DonKarmon said:
You are starting to sound like someone who just got asked to leave the building.
Quitters vs. Deadbeats.
- Thread starter Sore_Aintya
- Start date
You are starting to sound like someone who just got asked to leave the building.
OHB = OldHasBeen.DonKarmon said:
He used to post here under that screen name. Very nice and knowledgeable person that the AZ Billiards, Pool world, and world in general unfortunately lost a few months ago as he passed away.
someone else mentioned that it is never nice to have someone pull up on you w/o warning but hey, thems the breaks...doing that does tend to have a reflection on you future action though...DonKarmon said:
But his wisdom is still preserved in the archives here, isn't it?cheesemouse said:someone else mentioned that it is never nice to have someone pull up on you w/o warning but hey, thems the breaks...doing that does tend to have a reflection on you future action though...
Yes, it does. I find that it gets me more action with people who actually pay up when they lose, and I waste less time with welshers and weasels.
DonKarmon said:
The simple elegance of posting the money eliminates welshers, weasels and the preverbal airbarrel....
cheesemouse said:
I respectfully disagree. Why should I work for what someone is offering me for free?
Of course, when I say, "OK, I'll accept your forfeit; pay up," the weasel will argue that he's not forfeiting.
"Then we finish this match and loser pays," I reply.
"No, I want to start over," he says.
"There are no mulligans in pool. We'll just stop until you decide whether to forfeit or finish this match."
I wouldn't waste another grain of chalk until that decision was finalized, and the money was safely in neutral hands.
BTW, I agree with Aintya's assessment that Player A is the better of the two:
"Player B, while being a great shot, knows that player A is a even greater shot and is the odds on favorite."
Just not for that reason.
Player A is the better pool player because he was able to con Player B out of money that Player B had won.
Not better skilled, nobler, more gentlemanly, or nicer - just more effective.
"Player B, while being a great shot, knows that player A is a even greater shot and is the odds on favorite."
Just not for that reason.
Player A is the better pool player because he was able to con Player B out of money that Player B had won.
Not better skilled, nobler, more gentlemanly, or nicer - just more effective.
DonKarmon said:Yes, and backing up one's data every day eliminates the proverbial heartbreaks of disk crashes. But you know how that goes.
And occasionally, someone you have every reason to trust will surprise you with this kind of BS.
Pool exposes character, it doesn't necessarily build it.......proverbs 16:4
My rule
Tonight I was playing a guy I play often I really shouldn't have played him because I knew I would have to quit after a few hours.I asked him before we started when he was planning to leave.We were playing 5 a game and I got up 10 games right before the time he said he was going to have to leave.He just played right though that time and about 20 minutes later I told him in 30 minutes I was going to have to leave when I quit I told him to pay me next time or we could just continue where we left off.I never quit when I'm up and the other guy still wants to play.If I beat them this far I feel safe in the odds that I will keep on winning.My only thing is sometimes I wont let them raise the bet.If I win 200 at 10 a game in 3 hours I'm not going to make it a 100 a game and give you a chance to take it back easy.
Tonight I was playing a guy I play often I really shouldn't have played him because I knew I would have to quit after a few hours.I asked him before we started when he was planning to leave.We were playing 5 a game and I got up 10 games right before the time he said he was going to have to leave.He just played right though that time and about 20 minutes later I told him in 30 minutes I was going to have to leave when I quit I told him to pay me next time or we could just continue where we left off.I never quit when I'm up and the other guy still wants to play.If I beat them this far I feel safe in the odds that I will keep on winning.My only thing is sometimes I wont let them raise the bet.If I win 200 at 10 a game in 3 hours I'm not going to make it a 100 a game and give you a chance to take it back easy.
cheesemouse said:
Proverbs 16:4 (King James Version): The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Even dirtbags have their uses.
bigg7 said:
And I have a friend with whom I have played several times a week since 1989, for a buck a game. I'm up $889 as of today, but no money has ever changed hands. I doubt that any ever will, and I don't care. The longer the match runs, the more fun we have.
The match under discussion, however, was business.
You seem to be a gambler - someone who plays for the thrill of risk. A money player who is up plays until he no longer thinks he can win more often than he will lose, then stops with his profits maximized.
I have quit several times winner. But I always establish a pay after every set rule. One thing I have been known to do is........Maybe this will cure all your ills. 
If someone complains about me being up and giving them a chance to win their money back. Then being the gambler that I am, I always state...." Alright you got it, here's your chance......HEADS OR TAILS? I'm up 50 so flip for 50. One flip. If you lose you're down 100 and if you win you get even. That way I'm giving you a chance to win your money back and if you don't want to do it than you can't complain."
I think only one guy has chosen to take the flip and he lost..... Someone has got to give me rep for this one.....
If someone complains about me being up and giving them a chance to win their money back. Then being the gambler that I am, I always state...." Alright you got it, here's your chance......HEADS OR TAILS? I'm up 50 so flip for 50. One flip. If you lose you're down 100 and if you win you get even. That way I'm giving you a chance to win your money back and if you don't want to do it than you can't complain." I think only one guy has chosen to take the flip and he lost.....
Someone has got to give me rep for this one.....Mystick Cue Fan said:I have quit several times winner. But I always establish a pay after every set rule. One thing I have been known to do is........Maybe this will cure all your ills.
I think only one guy has chosen to take the flip and he lost.....
You all know you're going to do it......
A few comments as I have been in these situations many times:
Around here we call starting a set over and raising the stakes "back up double up". What it does is take some luck out of the outcome of that particular set. At hill-hill, the outcome of the set is determined by one game. But if you start over, you have an entire set to determine the outcome. And the bet is usually doubled so in affect its like winning two sets. I ask my opponents to back up double up frequently. But, I will do it when I feel I am the favorite, and the only reason it became hill-hill is because my opponent got lucky or I got unlucky for a few games. If the situation is reversed, and I feel it is hill-hill because I got lucky during the set, I will NOT back up double up, and just finish the set out.
This is in no way quitting, or forfeiting a set, as some of you are implying.
One time my opponent and I started over without doubling the bet. The race was to 15 and we were tied hill-hill. We had a large amount of money on the line and neither one of us wanted to risk it on one single game, each of us thinking we were the best player. The money was large enough that we both knew this session was only going to be one set, winner take all. So we both agreed to restart the set at the original bet.
Regarding the quitting ahead:
I was always the type who would go with my opponent till the end. I would not quit winner, and would hang with him until he quit. When I was loser, and the winner would up and quit, of course I would get angry. But I learned who these people were that would do this and just wouldn't play them anymore.
Some of you guys think its ok to just up and quit with no preset time or dollar amount. I think it is just bad etiquette. Sure, there are no laws, or rules, but the opponents will remember and you might find you will be running out of people to play.
Also, while it can certainly make one angry, you still have to pay up even if the guy quits on you. I was playing one guy a 100/rack backpocket 10 years ago. He got up 7 games on me and then said he quits. I was ready to kill him. We argued for a while but when it was all said and done I finally paid him. The next time I saw him I actually thanked him for quitting, as I would have lost triple that amount at the time, and he did me a favor in quitting.
In conclusion, I have learned quite a bit over the years. I quit gambling a long time ago, but if I ever get in a game now, I always post the money, and I always ask how long the guy can play for. If I am betting high, I want to make sure my opponent has as many barrels as I do. And I will flat out ask to see the money (if not freezing it). The only exceptions is when playing a stone cold loser that wants to hates money and NEEDS to give it away. I will still post with this type of player, but no way will I ask him when he wants to quit, or how many barrels he has. You can't do anything to possibly offend this type because you know no matter how long it takes, he will not quit until all of his money is in your pocket.
Around here we call starting a set over and raising the stakes "back up double up". What it does is take some luck out of the outcome of that particular set. At hill-hill, the outcome of the set is determined by one game. But if you start over, you have an entire set to determine the outcome. And the bet is usually doubled so in affect its like winning two sets. I ask my opponents to back up double up frequently. But, I will do it when I feel I am the favorite, and the only reason it became hill-hill is because my opponent got lucky or I got unlucky for a few games. If the situation is reversed, and I feel it is hill-hill because I got lucky during the set, I will NOT back up double up, and just finish the set out.
This is in no way quitting, or forfeiting a set, as some of you are implying.
One time my opponent and I started over without doubling the bet. The race was to 15 and we were tied hill-hill. We had a large amount of money on the line and neither one of us wanted to risk it on one single game, each of us thinking we were the best player. The money was large enough that we both knew this session was only going to be one set, winner take all. So we both agreed to restart the set at the original bet.
Regarding the quitting ahead:
I was always the type who would go with my opponent till the end. I would not quit winner, and would hang with him until he quit. When I was loser, and the winner would up and quit, of course I would get angry. But I learned who these people were that would do this and just wouldn't play them anymore.
Some of you guys think its ok to just up and quit with no preset time or dollar amount. I think it is just bad etiquette. Sure, there are no laws, or rules, but the opponents will remember and you might find you will be running out of people to play.
Also, while it can certainly make one angry, you still have to pay up even if the guy quits on you. I was playing one guy a 100/rack backpocket 10 years ago. He got up 7 games on me and then said he quits. I was ready to kill him. We argued for a while but when it was all said and done I finally paid him. The next time I saw him I actually thanked him for quitting, as I would have lost triple that amount at the time, and he did me a favor in quitting.
In conclusion, I have learned quite a bit over the years. I quit gambling a long time ago, but if I ever get in a game now, I always post the money, and I always ask how long the guy can play for. If I am betting high, I want to make sure my opponent has as many barrels as I do. And I will flat out ask to see the money (if not freezing it). The only exceptions is when playing a stone cold loser that wants to hates money and NEEDS to give it away. I will still post with this type of player, but no way will I ask him when he wants to quit, or how many barrels he has. You can't do anything to possibly offend this type because you know no matter how long it takes, he will not quit until all of his money is in your pocket.
Mystick Cue Fan said:
Hey, I like it. I think everyone has played a match without posting (it always seems the gentlemanly/friendly thing to do). Your method allows you to quickly find out if they want a chance to "get even" (which, of course, entails additional risk of loss for them) or just don't want to pay.
Ruthless said:
Ruth-man,
Seems unlikely to me. The quitter has money - he'll get played. The deadbeat on the other hand is a LOT less likely to get played in the rooms I've frequented (I guess we play different places).
Hustler's don't want you to quit while you're ahead of them.
Loser's don't want you to quit while you're ahead of them.
OHB travelled the road for a long time, and I think his opinion is certainly representative of the vast majority of players - you are only obligated to play for what you post, and what you agree on ahead of time. I would NEVER want to play with someone who thought otherwise. RIP OHB I miss you buddy.
iusedtoberich said:
How many times do you have to start over to take all of the luck out the set and have it end the way you want?
The player who accepts that bet is as dumb as the one who doubles the bet when he's way ahead, allowing his opponent a chance to win it all back by working half as hard.
If you quit gambling, what's all this gambling you're discussing in the present tense?You'll only run out of weasels and welshers to play. Big deal.