since you can never really read more than 4 at once, I generally just stick with 2-3 on most cases.
My levels are calibrated fairly often, are put into Starret cases at the end of every use, and are wiped clean and clear everytime I touch them.
And I still roll balls on naked slate to check over things.
I would never buy a longer one to level a table, just for the simple fact that it will skip over any imperfections that a small level will find in the slate.
A small valley or ridge may hide from a level that stretches across the distance, but it can't hide form one that finds the edges of the problem.
Happy New Year's guys! Hope that 2010 sees more educated customers than 2009!
Mostly, I only use a couple of Starretts with leveling cards to dial things in, I used to put out several levels but since you can never really read more than 4 at once, I generally just stick with 2-3 on most cases.
My levels are calibrated fairly often, are put into Starret cases at the end of every use, and are wiped clean and clear everytime I touch them.
And I still roll balls on naked slate to check over things.
I would never buy a longer one to level a table, just for the simple fact that it will skip over any imperfections that a small level will find in the slate.
A small valley or ridge may hide from a level that stretches across the distance, but it can't hide form one that finds the edges of the problem.
Happy New Year's guys! Hope that 2010 sees more educated customers than 2009!
Please explain why you need more then one starret level,I guess 4 or more could come in handy if you have like eight eyes.But I just can't see the advantage knowing you can only read one at a time.Not trying here to bend anyone's ego just trying to learn further.I've been playing around since 91" never to late to learn more.
I used to use one 98-12 but as you know when you shim one side of the slate it effects the other side of the slate and you do alot of tail chasing. By useing multiple levels you see how your shim effects the slate in other areas. You can move around the table quickly and dial in the levels. This has cut my leveling time in half. And I only have 2 eyes. :thumbup:
Using more than one level will reveal a light leg, not to mention it's much easier to account for sag across the slates, simply placing a level on the center of a slate across the short axis and getting a level reading means nothing. placing a level on each flank will often reveal a sag or crown in a slate.
Hey Bob!!! Welcome to the Forum.
I dunno, reading the posts alot of you guys have written I still find myself shaking my head. I use one four foot Empire level and one 12" Starrett. I've never seen the need for more. I'm a little confused at the comments about liking small levels because you can find imperfections in the slate. If you find a "valley" in the slate of a few thousands of an inch that runs between points that are 12-18", what the hell can you do about it? If the game were played with marbles on a glass surface I could understand what some of you are saying. But my job isn't to correct a manufacturing anomaly that results in a "valley" on the table that's imperceptible to anyone actually playing pool on cloth and rolling the balls at more than .0005 miles per hour.
To be honest, I view the levels I use as much as a tool to reassure the customer as a tool for me to level the table. I'll use a ball on bare slate any day of the week and get results that any pro would be happy with.
To be honest, I view the levels I use as much as a tool to reassure the customer as a tool for me to level the table. I'll use a ball on bare slate any day of the week and get results that any pro would be happy with.