not so,,,,,,,,,,,
Questions for you custom cue players
- Thread starter TheAggressor
- Start date
not so,,,,,,,,,,,
I never said he didn't use Titleist woods, but he did play Nike irons before they were available for retail.
Absolutely so. The shaft will perform the exact same way, regardless of the butt design. A cue butt is purely personal preference. The butt of the cue doesn't flex in any way that makes a shaft perform better. It just provides feedback to your hand. You may think the butt has performance characteristics, but the only person that seems to think a butt design has any performance advantage is Ronny Powell from QuePerfect, and Bob Meucci with the Power Piston design. Funny how no one has actually been able to prove that the butt has any significant performance advantage.
It's all personal feel. And the ferrule and tip, and shaft design, will do FAR MORE than any joint material or pin type will for hit.
How's This Math.......
I have owned and sold 6 custom cues.....over the past 10 years........I never lost a penny on any of these cues sold even with a downtrodden resale market the past few years, Heck, I actually made a profit on every cue sale and on one sale I netted me a $900 profit. My experience is also very contemporaneous since my most recent sale of a custom cue sale was last month.
As far as I know, there aren't any production cues I could have extensively played like my other cues, subsequently listed the cues for sale (all my custom cues sold fast....under 2 weeks) and never lose a red cent. On my cue sales, I actually turned a profit on every single custom cue I sold.......6 for 6. There's nothing wrong with preferring to own or play with a production cue instead of a custom made cue. So just enjoy those cues and play well but be prepared for a hit on the sale price you'd probably get versus what you originally spent for that production cue.....unless you acquired the cue at a terrific price.
Matt B.
I have owned and sold 6 custom cues.....over the past 10 years........I never lost a penny on any of these cues sold even with a downtrodden resale market the past few years, Heck, I actually made a profit on every cue sale and on one sale I netted me a $900 profit. My experience is also very contemporaneous since my most recent sale of a custom cue sale was last month.
As far as I know, there aren't any production cues I could have extensively played like my other cues, subsequently listed the cues for sale (all my custom cues sold fast....under 2 weeks) and never lose a red cent. On my cue sales, I actually turned a profit on every single custom cue I sold.......6 for 6. There's nothing wrong with preferring to own or play with a production cue instead of a custom made cue. So just enjoy those cues and play well but be prepared for a hit on the sale price you'd probably get versus what you originally spent for that production cue.....unless you acquired the cue at a terrific price.
Matt B.
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In my experience, cue sellers VASTLY exaggerate what they make on a cue. It's like when you go to the doctor, and they ask how many drinks you have per week. They take your answer, and multiply by 2, because they know people lie.
I have yet to see anyone cleaning up selling custom cues, unless they're on a wait list for several of the high end makers, or are directly dealing for them. Otherwise, in my vast experience selling cues myself (Thomas Wayne, Josey, Jensen, etc), you either break even at best, make a couple of bucks once in a blue moon, and lose money otherwise. I've sold more than 6 customs. More like 40. And on the vast majority, I still lost money. And that's over the past 16 years.
I agree with ya. Rolls Royce has one guy hand building the engine for that particular car, nobody else touches it. The rest of Rolls parts are unique ONLY to Rolls, so they design their cars from the ground up, and are made in limited quantities at the highest end of the market, upwards of $400K for one vehicle.
Yet, nobody can say a Rolls is gonna last longer or be more reliable than a Lexus, which has been at the top of the heap for quite some time in the "mass" produced market of vehicles....and at a tiny fraction of the cost. Of course, nobody is gonna ever collect a Lexus, and that's fine, they are not works of art, but reliable luxury to be driven daily.
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Maybe It's The Cues You Selected......
There ya go again....making the leap and falling flat on your face.......never said anyone would get rich selling custom cues but interestingly there are still lots of successful cue dealers still around....probably just a coincidence.
If you select handsome cues with the right design, features, cue specifications, and the cue-maker is also highly regarded & the cue is kept in great condition, you'll do just fine when you sell that custom cue. And for me, breaking even would be doing just fine or even losing only a couple of hundred bucks after playing with a expensive cue for years and years. So buy a $2500 or $5000 custom cue, play with it for 5-6-8-10 years or longer and then sell that very cue and not take a big hit on the price.......that's okay with me......but you can also make a profit as well when you select and buy the right cues and cue-makers which I always make a point of doing.
Matt B.
There ya go again....making the leap and falling flat on your face.......never said anyone would get rich selling custom cues but interestingly there are still lots of successful cue dealers still around....probably just a coincidence.
If you select handsome cues with the right design, features, cue specifications, and the cue-maker is also highly regarded & the cue is kept in great condition, you'll do just fine when you sell that custom cue. And for me, breaking even would be doing just fine or even losing only a couple of hundred bucks after playing with a expensive cue for years and years. So buy a $2500 or $5000 custom cue, play with it for 5-6-8-10 years or longer and then sell that very cue and not take a big hit on the price.......that's okay with me......but you can also make a profit as well when you select and buy the right cues and cue-makers which I always make a point of doing.
Matt B.
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Can you show me where I fell flat on my face? I said "cleaning up", not getting rich. There are particular cues that will continue to make money. Unfortunately, there aren't any more of them being made. An original Gus will continue to make money. A Scruggs will do well on the open market. TAD, Gina, etc. However, I would challenge your "still lots of successful cue dealers around" statement. There are less of them now than there were 7 years ago. You see a few of them on here, and they're doing OK. But there were a lot more websites where guys were selling custom cues a few years back, and where are they now? Out of the business. It's a niche market. And the appeal is fading with the new generation. I love pool. I wanted to own a Scruggs 10 years ago. The desire faded with every year. There's a market for $1000 cigars, $20k bottles of scotch, and $1M cars. I won't be buying any of them, but I don't begrudge anyone that does. Good for them.
I'm not badmouthing any custom makers. They perform a service. Are their cues beautiful? Absolutely. But do they do anything a production maker doesn't? Nope. They take wood, cut stuff into it, and make an abomination that we call a pool cue. There are guys that really sweat the tolerances of their cues, like Searing and Lambros. Do they hit well? Absolutely. Will they pocket balls any better than a good quality, straight production cue? No. There isn't a lot of rocket science going on in pool. You have a straight stick with a compressible material on the end that holds chalk, and pushes a ball in a direction. Aside from straightness, and consistency of play, everything else is preference.
Again, I'll say this, slowly, so you'll understand it. CUSTOM CUES ARE DEFINITELY BETTER THAN PRODUCTION IN TERMS OF CONSIDERING CUES AS INVESTMENTS. I don't consider a cue as an investment. It's a tool for me. Similar to my table saw, mitre saw, etc. It has a purpose. I don't have a collection of custom hammers in my basement. I use Estwing hammers, because they're good quality, and drive nails. Same with cues. I've chosen to purchase a tool that helps me play the game to my highest potential. I'm not hung up on the highest quality finish, the nicest inlays, etc. I use a cue to hit a cueball. In that regard, all cues do their job. To preach that a custom cue will play any better than a production cue is purely a qualitative statement, as it's purely subject to the opinion of the user. But, if you hand me a straight cue, Searing or Cuetec, once I get used to the hit of the cue, I will still pocket balls the way I did with my cue. Hit and feel aren't an exclusive feature to custom cues only.
Just shoot a rack of 9 ball with it...and don't rush through it, just shoot. If it hits great or like crap, you'll know, you won't have to put any thought or concentration into it. No need to hit with tons of stroke or slow roll, just shoot how you normally do. It will tell you what you need to know.
There was a round table discussion with some top cue makers many years ago. Believe it's on YouTube. Anyways some believed they were selling art. some believed playability was very important and others didnt. You can watch for yourself and take from it what you will. I wasn't impressed with some makers attitudes towards playability. Sorry don't have the link.
After NUMEROUS posts in this thread I think everyone gets that you like production cues, great for you. To continually beat a dead horse brings to mind "thou doth protest too much". Lighten up Francis, no need to get your panties in a bunch.
The personal feel that a player gets from a cue is what determines whether or not he likes the cues, and changing the butt and keeping the same shaft will absolutely affect that feel, just as putting different shafts on the same butt. every combination will be different.
You are kind all over the place in this thread honestly. I can't figure if you are pissed because you lost money flipping cues, tried your hand at making them and couldn't, or couldn't sell them, or maybe you own a retail shop. Do you begrudge cuemakers for making cues for some reason, or just don't have a nice custom so you advise others against buying them,,,,,,,hard as hell to tell really.
OP, just shop around and look at and play with as many cues as you can until you find something you feel good about paying for. It's not a big deel if it hits a little hard or soft for you, a good repairman/cuemaker can dial that in easy enough with a some tip and/or ferrule work. Take your time, there is a lot of good choices out there.
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I seriously doubt that you would take a loss on a SW cue a year later.
If it is in good shape, you are going to get a price close to new considering how long you have to stay in line for one. Get it refinished from SW before you sell and add 1500 dollars to the price.
The other thing to remember is the prices of customs also depends on the desirability of the makers cues, including if the maker is still making cues.
Have you seen the prices of Balabuska's?
If it is in good shape, you are going to get a price close to new considering how long you have to stay in line for one. Get it refinished from SW before you sell and add 1500 dollars to the price.
The other thing to remember is the prices of customs also depends on the desirability of the makers cues, including if the maker is still making cues.
Have you seen the prices of Balabuska's?
When I was a kid, I played with Kmart cue, my first real-name production was a Meucci. Since then, I have only played with Southwest, Scruggs or -R-'s.
Currently I am playing with a custom from a friend of mine who is now making cues. We collaborated on every aspect of the cue.
I am not playing with my high dollar customs because at this point, if something happens to them, I cannot get them replaced.
I am also a bit different in that I play with the shafts that the cue maker designs shafts. It never made sense to me to play with a high dollar custom, with an aftermarket shaft.
Besides I like ferrules that squirt the cueball a lot.
Currently I am playing with a custom from a friend of mine who is now making cues. We collaborated on every aspect of the cue.
I am not playing with my high dollar customs because at this point, if something happens to them, I cannot get them replaced.
I am also a bit different in that I play with the shafts that the cue maker designs shafts. It never made sense to me to play with a high dollar custom, with an aftermarket shaft.
Besides I like ferrules that squirt the cueball a lot.
Cues are like women, she may be a dog to you, but the cats meow to me.:thumbup:
Hard on For custom cue makers
'Well it seems your opinion is bias, and you have a real hatred for some custom cue maker or custom cue makers.
Your hatred has blinded you, from the truth.
If you would actually listen to some of the replies you are getting you would see you are kind of on tilt mode .
Your twisting peoples words, and you must of over looked the word DESIGN.
Design is looks and playability and durability..................................................
Ps
I have 40 custom made shafts, I can roll all 40 across the pool table and they all roll straight.
I have never seen that with 40 production shafts,
I don't want to slam any cue maker, production or Custom. because there is no need for it because the cues that people play with and like is 99 % personal preference and affordability.
Everything you've mentioned has to do with aesthetics, and has nothing to do with the actual playability of the cue. Figured wood doesn't hit any better than non figured wood. George Balabushka only used straight grained maple, and used Titleist blanks for his cues. Most cuemakers buy Chris Hightower's book, get a lathe, and think they're going to become the next latest and greatest. The fact is the production cue houses know more about cues than the high end custom makers. The high end makers put money into their own pockets. Groups like Joss, McDermott and Viking have sponsored entire tours in the past. They also put high quality cues into people's hands for about a paycheck. Who does more for pool and the players? Think about it.
I also love your impression of people that work assembly lines, factory workers, and unskilled labour. If this is the stance of the custom cuemaker, to shit on the guy that works for an honest dollar to make a reasonable cue, then I'm glad I play production cues. Thanks for the lesson, Mike.
As I said, custom makers make very pretty cues. If you're looking at putting balls into pockets, and want something pretty, there isn't one custom maker that can touch Schon (custom, but considered "production" due to volume sales) on the planet. I have a $500 Viking that would cost $2k if it was done by a custom maker. And I doubt that many but the best custom makers could do it, as it required a 4 axis CNC inlay machine. Oh, and the shaft is straighter than anything I've played with - even the custom guy that hugs his wood before gently turning it every month
'Well it seems your opinion is bias, and you have a real hatred for some custom cue maker or custom cue makers.
Your hatred has blinded you, from the truth.
If you would actually listen to some of the replies you are getting you would see you are kind of on tilt mode .
Your twisting peoples words, and you must of over looked the word DESIGN.
Design is looks and playability and durability..................................................
Ps
I have 40 custom made shafts, I can roll all 40 across the pool table and they all roll straight.
I have never seen that with 40 production shafts,
I don't want to slam any cue maker, production or Custom. because there is no need for it because the cues that people play with and like is 99 % personal preference and affordability.
C'mon Mike, that's kinda silly. And yes, just like production cues, custom shafts warp, and probably more often.
The reason is because custom cue makers are all over the board, they go from terrible to Best of the Best...... So, if we took a sampling from all custom makers, the results would NOT be too good.
Plus, lets be honest, for the price of a new shaft, somebody is still thousands ahead of the game if their production shaft warped in a few years... big deal. And lets be honest, the climate and the customer will have more to do with warping than anything else...
So, custom cues warp too, and they dont' all know more about wood than Schmelke or the folks that have been doing it for decades....
For the record, I shoot with a Brunswick Willie Hoppe refinished and an OB shaft... funny, how a 75 year old non custom cue still seems to be going strong over 7 decades later
And I'm on the waiting list for a custom cuemaker, so I'm not a hater, just a realist.
7 pages and still non the wiser...
Custom vs production wasn`t really what the initial post was about.
The guy asked if he would get more playability out of a +1000$ custom cue, than the production cues in the $6-700 range he had tested.
My short answer would be: No.
If you choose a custom cue at that price, the best reason to do so would be to actually customize the cue to your liking.
How long do you like your cue?
Would you like to have an extension?
What pin do you like?
Wrap or wrapless?
If you like wraped cues, what kind of wrap do you prefer?
What joint collar material do you prefer?
Do you have a shaft prefrence, taper prefrence and tip diameter prefrence?
What weight would you like your cue to be?
What kind of wood(s) do you like?
That`s the type of questions you should ask yourself.
If you really don`t care about pin type, joint collar or how your cue is constructed, I would recomend that you play some more until you have a better idea of what you like or dislike.
The more spesific you can be in describing your dream cue, the better it will be for you and the cuebuilder of your choice.
Remember that as far as the hit goes, most of the feel comes down to the shaft, ferrule and most importantly what tip you use.
There is no magic cue out there, that can compensate for practicing and developing proper technique.
Custom vs production wasn`t really what the initial post was about.
The guy asked if he would get more playability out of a +1000$ custom cue, than the production cues in the $6-700 range he had tested.
My short answer would be: No.
If you choose a custom cue at that price, the best reason to do so would be to actually customize the cue to your liking.
How long do you like your cue?
Would you like to have an extension?
What pin do you like?
Wrap or wrapless?
If you like wraped cues, what kind of wrap do you prefer?
What joint collar material do you prefer?
Do you have a shaft prefrence, taper prefrence and tip diameter prefrence?
What weight would you like your cue to be?
What kind of wood(s) do you like?
That`s the type of questions you should ask yourself.
If you really don`t care about pin type, joint collar or how your cue is constructed, I would recomend that you play some more until you have a better idea of what you like or dislike.
The more spesific you can be in describing your dream cue, the better it will be for you and the cuebuilder of your choice.
Remember that as far as the hit goes, most of the feel comes down to the shaft, ferrule and most importantly what tip you use.
There is no magic cue out there, that can compensate for practicing and developing proper technique.
Customs don't play any better than decent production cue, many are actually worse.
It's all hype, looks and imaginary status. Every cue is a little different no matter who the maker is, as no two trees are alike.
Sticking the same shaft on two different cues, most likely will produce different hit and playability. I have two cues and bunch of shafts for them, and one butt is just more lively than the other.
Number one thing is to try before you buy.
It's all hype, looks and imaginary status. Every cue is a little different no matter who the maker is, as no two trees are alike.
Sticking the same shaft on two different cues, most likely will produce different hit and playability. I have two cues and bunch of shafts for them, and one butt is just more lively than the other.
Number one thing is to try before you buy.